16-18 Team Premier Division

Looking at the unofficial attendances for the 1st division i have to wonder if some clubs would be better off in Junior football? These figures i think are unofficial so could probably be reduced given fans normally count too high...

Dublin City 175 (592)
Kildare 186 (298)
Kilkenny 185 (110)
Monaghan 183 (182)

Do these clubs have a future in senior football as surely these number must just be friends & family attending so looking at junior football numbers.

Even promotion to the Premier wouldn't mean much increase in crowds as would mainly be way fans...

If dropped 4 teams could have a nice 18 team Premier division...?

I dont agree with dropping any team but i think ull find that even those figures are exagerated. We played in monaghan this year in front of 37 ppl, Kilkenny had 48 earlyer in the season when we were down there,and dublin had about 70 for our latest kicking match with them.

A one division league is the worst thing that could happen. 4/5 teams fighting for europe and 13 with nothing to play for...

It wasn't so long ago the mighty Cork City were playing in a swamp in Bishopstown in front of the proverbial man and his dog. All of the clubs mentioned above have potential and although I agree the league has serious problems with marketing, standard etc. but dropping teams to make a great, big (and for the majority of the clubs involved, uninteresting) Premier Division is IMO not the way to go :ball:

I've only suggested for debate sake as 1st divisioners always complaining that its a wilderness.

I've left Limerick, Galway etc... in as clearly have potential.

DC/CHF will not increase home support next season as seen previously.
Monaghan don't look like would attract support if promoted.

Maybe a bit harsh on Kildare (newbies) & Kilkenny (decent ground by all accounts).

BTW Bishopstown had smaller crowds compared to crowds of last few years but never approached 150 people.

In this day and age fans are not content to take interest in a league where there are many places with nothing to play for. Perhaps it's due to us seeing the EPL where so many places down the table carry potential European qualification and the bottom three face relegation. A single division with no relegation and very few European places would leave a boring season for most, rather like.....the 1st Division! You might actually see greater attendances at some of those clubs if they faced relegation. Even a relatively big historical club like Limerick went down to below the 200 average attendence mark sitting at the bottom of the 1st last season. It could happen to almost anyone down there.

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Originally Posted by gael353

We played in monaghan this year in front of 37 ppl

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That was 2004, not 2005.

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Originally Posted by gael353

dublin had about 70 for our latest kicking match with them.

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85 according to the Irish Times, which was apparently their lowest crowd of the season.

I don't pretend those figures are accurate, but they're not too far out. Which with figures like that wouldn't be hard anyway!

I agree that there's nothing to be gained by dropping teams - especially Monaghan, Kildare and Kilkenny who are the sole teams in their county. That said, with Monaghan and Kilkenny, it's hard to see how they're going to grow given that they've had those kind of attendances for the last 20 years. Although apparently Kilkenny had 300-400 for some games during their decent run recently, so maybe there is some hope for teams like that?

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Originally Posted by pete

BTW Bishopstown had smaller crowds compared to crowds of last few years but never approached 150 people.

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Population of Cork = Several hundred thousand
Population of Monaghan/ Kilkenny = ;)

Dublin City are also "newbies" who should be given a chance to develop (kinda like that 21 year old club that recently won the league)

Monaghan AFAIK have a lot of problems with Dublin players etc, that I think come up in another thread.

Kildare seem to be struggling alright but have huge potential due to their location.

Yes, the First Division is a mire but I wouldn't have it any other way :) A one division league would IMO absolutely kill interest for the vast majority of clubs

Wasn't too long ago had loads of 1st divisioners complaining about 10 team & wanting 1 divsion for all...

:confused:

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Originally Posted by pete

Wasn't too long ago had loads of 1st divisioners complaining about 10 team & wanting 1 divsion for all...

:confused:

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Probably a cartel of evil Cobh/Galway fans :)

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Originally Posted by pete

Looking at the unofficial attendances for the 1st division i have to wonder if some clubs would be better off in Junior football? These figures i think are unofficial so could probably be reduced given fans normally count too high...

Dublin City 175 (592)
Kildare 186 (298)
Kilkenny 185 (110)
Monaghan 183 (182)

Do these clubs have a future in senior football as surely these number must just be friends & family attending so looking at junior football numbers.

Even promotion to the Premier wouldn't mean much increase in crowds as would mainly be way fans...

If dropped 4 teams could have a nice 18 team Premier division...?

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Could'nt agree more. Bit harsh on the two KCFCs but realistically an 18 team premier league would be good in an All Ireland League.

KOH

The way it is now is fine. To put all teams into one league would be sh!te. If your good enough then you'll be/gain entry into the Premier, if not, then you'll get relegated to the First. It's as simple as that.

This came up before in another thread and I'll make the same point again - Longford Town were the smallest club of the 22 just 8 seasons ago. The same thing could happen in Monaghan, Cobh, Kildare or Kilkenny. The others all have some history Athlone, Dundalk, Galway, Harps, Rovers, and it would seem only matter of time before any of these are back in the premier.

I'd say the best thing for next season is to have more teams promoted from the first division and more relegated from Premier Division! :) :p
Makes perfect sense:p

constantly changing the top flight and the league format is what is destroying the league.

How can clubs plan for the future and remain financially viable when the league format is decided two months before the season?

We had up to 500 at some games this season. There is a bit of an ill feeling towards the team in Kilkenny as we don't have a single KK lad on the team and we even train in Dublin. There are 3 KK lads on the Waterford team so that team is more KK than our own.
Also there is a problem in KK that junior soccer players and clubs disassociate themselves from KK City. A lot of lads have been approached to play for KKFC but would prefer to stay playing junior.

We do have one of the best grounds in the first division and one of the strongest teams so we won't be kicked out. There is a decent development plan in place too.

I really feel some teams would be better off as successful junior clubs than senior also-rans. I don't want to use individual clusb as examples.

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Originally Posted by pete

I don't want to use individual clusb as examples.

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You dont have to, we all know this is more of your anti-Dublin City crap. They're in the Premier Division and yes, ye will have to play them next season, get over it!:rolleyes:.

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Originally Posted by pete

I don't want to use individual clusb as examples.

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But you did in your initial post.

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Originally Posted by pete

I really feel some teams would be better off as successful junior clubs than senior also-rans. I don't want to use individual clusb as examples.

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I'm not sure how accurate this is, but the league below the 1st Division you must win a certain amout to qualify for consideration to enter the league, but the leagues beneeth this have a hell of a lot more money in them, would this be correct??? If not how does it work???