Bonner v Italy 1990

Just looking for clarification as to what Bonner was trying to do for the goal that knocked ireland out of that world cup. Did he deliberately parry the ball or did he try to catch it. I've watched a load of times today i'm still undecided.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-8ZBXsBOE8

And what about holland four years later did he try to catch it or push it away.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY5c5S8s83k

How do people rate bonner as a keeper or will he be a legend for that penalty save against romania

Holland 94 was just a bad mistake.

I think he was trying to parry it in 1990 and it just fell to Schillachi.

I thought he was a very good keeper. Unfortunately the backpass rule which cam ein circa 1992 ended his career a bit prematurely as he was very uncomfortabkle dealing with backpasses that he couldn't pick up. Still he is arguably our greatest ever keeper. his perfromance in Stuttgart stands out for me but he was consistently good.

To use a phrase used by someone more famous than I,"he was a good keeper,not a great keeper"

My feeling at the time was that he got caught in two minds between catching and parrying it and ending up palming it to Schillaci; he slipped as well which didn't help! At the 94 WC the ball swerved and he its flight; by that stage though he was well past his best.

I have a feeling Charlton was once quoted saying he picked Bonner ahead of Peyton because Bonner's kicking from hand was much better - ie he could get the ball well into the oppo's half from his own penalty area! I think that was a bit unfair - he did produce some world class performances (England at Euro 88) but he also made some mistakes.

Packie was my Hero growing up (pre-1990) and still has a special place in my heart today, In a career spanning 20 years he made 2 bad mistakes (although the power in Donadoni's shot had a lot to do with the Italy 1) unfortunately they were both in vital WC knockout games. I think his legend status has to do with a lot more than just "That Peno Save" to be fair

94 big mistake fair enough, couldnt blame him for 90 though. fierce shot and swivled a bit aswell. toto in the right place unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by prince20

To use a phrase used by someone more famous than I,"he was a good keeper,not a great keeper"

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Agree with that. He had great derfenders in front of him too

i think he was a great keeper in fairness lads. had he ever a really bad game, apart from one's mentioned ?

As i recollect, at the time of the wc '94 alan kelly would have been preferred by many fans for our no. 1 jersey. Bonner was dropped the same season by celtic i think, though they played him the last few games so to give him his chance at the wc. The mistake v holland wasnt a surprise at the time.
The general consensus was that kelly would get his chance at other tournaments...how spoilt we were then!!!
thats how i remember it, maybe im wrong.
btw: I believe our best ever keeper is still our no. 1 and thats a given...

Packie was an all time Irish hero, but ....

1. The mistake in USA 94 was dreadful (I'm sure we would have lost anyways)
2. Italia 90 was a big mistake on two counts - where the ball ended up and where he ended up. If not for that mistake who knows what might have happened?
3. (the controversial one) His reputed finest game in Stuttgart was down largely to luck. He was berated by Charlton after the game for repeatedly staying on his line and not sweeping to the edge of his box. As the second half wore on he was more and more blessed - just watch him be all over the shop for that final corner!
4. Shay Given is by far the more talanted keeper, has made more crucial saves for us and will end up (hopefully) s our most capped player.

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Originally Posted by fergalr

Packie was an all time Irish hero, but ....

1. The mistake in USA 94 was dreadful (I'm sure we would have lost anyways)
2. Italia 90 was a big mistake on two counts - where the ball ended up and where he ended up. If not for that mistake who knows what might have happened?
3. (the controversial one) His reputed finest game in Stuttgart was down largely to luck. He was berated by Charlton after the game for repeatedly staying on his line and not sweeping to the edge of his box. As the second half wore on he was more and more blessed - just watch him be all over the shop for that final corner!
4. Shay Given is by far the more talanted keeper, has made more crucial saves for us and will end up (hopefully) s our most capped player.

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Agree with almost all of that though havent watched the Stuttgart game in a while so cant comment on that. I do think Shay is the better keeper though I really think he wasted his career at Newcastle, was the top keeper in England for 2/3 years.

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Originally Posted by aidz1

As i recollect, at the time of the wc '94 alan kelly would have been preferred by many fans for our no. 1 jersey. Bonner was dropped the same season by celtic i think, though they played him the last few games so to give him his chance at the wc. The mistake v holland wasnt a surprise at the time.
The general consensus was that kelly would get his chance at other tournaments...how spoilt we were then!!!
thats how i remember it, maybe im wrong.
btw: I believe our best ever keeper is still our no. 1 and thats a given...

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According to this site

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/k.tole/...es%2093-94.PDF

He played 39 games for Celtic during 93/94 season.

I don't recall anybody suggesting Alan Kelly should have been in the team prior to the 1994 World Cup.

Packie did play behind a great defence but many commentators didn't realise that at the time.

Bonner was widely credited by the English as being the reason they did not win; at the end of the day, his job is to stop the ball getting in his goal and he did that in Stuttgart! He did flap a bit at that final corner but he pulled off some world class saves against Lineker several times earlier in the game which were not down to luck!

As to Given, I think Given is a better keeper technically but he does not have Bonner's prescence: Given needs to boss his defenders more and be more assertive. If it came to a choice between Given in his prime or Bonner in his prime it would be a tight one but I'd go for Bonner.

There was alot of talk around the time of Italia 90 about Donadoni having one of the hardest shots in the world even before we played them, so I think Bonner definately tried to parry it and was caught out by just how much power was in the shot

Hard to blame Bonner for that goal although he tended to parry a lot rather than catch which is always going to cause problems.

My memory is a bit unclear but he had a few difficult seasons at Celtic after the WC, losing his place to a pretty mediocre keeper whose neame escapes me? Was it Gordon Marshall? Anyhow After 90 he declined pretty streadily.

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Originally Posted by aidz1

As i recollect, at the time of the wc '94 alan kelly would have been preferred by many fans for our no. 1 jersey. The mistake v holland wasnt a surprise at the time.

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Agree 100%.
Kelly was the better keeper at that time and should have started.
When he fluffed Jonk's shot there was no groans or moans where I was sitting. As you said, it was no surprise.

Bonner was obviuosly superb in Stuttgart but Shay Given is without doubt the best keeper ever to play for Ireland.

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

When he fluffed Jonk's shot there was no groans or moans where I was sitting. As you said, it was no surprise.

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really??? Ive heard of exageratting to make a point but I think every Irish person on the planet moaned and goraned at that moment in time!!

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Originally Posted by Junior

really??? Ive heard of exageratting to make a point but I think every Irish person on the planet moaned and goraned at that moment in time!!

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Well the section I was in behind the goal didnt.

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Well the section I was in behind the goal didnt.

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fair enough, I was behind the goal myself - our section must have groaned extra to compensate for the 'know-it-alls' down the front:D:D

Bonner was solid with good positional sense but a limited keeper.
Kelly, Kiely and Given would be ahead of him in the ratings.

In 1990 the ball was travelling at 80 mph (my memory was that the speed was recorded with a speed gun) with a swerve, he just misjudged the flight. In '94 he was looking at where he was going to throw or kick it next.

His greatest game was against England in '88 but if you watch the full game he made a lot of handling errors early on. He got lucky against Lineker who was suffering from hepatitis (not caught from Packie though). It was still a great performance, especially the last save from the corner.

However, I'd rather a solid Packie Bonner than an erratic David James if I was centre back.