Supporting your rivals?

posted this on another site may as well post it here as its purely EL

I still dont get this, as seen here most EL fans are supporting the El teams in Europe some for their own ends(coefficents) but mostly supporting the EL in Europe as sort of brotherhood.

I for one could never ever ever want teams Pats play against weekly to win tosses let alone matches, now maybe im just a bitter old Pats fan but i have never seen a Man Utd/Celtic/Arsenal fan cheer for Pool/Rangers/Spurs or any fan in any league want their rivals to win for the benefit of the league.

Now sometimes as a football fan you just want certain teams to win in certain games ie Pool/Utd Cl finals and if anyone ever watches a match on TV they always find themselves hoping the underdog wins if their team isnt playing. But can you hope the teams you play every week win? Its just wrong.

Regardless of EL/PL/SPL can you ever really support your rivals? I mean we play Derry away on sunday i was secretly hoping for some key injuries But i am supposed to as Pats fan.

In my opinion El fans supporting each other in Europe is kind off seen as a group of people shouting "see we not ****". As some way to say to the EL naysayers as a 2 fingers up gesture. But thats just my opinion on the subject not actual fact.

kdjac

I really, really hate Drogheda. I despise the place! If they can improve our co-efficient however, then fair play to them! I will be cheering them on in two weeks time.

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

I really, really hate Drogheda. I despise the place! If they can improve our co-efficient however, then fair play to them! I will be cheering them on in two weeks time.

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Bah you had the spirit then went with the coefficent thing :(


kdjac

I just support any Irish team playing in Europe as they our representing our country and league in European competition. It would kill me to see any eL team take a hammering in Europe as I feel it gives the barstoolers a chance to criticise the league even more.

To be honest, I choose the sides who I want to win in Europe. Circumstances go a long way to dictating who I would shout for as a neutral or not. Case in point would be Derry and Drogheda this year. The football romantasist in me dictates that I will support them in Europe, albeit Derry from a distance, although I will be at Dalyer for Drogheda's 2nd leg match. I was disappointed that Cork were turned over by Red Star Belgrade (Zvezda) and would have been happy to see them progress.

As much as anything I can pick particular reasons for hoping these teams do well -
Derry, great support, play good football, great support.
Drogheda, first time in Europe in ages, the way they came back in the last round.
Cork, because I like the city and the best place in Ireland to go for the women!!!

But the overriding thing which makes it easy to 'support' these sides in Europe is so that I can go into work the next day and tell all the arseholes who I work with, that the eL isn't exactly the ****hole they all believe it is just because they are stupid enough to allow Rupert Murdoch forcefeed them corporate football. Let nobody else tell you otherwise, but at least eL football is real and the likes of Derry, Drogheda and Cork doing well in Europe does give kudos to our league. Coefficients obviously important.

Us eL lot are very much in the minority in this country and if it came down to it, I would even defend a Rovers supporter before any EPL/SPL goon who saves his hard earned to go to see one game a year and thinks that that is what supporting your team is all about - that and spending the rest of his sterling filling his Man U Superstore bag with goodies he can come home and compare to the size of his underinflated penis. There are too many of them who I believe really are not interested in football at all. What they are interested in is being 'part of a popular culture' that they have been told is 'cool' by the people who run our world because it looks cool and gives them something to talk about in the pub because they are that inverted they have little else to discuss - "We're gonna kick your ass in the Charity shield you Liverpool scummer" "No your not you feckin' pensioner" - idiots! - when the only people that benefit from the whole episode are the fat cats sitting behind the corporations [Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Celtic, Arsenal, etc etc) creaming every cent they can get their hands on to the utter detriment of the grassroots game that gives football its heart, its lungs and its soul.
*steps down off soapbox*

*steps up on soapbox*
GODDAMIT!!!
*steps down off soapbox*

On the other hand, I seriously cannot shout for Shelbourne when it comes to any game. Europe or otherwise. To me, they are everything that is wrong about football in this country and they can (and do) thank Oily Byrne for that. Some will say that's just bitterness in me, but hey - do I give a sh!t?

I'd have to agree with Mr. Thompson's comment...I've often felt most barstoolers don't even like football. I have to say I will always cheer for an Irish team in Europe. It's probably as simple as I'm Irish, they're Irish, and they're representing our league on a bigger stage. To a large degree our 21 clubs are a pretty homogenous bunch, with geography being the only distinguishing factor...I don't see the supporters of rival teams as a different breed. There's no political or ethnic base driving these clubs on...thank Christ. You look at the likes of England, Spain, Italy or Germany...and they're all big countries...they can sustain wider ranging rivalries...be this a good or bad thing.

The english clubs you mentioned are in a different situation than us as they are in a good position when entering europe while our own league is still way down the table in comparision. So, it is vital for all eircom league teams to do well in europe as this will eventually help our own clubs when they reach europe (like Grethna, they entered there first year in europe at a later stage due to the success of the other clubs in the league) and play proper opposition. If Derry, Drogs or whoever it may be get on very well in europe and bring the EL co-efficient up, so when/if GUFC enter europe in the coming years there first match is against higher level opposition than what we are meeting at the moment in the first qualifling rounds!!!!

It´s not uncommon that EPL fans cheer for another EPL team if they reach finals etc..At some point it becomes a matter of nationality as well. Not for everyone though.

Minor league fans tend to support each other regardless of rivalries, I´ve been to games i Turkey, Greece, Belgium, Denmark and Sweden and generally the support was boosted by fans of other teams as well.

Its simple for me, I want the league to do well, I want my team to do well, but if my team is not competing in a competition, then I want our "representive" to do well, both for the raising of the profile of the league and the standing in Europe. The reason Utd don't shout for Liverpool etc,is probably because they are all solid players on the European level and don't see the other teams win as improving the league status as its already massively popular and ranked highly. Your own team cannot dig the league out of the European ranking hole we were in. We need a collective effort and hence why people support the other teams as well as I'd rather see my local rival win then some random euro team that annoy the pants off ye on our forums saying we are all useless pub teams ....

Teams I'd never support in Europe (in order of how much I hate them); Shels, Bohs, Shamrock, Dundalk, Cork.

Teams I'd support in europe; None

In saying that when Derry scored the other night I let out a little "yes!" but like you kdjac I was hoping for a tight game so they'd concentrate on the 2nd leg. I'm not sure I was supporting Derry but they just played so damn well, they fully deserved it and the goals were excellent. I'm fairly sure that it did reflect well on our league. Not sure how it'll affect Pats though.

I can undersand those who say our league is too small and we need to stick together but IMO european games do not have the effect some here think. Shels had 25,000 at a Euro game two years ago and performed admirably gaining a draw with one of europe's top clubs (at the time). Within a week they had less than a thousand at a game and within 2 years they had a winding up order thrown at them. Has Shels euro exploits helped them grow? Has it ****, has it helped the league boost attendances, nope...

I get so ****ed off with people thinking that european progression is the only marker by which to rank the league. I would much rather see a league with every premier game getting 3-5K at it, with decent media coverage and strong backing from the FAI. IMO the league (including clubs) should be trying to sort out facilities and marketing before they even attempt to progress in europe. Yes Media coverage after big euro wins (or draws in Shels case) helps but if it goes back to the side columns for the legaue games, whats the point?

Also can any Bohs/Rovers or particularly Pats fans not say they laughed for 30 minutes solid when the Maltesers beat Shels a couple of years ago? Short term might've affected barstoolers but ask any non LOI fan and none of them will remember it now.

Any League Of Ireland team whom is playing in Europe get my full support ...Derry winning 5-1 the other night I was estatic .(I wished I was there).

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I get so ****ed off with people thinking that european progression is the only marker by which to rank the league. I would much rather see a league with every premier game getting 3-5K at it, with decent media coverage and strong backing from the FAI. IMO the league (including clubs) should be trying to sort out facilities and marketing before they even attempt to progress in europe. Yes Media coverage after big euro wins (or draws in Shels case) helps but if it goes back to the side columns for the legaue games, whats the point?

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I agree with this bit 100%. Would much rather an all round stronger league with bigger crowds at every match then just your 25,000 showing up for 1 big game then teams doing well in Europe.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I get so ****ed off with people thinking that european progression is the only marker by which to rank the league. I would much rather see a league with every premier game getting 3-5K at it, with decent media coverage and strong backing from the FAI. IMO the league (including clubs) should be trying to sort out facilities and marketing before they even attempt to progress in europe. Yes Media coverage after big euro wins (or draws in Shels case) helps but if it goes back to the side columns for the legaue games, whats the point?

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Spot on.
Europe is the icing, but coverage is simplistic and always has it as the main event.

Don't know how any fan can cheer on another team. Why would I be happy if Derry or Drogs get into the Uefa group stages and rake the cash in make my team even more uncompetitive. What if say Shels get into the CL group stages, the league could go ala Norway with one team winning everything due to the amounts of cash on offer.

Plain and simple I want Bohs to do well, in the league for a start. If teams do well in Europe, fair play to them, it improves the co-efficient and that but i would never cheer them on purely for selfish domestic issues.

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Originally Posted by chippie0001

Don't know how any fan can cheer on another team. Why would I be happy if Derry or Drogs get into the Uefa group stages and rake the cash in make my team even more uncompetitive. What if say Shels get into the CL group stages, the league could go ala Norway with one team winning everything due to the amounts of cash on offer.

Plain and simple I want Bohs to do well, in the league for a start. If teams do well in Europe, fair play to them, it improves the co-efficient and that but i would never cheer them on purely for selfish domestic issues.

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You don´t mean Vålerenga I take it..? Champions last season.. :p

People can support or not support anyone they want. I would not criticise eL supporters for not supporting other eL sides in Europe.

I pick and choose the games i support shels in but would support any other eL short of an chance to get to the CL group stages as too much financially to gain. IMO Uefa Cup Group Stages are fine as not too much money to make from.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Also can any Bohs/Rovers or particularly Pats fans not say they laughed for 30 minutes solid when the Maltesers beat Shels a couple of years ago?

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Does jumping out of your chair, spilling your dinner and going "Yesssss!" count? Chukinyere ár lá! :D

Apart from them, I'm OK with Irish teams doing well and would sooner see them win than lose. Same with the international team. I wouldn't go as far as calling it support though - more an "ah yeah" thing. I still think you can only support one team, if you define support as getting wound up, passionate and obsessive. Anything else is just footballing bigamy.

One other thing about Cork, Derry and Drogheda's progress is that it let's outsiders know we've a proper national League here, not just a couple of Dublin teams that they'd've already have heard of.

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Originally Posted by kdjaC

Now sometimes as a football fan you just want certain teams to win in certain games ie Pool/Utd Cl finals and if anyone ever watches a match on TV they always find themselves hoping the underdog wins if their team isnt playing. But can you hope the teams you play every week win? Its just wrong.

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EL teams are nearly always the underdog anyway so that's one reason why I support them. The other reasons are covered in CharlesThompsons post above. Good post.:ball:

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Originally Posted by ccfcgirl

Any League Of Ireland team whom is playing in Europe get my full support ...Derry winning 5-1 the other night I was estatic .(I wished I was there).

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i was there.. brilliant game, great support for derry and well worth the trip...

i counted 4 shels, 1 rovers, 2 bohs and 3 bray fans at the match.

any irish team in europe gets my support simply because their irish.

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Originally Posted by CharlesThompson

But the overriding thing which makes it easy to 'support' these sides in Europe is so that I can go into work the next day and tell all the arseholes who I work with, that the eL isn't exactly the ****hole they all believe it is just because they are stupid enough to allow Rupert Murdoch forcefeed them corporate football. Let nobody else tell you otherwise, but at least eL football is real and............................................... .........................................I would even defend a Rovers supporter before any EPL/SPL goon who saves his hard earned to go to see one game a year and thinks that that is what supporting your team is all about - that and spending the rest of his sterling filling his Man U Superstore bag with goodies he can come home and compare to the size of his underinflated penis. There are too many of them who I believe really are not interested in football at all. What they are interested in is being 'part of a popular culture' that they have been told is 'cool' by the people who run our world because it looks cool and gives them something to talk about in the pub because they are that inverted they have little else to discuss - "We're gonna kick your ass in the Charity shield you Liverpool scummer" "No your not you feckin' pensioner" - idiots! - when the only people that benefit from the whole episode are the fat cats sitting behind the corporations [Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Celtic, Arsenal, etc etc) creaming every cent they can get their hands on to the utter detriment of the grassroots game that gives football its heart, its lungs and its soul.

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Firstly, that's a great synopsis of everything that's WRONG with EL fans. Barstoolers this, barstoolers that.......fascinated with them :rolleyes: Not just you Charles, every second poster on foot seems to have this disease. Everything seems to be geared towards giving two fingers to the barstoolers and proving them wrong. It's sad and pathetic IMO. Do you know why? 'Cos the barstoolers don't give a sh!t! If they did they'd be going to LOI games in the first place. EL fans should be concentrating on the EL and forgetting about the barstoolers. Stop trying to justify the EL to those who aren't interested. Instead of proudly rejoicing Derry's win, all you see/hear is 'fcuk the barstoolers, that'll show 'em now'. They don't even care! It reminds me of Pat Spillane on the Sunday game, especially after a good match, always having to refer to Hurling/Pukeball as superior to soccer/rugby/he even mentioned formula 1 on one occasion - "You wouldn't see soccer players putting in the skill levels on show today Tomás?"......as I said, it smacks of pure pathetic......

Secondly, it's possible to be a passionate fan of clubs in two different leagues, ie. being an EL fan and an EPL/SPL/SeriaA/La Liga. A lot of fans on here like that, including myself with Limerick FC/Liverpool.

Thirdly, Liverpool FC is not a corporation. I'm pretty sure Arsenal the same.

Finally, I would support any Irish team in Europe as I want Irish football to earn respect and for the EL to earn the respect of football fans in this country. Unfortunately for Limerick FC most of our historical rivals are up in the EL premier and we haven't clashed with them regularly for a long while now, so no problems supporting them in Europe. Hopefully the shoe will be on the other foot some day :o