Germans = Overrated

With the dust settling now on the WC and the eyes of the nation looking to forward to the Euro qualifiers thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth on our chances in Germany...

Basically it needn't be all doom and gloom for Stuttgart cause I honestly believe that the Germans flattered to deceive in this World Cup:

Starting with the defence:
Lehmann is ok but still liable to a few clangers and he ain't getting any younger, CB's Mertezacher (sp??) and Metzelder well known to be dodgy - let Keane and Doyle have free run at these guys and we could get some joy, Lahm is handy enough but is nowhere near as good as people crack him up to be - has absolutely no left foot for a left-full and always has to cut inside,Finnan will have him in his pocket going forward...Can't even remember who the RB is!!!

In Midfield, for Lahm read Schweinsteiger - Often flatters to deceive and again has no left foot for a left winger - very overrated. Frings = plodder, nothing to fear there. Ballack - obviously class but am hoping the Chelsea factor kicks in and he loses some of his attacking spark. Schneider is a distinctly average player that offer no kind of attacking threat for a winger, no worries there...

Its up front that we should be a wee bit worried. Klose has proven his class and is the main threat in this German side, if Richie Dunne keeps him quiet then I fancy us getting a clean sheet...
I'm unsure about Podolski, sometimes he looks very lively and dangerous but has a tendency to drift in and out of the game...

Obviously I'm really just basing this on watching them during the WC but, along with Klinnsmann leaving, I think that they may be there for the taking...provided we put in a performance on par with France away in '04...


Feel free to comment/ridicule as necessary:)

I agree. I wouldn't fear them. If we get our attitude right and go for the win I think we can do it.

I agree that the Germans are overrated and the fact they were hosts gave them a bit of a boost. Costa Rica showed up the German defence in the first match and the midfield gave the CBs more cover after than. I was particularly impressed by Lahm though. I thought he had a huge tournament both defensively and going forward. Playing a right-footed player on the left (or vice versa) does not necessarily rule them out as an attacking force. Schweinsteiger played a stormer against Portugal and bagged a couple of goals into the bargain. If memory serves we've used Duff on the right (v Spain in WC2002) to great effect. I reckon Odonkor will be given the nod ahead of Schneider on the right and his pace could cause us big problems, particularly if Harte is at left back. I'm not saying Harte isn't an option, it's just that his lack of pace would be exposed. I agree completely about Klose and Podolski. The aspect I most fear is the solidity of the German midfield; with players like Ballack, Kehl, Borowski, etc. to choose from, they have far better options than us at present.

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Originally Posted by Over the post

I agree that the Germans are overrated and the fact they were hosts gave them a bit of a boost. Costa Rica showed up the German defence in the first match and the midfield gave the CBs more cover after than. I was particularly impressed by Lahm though. I thought he had a huge tournament both defensively and going forward. Playing a right-footed player on the left (or vice versa) does not necessarily rule them out as an attacking force. Schweinsteiger played a stormer against Portugal and bagged a couple of goals into the bargain. If memory serves we've used Duff on the right (v Spain in WC2002) to great effect. I reckon Odonkor will be given the nod ahead of Schneider on the right and his pace could cause us big problems, particularly if Harte is at left back. I'm not saying Harte isn't an option, it's just that his lack of pace would be exposed. I agree completely about Klose and Podolski. The aspect I most fear is the solidity of the German midfield; with players like Ballack, Kehl, Borowski, etc. to choose from, they have far better options than us at present.

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Agreed on Odonkor, his pace would be a bit of a worry for Harte/Kilbane/O'Shea...final ball lacking though?
As for Schweinsteiger/Lahm, I watched all of Germany's matches and as soon as defenders copped that they were turning inside the whole time and started showing them the wing they became very predictable and ended up passing backwards....I really think if we have a rhs of Finnan and Carr we should be able to keep both of them fairly subdued...

okonkor more of an impact player i reckon , if schneider doesn't retire then he should start , right back is friedrich , muck imo , an on-form duff would take him to the cleaners , schweinsteiger had a poor world cup which will be glossed over due to his performance in the 3rd place game when the pressure was off. germany beat a poor costa rica , struggled against the poles , hammered an ecuador who had already qualified and rested players , beat sweden who should have pulled one back with that peno. they did well against italy and argentina but if crespo had pounced on that dodgy infield ball by lahm it would have been all so different .
In short , we should have nothing to fear. It's time we re-established ourselves.

The squad is gonna be different. Friedrich hopefully and most likely will be replaced. Taking only one true right back to the WC was a mistake, but we have options there with Lahm (put Jansen at LB), Owomoyela and Andreas Hinkel. Odonkor has pace and passion, but not much else. He´s a sub for now, especially as he can´t cross to save his life. Schneider is fine and most likely won´t retire until 2008. Frings is a lot more than a plodder (3g, 7a last season) ....

Injuries withstanding, I think Stefan Kiessling will be in the squad. I hope Germany and Ireland both qualify.

Germany were immense at the world cup - defying all expectations.

.....but the world cup factor will have died out in a few weeks and they could possibly be caught with a hangover after the party.....our only hope of catching them on the hop.

Ireland being Ireland though....best we can ever get against a top ranked team will be a draw away

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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba

Agreed on Odonkor, his pace would be a bit of a worry for Harte/Kilbane/O'Shea...final ball lacking though?
As for Schweinsteiger/Lahm, I watched all of Germany's matches and as soon as defenders copped that they were turning inside the whole time and started showing them the wing they became very predictable and ended up passing backwards....I really think if we have a rhs of Finnan and Carr we should be able to keep both of them fairly subdued...

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It amazes me that if Germany are so distinctly average with so many predictable and average to poor players how they almost succeeded in winning the World Cup playing against and beating some of the best teams in the world.

Optimism is all very well but some of the comments here are bordering on pure fantasy. We'll be very, very lucky to get a draw against Germany in September full stop. For all their supposedly average players only Duff and Given (possibly Finnan) would get a look into their first eleven if all our players were German (or Poles as the case may be).

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Originally Posted by youngirish

It amazes me that if Germany are so distinctly average with so many predictable and average to poor players how they almost succeeded in winning the World Cup playing against and beating some of the best teams in the world.

Optimism is all very well but some of the comments here are bordering on pure fantasy. We'll be very, very lucky to get a draw against Germany in September full stop. For all their supposedly average players only Duff and Given (possibly Finnan) would get a look into their first eleven if all our players were German (or Poles as the case may be).

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They got to the final in 2002 and we drew with them then with a team that included the likes of an ageing Staunton,Breen, Harte, Kilbane and Kelly as wingers and a central midfield of Kinsella and Holland. I think we have a better defence, better wingers in Duff, McGeady, and pace and attacking options from the bench then the team that played in the 2002 WC.
So in short I don't think it is pure fantasy for us to go into this game with a bit of optimism. Remember we only narrowly lost out to the WC finalists in qualifying.

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Originally Posted by colster

They got to the final in 2002 and we drew with them then with a team that included the likes of an ageing Staunton,Breen, Harte, Kilbane and Kelly as wingers and a central midfield of Kinsella and Holland. I think we have a better defence, better wingers in Duff, McGeady, and pace and attacking options from the bench then the team that played in the 2002 WC.
So in short I don't think it is pure fantasy for us to go into this game with a bit of optimism. Remember we only narrowly lost out to the WC finalists in qualifying.

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The current German team is totally different to the team we had in 2002 from top to bottom. Klinsmann has given the team a whole new philosophy .... and as Löw used to be his assistant that is not going to change. The changes he made had been long overdue.

I think the main thing we have to worry about is how to handle Klose and Podolski.
Is Stan going to start with Richard Dunne and O'Brien and will they be able to cope?
The Germans scored a lot of goals in this world cup and the goals came from a lot of different areas.It's hard to see us keeping a clean sheet over there so hopefully Keane and Doyler can do the business up front.

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Originally Posted by DotTV

I think the main thing we have to worry about is how to handle Klose and Podolski.
Is Stan going to start with Richard Dunne and O'Brien and will they be able to cope?
The Germans scored a lot of goals in this world cup and the goals came from a lot of different areas.It's hard to see us keeping a clean sheet over there so hopefully Keane and Doyler can do the business up front.

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Who were the goals scored against? Costa Rica (4), Ecuador (3) and Portugal (3), Sweden (2). Apart from Portugal I wouldn't class the other 3 as being good teams or having great defences. The Portugal game was practically a friendly game anyway.

They all qualified for the world cup and we didn't.
OK.I'll take your point on Costa Rica and Ecuador but they did get six goals against European opposition.

Far from overated imo.. Could have made the final with a bit more luck . Should the question not be are we not overated in regards to some opinions on here !

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Originally Posted by DotTV

They all qualified for the world cup and we didn't.
OK.I'll take your point on Costa Rica and Ecuador but they did get six goals against European opposition.

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We didn´t qualify ... technically :)

What a Stupid thread, The Germans brand of fast attacking football made them the one of the best sides in the World Cup, they were good to watch and will cause us a World of Pain in stuttgart if they maintain the same momentum, Judging by this Forum i can clearly see despite our dismal failures the rosr tinted glasses have not gone away,, remember our midfield is as weak as water!

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Originally Posted by youngirish

It amazes me that if Germany are so distinctly average with so many predictable and average to poor players how they almost succeeded in winning the World Cup playing against and beating some of the best teams in the world.

Optimism is all very well but some of the comments here are bordering on pure fantasy. We'll be very, very lucky to get a draw against Germany in September full stop. For all their supposedly average players only Duff and Given (possibly Finnan) would get a look into their first eleven if all our players were German (or Poles as the case may be).

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Agreed, and for the record I don't think Duff would get in their squad. Hasn't played consistently well in over a year. Finnan and Given would get in, thats it

In a way, this reminds me of the debate about the Kerry GAA team every year. They're overrated, they're plain rubbish, players not good enough, manager rubbish, etc, etc. But yet every year they get to the final stages and generally make it difficult for those that manage to beat them. The Germans got beat in the final in 2002 with what was supposedly a very weak German team. They play excellently to knock out the tournament favourites and could have gotten to the final with a bit of luck.

I don't think they're overrated as they don't receive the hype that the likes of Argentina, Brazil or Spain do. They'll be difficult to beat but like all the teams at the World Cup proved (except Italy), no team is unbeatable.

Watch thos Blasphemous words Donal81, or I'll send the Bomber Liston round after ya!

Germany are a fine side with a central midfield we'd kill for. Overrated? No, I don't think so. I think it's accepted that they played beyond expectations and probably only got to the SF because Argentina let them off the hook.

But, as always, I think we're capable of a result against anyone on any given day. In fact I think we play better against better teams. It was the same story in Amsterdam. Nobody gave us a chance against arguably the best side in Euro 2000 but we played out of our skins and should have won.

I'm really hoping we have our key players fit and especially, for the first time in years, a fully match fit forward line. At no stage in the last campaign were either Morrisson or Robbie fully fit. Both only got their seasons started after we were eliminated. Elliott had barely been tried & Doyle was still only finding his feet in England. If everyone's fit & on form, and the management team gets the preparations right, including getting the right mindset into the team, then we can give it a real go.

I think we'll have a huge support out there too which will count.

Given, Finnan & Duff are as good as anyone in Germany's team if not better. I'd have Robbie Keane in the form he showed for Spurs in 2006 ahead of Podolski. Mertesecker and Metzelder aren't impregnable by any means & I think Dunne & O'Brien could turn into a fine pairing for us if they keep their concentration. Personally I'd pick Carr RHM & KK at LB for solidity & experience and each can add to our attacking threat on the flanks.

I think it'll hinge on whether Reid & O'Shea can hold their own in midfield & whether Dunne & O'Brien can play a strong, error free game. In fact Steven Reid might even be a surprise for the Germans.

I sincerely hope that Stan & Sir Bobby add some set-piece threat to our armoury.

In reality we'll be second favourites but not overwhelmingly. Don't tell me second favourites never get resuts in football.