Can Shels get a License? / Shelbourne €10 Million in Debt

In light of Shels recently documented difficulties (and thats putting it mildly!!!- no players, no manager and still mounting debt) would it still be possible for them to obtain a Uefa and also permier license?

Picture this for a hypothetical scenario. Shels get more money off the property developer who has agreed to buy Tolka. This cash clears debts to players and the taxman. The FAI can then say "they have no debts so here's your license". However I thought licensing was supposed to be a lot more in depth than this? Surely one of the reasons that Limerick didn't get one and that Waterford and Dundalk were relegated and Galway were promoted was becuase Galway had a realistic plan with demonstrable cash flows to show how they intended to finance a squad in the premier division next season.

So in light of that, even if Shels do clear their debts it's obvious to anyone that they have no plan whatsoever for the future and that even Waterford or Dundalk could make a stronger case than them for inclusion in the premier?

And that's not evn bringin up the whole UEFA license?

Your thoughts please?

Shels application for a license made in October/November needs to be scrutinised.

I can't see how it could have been truthful as they were awarded a Premier license. Seems bizarre given their financial situation.

I think there is a really possibility of Shels either having their license revoked or beginning the season with a points deduction. As for their European license......

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Originally Posted by Banner

In light of Shels recently documented difficulties (and thats putting it mildly!!!- no players, no manager and still mounting debt) would it still be possible for them to obtain a Uefa and also permier license?

Picture this for a hypothetical scenario. Shels get more money off the property developer who has agreed to buy Tolka. This cash clears debts to players and the taxman. The FAI can then say "they have no debts so here's your license". However I thought licensing was supposed to be a lot more in depth than this? Surely one of the reasons that Limerick didn't get one and that Waterford and Dundalk were relegated and Galway were promoted was becuase Galway had a realistic plan with demonstrable cash flows to show how they intended to finance a squad in the premier division next season.

So in light of that, even if Shels do clear their debts it's obvious to anyone that they have no plan whatsoever for the future and that even Waterford or Dundalk could make a stronger case than them for inclusion in the premier?

And that's not evn bringin up the whole UEFA license?

Your thoughts please?

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Even if they do get windfall funding from somewhere, there's only a couple of days left in the transfer window. With no coaching staff it would be a brave/foolish footballer who signed for them before the deadline. So what are their options then - try and pick through whoever's left from the out-of-contract list:confused:

http://www.pfai.ie/index.php?mod=one...15f49f8d45de93

Christ so the FAI dont even need to Fudge they have it already!!! I assume the logic is that at the time the license was awarded they were debt free?

Can someone answer me this question though? Can you be given a premier license if you have outstanding debts to players? I thught this was one of the criteria? Am I wrong? becuase Shels surely must have had debts to players back in October November when they got their license.

Dundalk weren't relegated.

The UEFA licenses aren't issued until March, so they at least have some time there.

They should be asked to provide evidence now that they can meet the requirements of an FAI Premier license. If they can't, they should be relegated.

I'm certain one of the criteria for the license was that no club could owe money to another club in respect of transfer fees. Shels owe Longford money for Sean Dillon. I'm sure pineapple stu could point out the many other ways in which they fail the criteria but I was under the impression the outstanding transfer fees point was a major one. There is no way they should have received one for next season, and everybody in the FAI knows this.

I don't think anything will happen as it would be too embarressing for the FAI to deny the league winners a place in the league, and europe. Don't forget, or course, there are substantial financial benefits for clubs entering the CL, even if they do so with an u18 side. If Shels are allowed play in europe, they effectively got off scott free

I have to say If Shels are allowed compete in Europe its a complete disgrace.

Can you imagine the barstoolers and journo's glee when Shels Select shcools 11 get thumped 12 nil on aggregate by some coal miners from Uzbekistan. It actually makes me pretty god damned angry just thinking about it.

And this is in the bright new dawn of the league merged with the FAI?????

The more things change.....

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I'm certain one of the criteria for the license was that no club could owe money to another club in respect of transfer fees. Shels owe Longford money for Sean Dillon. I'm sure pineapple stu could point out the many other ways in which they fail the criteria but I was under the impression the outstanding transfer fees point was a major one. There is no way they should have received one for next season, and everybody in the FAI knows this.

I don't think anything will happen as it would be too embarressing for the FAI to deny the league winners a place in the league, and europe. Don't forget, or course, there are substantial financial benefits for clubs entering the CL, even if they do so with an u18 side. If Shels are allowed play in europe, they effectively got off scott free

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That's the problem here. We are going to face another season with admin problems if their is no action - something has to be addressed by the FAI before the start of the season in regards to Shels. If Delaney doesn't do something he should resign. The promised us a well run league - it's now up to them to delver. Are the FAI going to sit back and watch another Dublin City scenario? It looks like Shels couldn't afford the bus fare to Cork and Derry. It's time for the FAI to get a set of balls and do something about this situation.

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Originally Posted by Banner

Can you imagine the barstoolers and journo's glee when Shels Select shcools 11 get thumped 12 nil on aggregate by some coal miners from Uzbekistan.

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You do know Uzbekistan is in Asia and not part of UEFA, right?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I don't think anything will happen

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Wrong, Delaney has already begun cracking down on the feckless hacks who are making the FAI's tough job even more difficult. That and the concentrated efforts to rid the sport of "the scourge of hooliganism" plus the painstaking attempts to convince greyhound racing fans that LOI football is exactly the same thing. We couldn't be in safer hands.....

KOH

Shels were granted a premier division license on the 4th December 2006 to allow them to appear in the league in the 2007 season.http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/1204/licence.html

According to the FAI club licensing manual For FAI National League Season 2007 and UEFA Club Competitions Season 2007/2008 http://fai.ie/pdf/FAI_Club_Licensing_Manual_2007.pdf

to be awarded a license a club must (among many other things) have the following

- a team manger
- a tax clearance cert, valid for the date the application is made
- audited financial statements
- NO PAYABLE OVERDUE FROM TRANSFER ACTIVITIES
- NO PAYABLE OVERDUE TOWARDS EMPLOYEES
- future financial information covering the next season including, a budget profit & loss a/c, a budgeted cash flow statement plus others.
- Salary Cost Protocol
The licence applicant must supply information, which may be included as part of monthly management account reporting, in respect of the
Salary Cost Protocol. The Protocol requires clubs to spend a maximum of 65% of turnover on player salaries and wages in 2007. The Club
Licensing Department will work closely with all clubs to assist in the compliance of this criterion during 2007 to ensure that each club is fully
prepared for the criterion to be implemented in full in 2008 when strict sanctions will be applied if the protocol is breached.


Given all that I don't know how the **** Shels were awarded a prem license on the 4th December

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Originally Posted by charliesboots

to be awarded a license a club must (among many other things) have the following

- a team manger

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Does it have to have mary joseph and jesus in it....I think they could only afford Jesus :D ]

Was this before or after Fenlon left?

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Originally Posted by charliesboots

Given all that I don't know how the **** Shels were awarded a prem license on the 4th December

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John Delaney is in fact Ollie Byrne........make up can do wonders these days

team manager, assistant manager and various other backroom staff are part of the criteria - you can however be given dispensation if you give an undertaking to have them in place by the beginning of the season. I just put it on the list for the craic tbh.

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Originally Posted by charliesboots

you can however be given dispensation if you give an undertaking to have them in place by the beginning of the season.

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So in fact you cannot actually fail that criterion?:confused:

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

So in fact you cannot actually fail that criterion?:confused:

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Unless you dont have them in place by the start of the season....I presume then youre license can be revoked

"You do know Uzbekistan is in Asia and not part of UEFA, right?"

Yep I was only using poetic license to highlight the fact that as things stand just about any team will hammer Shels to the embarrasment of all LOI supporters.

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Originally Posted by charliesboots

- NO PAYABLE OVERDUE TOWARDS EMPLOYEES

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OK, so at the very least this bit has been proved legally following an appeal by Ollie that was rejected, right? Surely blows any remaining trace of credibility out of the water:confused:

A disgruntled hack should really run an exposé on the Shelbourne license - might get Delaney to put a little criticism at an awards p!ss-up into perspective?

If this was a freak occurrence that they nobody could possibly have seen coming then, maybe, you could cut them a little slack:rolleyes: - coming one year after a club that was granted a license could not fulfill it's fixtures surely someone at the top has to be held accountable (and not by being given a 6-year extension to their contract).

If Platini has his way Shels would be relegated.
He said ..." he supported automatic relegation for clubs who are unable to pay their debts, no matter how powerful they are.
"It can't be right that some clubs in some countries get relegated for being heavily in debt while others can go on and win the Champions League," he said.

Does the Shels situation mean that they were lying in their presentation to the IAG or was the IAG incompetent in their investigation of each clubs application.

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Originally Posted by Jamjar

Does the Shels situation mean that they were lying in their presentation to the IAG or was the IAG incompetent in their investigation of each clubs application.

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To be fair, Shels got a low (possible the lowest?) mark from the IAG.

I see a date in March (after the season has started) being quoted in the papers as the next UEFA License deadline. My reading of this is that the FAI are stalling for time hoping that the problem solves itself or, failing that, the season has already started so it would be too difficult to relegate Shels.

Surely there is something fishy with Shels application for a licence.
Considering Rovers were deducted 8 points in 2005 for discrepancies pointed out to the FAI then surely Shels should lose their licence and be docked points if not relegated too.
Indeed surel replacing them with Dundalk or Waterford would make sense if the FAI want to get more provincial teams into the top tier.