Shannon Airport Discussion

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10/08/2007, 8:46 AM
OneRedArmy

Shannon Airport Discussion

What a load of horsecrap.

The people in the West need a lesson in free market economics.

For 40 years after planes were able to fly non-stop from Dublin to the US we were forced to fly for 100 miles and scratch our holes for 90mins just to provide a load of well paid jobs in Shannon.

But the overreaction to the Aer Lingus decision is absolutely, positively ridiculous.

Taking the biscuit are the announcements by Dromoland Castle and Doonbeg that they are postponing E75m of investment because of this.

Analysing the figures, only one sixth of the passengers on the route are tourists, which equates to about 20 people on each plane, so 60 per day. Were they all going to stay in Dromoland and Doonbeg?:eek::confused:

As for the impact on business, its hard to argue it would have some impact, but listening to the local business community and representatives it would appear the whole economy of the West will disappear when these 3 flights go.

And finally, I'm loving the conspiracy theories behind the decision to move to Belfast. Despite the fact it was the privatisation of Aer Lingus that allowed this to happen, apparently it was the idea of Government and was a sop to Paisley and the price of peace in the North........:rolleyes:
10/08/2007, 9:19 AM
Macy

This is the direct result of the privatisation of Aer Lingus. You can't privatise a state asset, and then expect it to work in the interests of anyone except it's shareholders (and to do otherwise is actually against company law). The Government could've invested in the airline, as shown by SIPTU in communications from the EU, and then we'd still have a strategic asset that could work for the good of the state. However, instead we have an other purely ideological privatisation that has left the country in a worst way, same as the whole eircom debacle continues to do with broadband.

The likes of Dromoland, Doonbeg and some the yank companies now see a handy get out clause that they were looking for - "it's not our fault, blame aer lingus". IBEC and the Chambers of Commerce were quite happy when privatisation was eroding the workers terms and conditions, but are now spitting the dummy when aer lingus makes a commercial decision effecting them, hypocritical untcs.

As for the move to Belfast, Paisley suggested he knew of this several weeks ago. I don't know whether it was a Government initiative, but if it wasn't it was an extremely clever play by Mannion. The Government can't possibly pressurise Aer Lingus to reverse the decision because of the reaction in the North, so he has them in a great catch 22 - force them to reverse the decision and potentially effect the peace process, let them do it and face hassle in the mid west.

Totally the responsibility of the Government for the silly Privatisation, despite lies by spoofers like Killeen that they couldn't have done anything about it while it was in state control. Where is Ahern on the issue, and more particularly Willie O'Dea - the man who delivers for Limerick? This decision is ultimately the Governments fault for the privatisation.
10/08/2007, 10:21 AM
dahamsta

Some of the comments on the radio were comical. One lad suggested closing down Aer Lingus - he didn't elucidate on exactly how that was going to happen - and hand the entire industry over to Ryanair. And several people, including Sean Moncrief, ninnied at people that Aer Lingus isn't state-owned any more, donchaknow, kinda forgetting in the process that GOV.IE sits on the board and will have said their piece on this already. Interesting to note that they didn't have the balls to say it in public though.

There's talk of GOV.IE buying back into Eircom now, and giving away control of the MAN's in the process; this coming after the half-billion we gave back to NTR for the M50 toll road. Fianna Fail have come up with an entirely new way of flushing our hard-earned cash down the toilet: Sale And Buyback At Masked Robber Prices.

adam
10/08/2007, 10:31 AM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

What a load of horsecrap.

Agreed. Some of the stuff coming from "public representatives" is laughable.

The last time I can through Shannon I had to sit in the plane for 30 minutes during the stop-over as we were not allowed off the plane. My suspicion was that because it was 6am the guy with the key was late for work.

Shannon Airport has growth of 11% this year on a par with Dublin. Cork has 4.5%. Shannon charges landing fee per passenger of E4 but Cork & Dublin charge E7.50. Why has Shannon not pursued more custom from other airlines? If they saying the London route is busy then other airlines will surely want to run it too? Shannon has huge advantages over say Cork with lower fees & long runway that can support transatlantic flights. Shannon should be marketing itself as alternative to Dublin as it has a large catchment area & most people outside Dublin would prefer to drive to Shannon than Dublin.

:rolleyes:
10/08/2007, 12:03 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

This is the direct result of the privatisation of Aer Lingus. You can't privatise a state asset, and then expect it to work in the interests of anyone except it's shareholders (and to do otherwise is actually against company law). The Government could've invested in the airline, as shown by SIPTU in communications from the EU, and then we'd still have a strategic asset that could work for the good of the state. However, instead we have an other purely ideological privatisation that has left the country in a worst way, same as the whole eircom debacle continues to do with broadband.

That's it in a nutshell for me.

The only thing I can think of now is for the government to buy a Heathrow slot or two (maybe the ones Aer Lingus is renting out to third parties) and lease them to whoever is willing to do a Shannon-Heathrow run.
10/08/2007, 1:03 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by John83

That's it in a nutshell for me.

The only thing I can think of now is for the government to buy a Heathrow slot or two (maybe the ones Aer Lingus is renting out to third parties) and lease them to whoever is willing to do a Shannon-Heathrow run.

I'd prefer if my tax money:
a) wasn't spent owning and running airlines
b) wasn't spent artificially sustaining a relic from a bygone era (Shannon's status as large international airport).

An airport was built in Shannon when planes had to stop to refuel, not because there was any demand for anyone to get off. Every since that market disappeared it has been artificially supported.

Business travellers want to fly to Dublin, Belfast and Cork. Let the market decide.

City of Derry airport (it of sinking planes and generally unsafe practices fame) got hammered for providing illegal support to Ryanair a few years back, so I don't see why Shannon and Aer Lingus are any different.
10/08/2007, 1:20 PM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I'd prefer if my tax money:
a) wasn't spent owning and running airlines.

It was actually profitable and earning money for the taxpayer at the time of the sale, but that's beside the point really. The one's crying, especially the FF back benchers just there on the news at one, are expecting a privatised business to act like a state asset. It can't be both, and it was the FF/PD Government that privatised it with the support of IBEC, ISME, IDA, et al. It's too late for them now to be turning up for meetings pretending they're putting it up to the Cabinet.
10/08/2007, 3:43 PM
OneRedArmy

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0810/aerlingus.html

Local business reps now considering legal action......funnily enough no basis for what grounds they plan to take legal action on in the article (breach of the universal "its just not fair" rule perhaps?).

All karma for the national disgrace than was the Shannon stopover.
10/08/2007, 11:59 PM
BohsPartisan

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

The people in the West need a lesson in free market economics.

No, this is their lesson in Free Market Economics and what it means for people's lives.
11/08/2007, 8:27 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

No, this is their lesson in Free Market Economics and what it means for people's lives.

Precious little is the answer.

On the list of things that is damaging Ireland's attractiveness to FDI (high wages, high costs etc.) this isn't even on the scale.

Its being used as a convenient excuse by the business and tourism sector, allowing them to ignore the real problems with our economy.

The victim mentality in the West is even worse than in the North as well.
11/08/2007, 10:47 AM
SolitudeRed

Quote:

On the list of things that is damaging Ireland's attractiveness to FDI (high wages, high costs etc.) this isn't even on the scale.

I think I read somewhere that the Aer Lingus workers at Belfast International (which is actually about 15 miles outside of Belfast!) will be paid less than Aer Lingus employees in the South!
11/08/2007, 12:58 PM
Lionel Ritchie

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolitudeRed

I think I read somewhere that the Aer Lingus workers at Belfast International (which is actually about 15 miles outside of Belfast!) will be paid less than Aer Lingus employees in the South!

Hmmm ...I'm guessing you must be displaying another manifestation of the northern "victim mentality" ORA was referring to. ;)
11/08/2007, 8:30 PM
bennocelt

the RTE reporter asked the FF local reps if they were willing to resign over this...............of course they werent,
but christ i was shocked at the question, didnt think anyone in RTe would ask a good question like that:)

didnt the people in Shannon ever hear about a free market economy?:rolleyes:
12/08/2007, 12:14 AM
Lim till i die

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

The victim mentality in the West is even worse than in the North as well.

LMAO

The idea of a Northerner coming on giving out about the West being subsidised :D
12/08/2007, 5:00 PM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I'd prefer if my tax money:
a) wasn't spent owning and running airlines
b) wasn't spent artificially sustaining a relic from a bygone era (Shannon's status as large international airport).

An airport was built in Shannon when planes had to stop to refuel, not because there was any demand for anyone to get off. Every since that market disappeared it has been artificially supported.

Business travellers want to fly to Dublin, Belfast and Cork. Let the market decide.

City of Derry airport (it of sinking planes and generally unsafe practices fame) got hammered for providing illegal support to Ryanair a few years back, so I don't see why Shannon and Aer Lingus are any different.

Where do you pay your taxes.
12/08/2007, 9:42 PM
blackholesun

If it cant stand on its two feet, let it rot! It has been subsidised and proped up via stopover joke for far too long.

FFS the hysteria on this issue is beyond belief, youd think the whole place was being closed down!

bhs
12/08/2007, 10:06 PM
Bald Student

If the Belfast route is more profitable it's because more people want to travel on it. Capitalism and privatisation are serving the greater good where a state controlled enterprise would not have.
12/08/2007, 11:10 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Where do you pay your taxes.

To the Revenue Commissioners.
12/08/2007, 11:30 PM
NeilMcD

Which ones.
13/08/2007, 12:04 AM
eamo1

the word is "Feasability".

(hope i spelled that word right).anyway,i always thought that it makes better sense to extend the runway in cork for transatlantic flights and also possibly Galway airport where they are extending it for jets already-although only for jets to go to southern and central europe,not yet for transatlantic but i can always dream.

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