Republic of Ireland v Armenia - Tuesday, 14th October 2025 - 2026 World Cup Qualifier

A thread about things hanging by a thread, campaign, manager, our sanity. Or has even that ship has sailed ? It probably has with all three of the above on it.

Which Ireland will we get on Tuesday ?
Say the last nights Ireland show up & give Armenia a decent dicking and carry on those levels of performance with say two, three or even four points in the November window, is there a case for HH staying ?

Armenia couldn't do the double over us, could they ?

Were we cursed by being in our adolescence when Ireland were briefly decent and thus forever bound to chasing those highs ?

Does HH want the fcuk away from us & this group of players ASAP either way ?
Could well do.

So many questions. Who'd have thought we'd ever look to fcuking Armenia for the answers but here are, here we go.

Predictions lads, please.

I think it’ll be a 3-1 win. Overdue a good result. I’d be worried that the game against Portugal was both physically draining to the extreme and mentally absolutely heartbreaking.

Team selection will be key in terms of keeping a degree of consistency between games but also bringing in fresh legs where needed and picking players who have the ability on the ball to be more expressive than we were against Portugal. In the last window, I think we started 9 of the 10 starters available to play game 2 and I feel that contributed to how lethargic and poor we were in Yerevan.

But I think we also paid for last window’s squad selection. There were plenty on here bemused by the decision to drop Coleman, Ebosele, Molumby from the squad and it meant that when it came to changes we were forced to go to Killian Phillips and Liam Scales to chase the game. The unused subs were the uncapped Josh Honahan, Jonny Kenny and Bosun Lawal, alongside Jimmy Dunne and Matt Doherty along with two keepers, so we just didn’t have a bench that was capable of chasing the game.

When it comes to qualification for a World Cup, we really need to get probably 95% of decisions right as a management team and when that doesn’t happen we drop points. We could easily have won the home game with Hungary after the sending off happened and we threw away a point against Portugal and three against Armenia.

We did a lot right against Portugal but I’d still question the Ferguson selection and the late defensive substitution.

Probably no harm the site was down the last two days! That was another shocking performance, and if it weren't for red cards, we could very well be on 0 points in this group.

I've pointed out before that HH has gotten results against Bulgaria and Finland when it mattered, and the loss in Armenia remains the only real blotch on his copybook. But it feels we're going backwards rather than forwards the last few months, starting with that June friendly in Luxembourg.

His contract won't be renewed and that'll be that. It's been little better than things were under Kenny. Simply not good enough.

I know some will point to the quality available to him, but you only had to watch the north against Germany the previous evening for proof that it's possible to have much better than this.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

It's been little better than things were under Kenny.

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It has not at all been better than things under Kenny. Not at all.

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Simply not good enough.

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Correct.

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but you only had to watch the north against Germany the previous evening for proof that it's possible to have much better than this.

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Correct.
We don't have an Ethan Galbraith...or maybe we do, if we had the courage to pick players who could do that for us.

I don’t think comparing things under either manager is any use,it’s been s***e under both simple as that…..
When I seen Hungary score I thought ah that’s a bad goal but in reflection and watching us try and score against Armenia at home it doesn’t really matter does it…..

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

We don't have an Ethan Galbraith...or maybe we do, if we had the courage to pick players who could do that for us.

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What players out there are we not having the courage to play?

Was at the game last night. Felt the atmosphere was ok and not as bad as pundits were saying.
Their red card was madness. The Armenian captain seemed to be very wound up by the crowd booing him when he was injured and wouldn’t get off the pitch. So the crowd may have played their part in him losing the plot.

Thought Ebosele gave them lots of problems and couldn’t understand him being subbed off. Coleman was great.

Our biggest issue seems to be not breaking the lines. If we think of how Roy Keane would zip 10 yard passes through midfield into forwards’ feet, we really miss that kind of play.

So I think our biggest problem is midfield. Molumby did well but seems to need three extra touches before passing the ball on. Azaz had some nice moments.

Overall, I feel this team is afraid of making mistakes. They’re in a negative mindset rather than a positive one. Very few players passed and sprinted to get the return pass.
There were occasions when Manning brought the ball up the wing and there was nobody up ahead to pass to

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

It has not at all been better than things under Kenny. Not at all.


Correct.


Correct.
We don't have an Ethan Galbraith...or maybe we do, if we had the courage to pick players who could do that for us.

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I don't agree that it's as bad as Kenny, but it's bad enough that it's not worth the argument.

It's an interesting point about Galbraith though. He got his first cap before he made his senior debut at club level, which came as a 2 minute cameo off the bench for Man Utd in a Europa League game a couple of months later. Would he have had that opportunity if he hadn't first had the attention of that cap? It's not impossible, but it seems unlikely. Was his being a full international a factor in Doncaster or Salford taking him on loan, or something that made him a more appealing signing for Orient? I imagine it was. To be able to say a new signing is a full international is a good start for a club in League 1 or 2, even if it is only for NI.

Then i look at our perennial problem at left back. We have a guy like Alex Murphy learning his trade at Newcastle. He's played a bit in League 1 last season. He's been named on the bench in Premier League and Champions League games. Would it have killed us to start Ryan Manning and then give him 20 minutes from the bench in that friendly vs Luxembourg? Had we done that, Eddie Howe would certainly have been aware of it, and maybe that would have been enough to get the kid a chance from the bench for Newcastle. Or maybe a bit more than the 1 minute he got in their League Cup game against Bradford earlier this season.

If not him apply the same basic argument to Corrie Ndaba, Sean Roughan, Tayo Adaramola, García MacNulty or someone of your own choosing. Getting an international cap in your early 20s can be a sliding doors moment that leads to a totally different career path

But we played Robbie Brady and gave Manning a run off the bench.

One of the positives of this round of games is that Manning looks like he has adapted to international football, That's a good thing, but he's turning 30 next summer. The fact is that he's only just finding his feet at the point where we should already be succession planning.

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Overall, I feel this team is afraid of making mistakes.

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I think that’s the crux of it. As you say, there’s no zip in the passes and there are too many lateral, flat passes to static players. Nobody is stepping into passes which is needed for momentum, speed and urgency. And we are always too quick to turn backwards when pressed. It’s cowardly.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

We have a guy like Alex Murphy learning his trade at Newcastle. He's played a bit in League 1 last season. He's been named on the bench in Premier League and Champions League games. Would it have killed us to start Ryan Manning and then give him 20 minutes from the bench in that friendly vs Luxembourg? Had we done that, Eddie Howe would certainly have been aware of it, and maybe that would have been enough to get the kid a chance from the bench for Newcastle. Or maybe a bit more than the 1 minute he got in their League Cup game against Bradford earlier this season.

If not him apply the same basic argument to Corrie Ndaba, Sean Roughan, Tayo Adaramola, García MacNulty or someone of your own choosing. Getting an international cap in your early 20s can be a sliding doors moment that leads to a totally different career path

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Eddie Howe is not going to be influenced by a token 20 minutes in a meaningless June friendly against Luxembourg.

Stephen Kenny gave debuts early in their careers to Idah, Molumby, Knight, Kelleher, Bazunu, Parrott, O'Shea, Smallbone, Armstrong, Moran, Omobamidele and others. Some have gone on to do quite well (Kelleher, Parrott), others are players we're now crying out to be removed from the senior squad (Idah, Smallbone), others may never get more than a token cap (Armstrong, Moran). I don't think it was wrong of Kenny to cap those guys - we had no choice - but equally I'd say their international careers have had very very little impact on their club careers.

We need to stop pretending that a player not in the squad is de facto better than the players who are in the squad, despite the natural attraction of the unknown. Adaramola, Ndaba and Roughan have done the square root of **** all to earn a cap. MacNulty is a possible exception, depending on whether he can play left-back (great) or centre-back (meh).

And equally, Armenia had a Nigerian playing for them in both games by virtue of the fact he's played in the Armenian league for the last five years and is now naturalised. That's a league lower-ranked than the LoI. When a side of Championship players struggles to break down a side whose defensive lynchpin is at a lower level than the LoI, then I don't think picking weaker players will help. There's a bigger factor at play, be it psychological, tactics, or plain old giving a ****.

The FAI could sort their finances by allowing cameras all access to the senior mens. Its a total conundrum and would be compelling watching with the right amount of cringe Im sure. Ebosele's post match interview was so scripted media training its was almost as difficult as a Stephen Kenny post match interviews to watch. I agree that it doesnt make a whole lot of sense in playing players that are not performing at clubs better than those selected but does it make sense to select the same players all the time and get the same outcomes, underwhelming, underperforming, scared, disinterested or whatever. There is maybe a need to build a team (again) with players that might compliment each other or the specific systems that are being played that might justify even less lauded players. Maybe even quicker integration of underage internationals in to the senior setup. Trawl the granny rule if we have to and cap players young and even cyncially. It may not be a platform for the club fortunes and it shouldnt be in the reasoning. Different kinds of opposition but you see Cape Verde qualifying with Lopez being called up at 28, will be playing this WC at 34 and plying his trade in LoI, getting results against AFCON nations we'd not be too confident of doing so against. Bring in players we havent already broken....

If we're talking weaknesses in the squad and specialists not being called up then Joel Bagan at left back is probably one that's a bit of a surprise to me. I though he was always solid for the under 21s and he seems to be playing regularly for Cardiff still. Ok it's league one, but it's a position where we lack depth and he played with a lot of the current squad through the 21s. He always looked fairly tidy, mobile and a "good pro". Given the lack of depth in that position it's surprising he hasn't popped up in a senior squad. It's another one that's not really game changing though in fairness. If there's any promising central midfielders out there playing at just about any level then that's where we might think about throwing the straight into the senior squad. It's the most glaring gap (although only playing two in the middle does no favours to the current crop either). There's probably still a case for throwing Lawal in there, it's just a pity that's not where is club is playing him and he was injured this window either way.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Eddie Howe is not going to be influenced by a token 20 minutes in a meaningless June friendly against Luxembourg.

Stephen Kenny gave debuts early in their careers to Idah, Molumby, Knight, Kelleher, Bazunu, Parrott, O'Shea, Smallbone, Armstrong, Moran, Omobamidele and others. Some have gone on to do quite well (Kelleher, Parrott), others are players we're now crying out to be removed from the senior squad (Idah, Smallbone), others may never get more than a token cap (Armstrong, Moran). I don't think it was wrong of Kenny to cap those guys - we had no choice - but equally I'd say their international careers have had very very little impact on their club careers.

We need to stop pretending that a player not in the squad is de facto better than the players who are in the squad, despite the natural attraction of the unknown. Adaramola, Ndaba and Roughan have done the square root of **** all to earn a cap. MacNulty is a possible exception, depending on whether he can play left-back (great) or centre-back (meh).

And equally, Armenia had a Nigerian playing for them in both games by virtue of the fact he's played in the Armenian league for the last five years and is now naturalised. That's a league lower-ranked than the LoI. When a side of Championship players struggles to break down a side whose defensive lynchpin is at a lower level than the LoI, then I don't think picking weaker players will help. There's a bigger factor at play, be it psychological, tactics, or plain old giving a ****.

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What you are describing is the approach that has got us nowhere for decades.

Kenny did indeed give caps to a stack of young players. Some of them didn't make it, but quite a few did. There's nobody saying there is any guarantee about anything, but you have named about a quarter of our current squad.

The most difficult thing for a young footballer to achieve is getting themselves noticed. And here we are with a great big shop window which we refuse to let our young players take advantage of.

And once a young player gets themselves on the radar of a manager somewhere, the margins involved in the final decision to sign one player or another or even who comes in on loan are incredibly fine. Having a couple of international caps could absolutely tip the scales on way or the other.

We haven't had a teenager burst onto the scene in the way the likes of Roy Keane or Steve Staunton did in decades. The days of Premier League managers throwing in 18 and 19 year olds are more or less over. Every Premier League manager has double cover in every position. The exception is Kelleher, but Klopp only took a chance on him thanks to an injury to Alison, and Adrian committing career suicide in a champions league game against Athletico Madrid. The days of Cloughie throwing in a young lad from Cork at Anfield because he did well for the u21s are well and truly over.

We have the chance to give them that opportunity. The north do it, and are squeezing much more out of the resources available to them. Conor Bradley is another one who got his first cap before making his senior debut at club level. Undoubtedly some of the kids they have given caps to have sunk without trace. They'll maybe be back playing Irish League and telling people in the back of their taxi about getting 2 caps.

The north understand that kissing a lot of frogs is the best way to find a prince.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

What you are describing is the approach that has got us nowhere for decades.

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I think what you're describing though is a new approach that will also get us nowhere. We just haven't seen it play out yet, so it's easy one to turn to in time of desperation. though you allude to the similarity of what we have been doing for the last few years by saying Kenny's approach has given us a quarter of our current squad - but it's a pretty crap squad. So it hasn't worked.

I've been saying here for years that the real problem has been a complete lack of response to the Premier League going global. We just got left further and further behind, and every year since 2002, our squad has been getting weaker.

No-one has done anything about that - until maybe last week, when €3m for domestic academies was announced in the budget, to give three full-time coaches at each LoI academy. It's a small step, but potentially vital.

Look at how other countries - Denmark, Norway, Croatia, Slovakia - churn out players domestically who then go abroad for big fees which can be reinvested in the academies. That's exactly what you have to do in the modern era where realistically none of their clubs has a chance of winning anything (personally I'd bring back the three-foreigners rule to make club football more competitive and interesting, but that's a different topic!), and it's what we've completely failed to do, because we think what worked up to the 90s (ie relying on the English league to develop our players from age 16) still applies now, when it clearly doesn't.

We are crap and we're going to be crap (if not worse) for a while yet - and picking random League One players in the hope that it may somehow impact their club careers is plucking at straws unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

What players out there are we not having the courage to play?

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id change that quote to "if we had the courage to pick players would have the courage to do that for us".

We are complete wimps throughout the squad and management. There is nobody that has the ability to grab the game by the scruff of the next and force the pace. Maybe Coleman (and that says a lot in and of itself).

On the playing side, I cannot for the life of me understand what is going on there. There is no personality to the team. We just seem to pass for the sake of passing. I can count on one hand the number of brave passes that were played last night from defense to midfield - and when we did, we turned into space and had a decent opportunity to attack. Off the ball, we just meander around the place and dont seem to have a specific defensive approach (unless we go out with the mandate to defend like in Portugal).

On the coaching side, we seem to have a management by committee approach where the guy in charge has (willingly or unwillingly / consciously or unconsciously) divested his authority to a combination of O'Shea and McCarthy who will protect their future interests first and foremost. We need a single throat to choke. The team needs a definitive authority.

This 3 at the back approach is mindboggling and a carryover from Kenny and then O'Shea. It offers us nothing and seems to just slow us down in transition. Also, (i might be wrong here), I dont think that is HH's default formation. He spoke of 442. I watched Canada play Colombia last night. It was 0-0 but they played 442 and created a host of chances and were also able to press from the front, tuck their wingers in and defend solidly.

Absolute pox of a game last night. So many bad decisions all over the place - selection, in game etc - I cant even begin. I have zero confidence left in this team.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think what you're describing though is a new approach that will also get us nowhere. We just haven't seen it play out yet, so it's easy one to turn to in time of desperation. though you allude to the similarity of what we have been doing for the last few years by saying Kenny's approach has given us a quarter of our current squad - but it's a pretty crap squad. So it hasn't worked.

I've been saying here for years that the real problem has been a complete lack of response to the Premier League going global. We just got left further and further behind, and every year since 2002, our squad has been getting weaker.

No-one has done anything about that - until maybe last week, when €3m for domestic academies was announced in the budget, to give three full-time coaches at each LoI academy. It's a small step, but potentially vital.

Look at how other countries - Denmark, Norway, Croatia, Slovakia - churn out players domestically who then go abroad for big fees which can be reinvested in the academies. That's exactly what you have to do in the modern era where realistically none of their clubs has a chance of winning anything (personally I'd bring back the three-foreigners rule to make club football more competitive and interesting, but that's a different topic!), and it's what we've completely failed to do, because we think what worked up to the 90s (ie relying on the English league to develop our players from age 16) still applies now, when it clearly doesn't.

We are crap and we're going to be crap (if not worse) for a while yet - and picking random League One players in the hope that it may somehow impact their club careers is plucking at straws unfortunately.

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Where I agree with you is your point about a lack of response to the Premier League going global. Every Premier League side (and quite a few in the Championship) have 2 senior pros for every position. Whereas in years gone by a couple of injuries would mean an opportunity for a young player to come in, that's no longer really the case.

We were talking about Alex Murphy earlier. He's behind Lewis Hall and Dan Burn at left back, but even in the event both of those guys were unavailable it's likely Livramento or Trippier would fill in at LB ahead of him. Steve Staunton was probably at a similar spot in his career at Liverpool in the late 80s, but with squad depth being what it was back then a young fullback on the fringes of the first team squad was for more likely to get his opportunity. And sure enough Alan Hansen got an injury, Gary Ablett moved over to CB, and thanks to one player picking up an injury Stan got his chance in what might have been the best team in the world at that time. Impossible to imagine that happening today, but the lad from Louth held his own and spun that one opportunity into a stellar career.

Murphy has very little chance of breaking into the Newcastle team in the way that Steve Staunton did at Liverpool in the late 80s. But we have about as much of an idea about how he might do at international level as Kenny Dalglish did with Stan in 1988. So if he can't get an opportunity at Newcastle, why not give him his chance ourselves in a friendly against Luxembourg?

The potential downside is that he doesn't do well, or makes a mistake, but it was only a friendly. In the event we drew the bloody game anyway, but 6 months on does anybody really give a damn one way or the other? Losing in Armenia is the stick being used to beat HH. The embarrassment of drawing that friendly faded extremely quickly. And what did we find out about Robbie Brady we didn't already know?

The potential upside is that he might do really well. The clean sheet we kept that night was pretty worthless, but had we had we managed the same with him in the side he would have been part of a defence that kept a clean sheet on his debut. One would imagine he would at least put an enthusiastic shift in on his debut. Maybe he puts in a couple of decent crosses in and really looks the part. Maybe someone heads one of them in and he gets an assist? Hell, maybe he scores a goal? As a minimum he would at least be congratulated by the manager on making his debut on his return to Newcastle.

Maybe he gets a loan in the Championship because some manager is looking a left back and there's this international who can't get in at Newcastle and makes a whole career off of it, or maybe he's back driving his taxi around Galway in 5 years time telling people about the cap he got against Luxembourg. The point is it's a shot to nothing. The potential downside is very low, but the potential upside is virtually limitless.

Money for league of Ireland academies is very welcome. You are quite right to point that out that youth development is way behind in Ireland, and I agree with the point you are making completely. I expect the cream of the crop with be skimmed off by the likes of Man City and Liverpool by the time they are 16, but they will provide opportunities for those players to be developed at home and increase the chances of today's 10 year olds ending up the Man City academy in 6 years.

That is exactly what the countries you mentioned (Denmark, Norway, Croatia, Slovakia) do. The current Slovakia squad, like the Denmark squad has no domestic players. Norway & Croatia have 3 & 2 respectively, though that includes reserve goalies in both cases. The very best prospects at Rosenberg and Hajduk Split are abroad before they turn 18. As an example of what i'm talking about, Norway gave a debut this week to an 18 year old called Sverre Nypan. He's in the academy at Man City, and has played 7 times in the league on loan at Middlesborough. He got 14 minutes at the end of a friendly against New Zealand. He's now a full international at 18 years old.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football...3xo?xtor=AL-72

We're years behind on that score. It can't be easily recovered.

For now the only possible response to the Premier League going global is to drop down a division or 2, and/or give the kids who can't get an opportunity in the Premier League a chance for us ahead of older players who are established as journeymen in the Championship.

Going back to Kenny, his approach of aggressively throwing in young players lasted for about 18 months. By then he was fighting to save his job, the generation of players he had with the u21s had either come through or fallen away, and the pace of experimentation slowed. I'd say that 18 month spell is the one thing he did for Irish football which has been fully vindicated. The prevalence of those same players in our current squad is the evidence of that.

The problem isn't that he did it, it's that Mick McCarthy didn't and HH hasn't.

We know what we've been doing isn't working and there's no way to know if this might be different without trying it. It will mean a lot more people getting 3 or 4 caps, fewer people getting 40 or 60.

Many would sink. Some would swim. One of them might walk on water.

I might be a bit mad for saying this...but if we had won in Yerevan I think we'd all be singing a different tune...it was always going to be a stretch that we'd qualify for a playoff but all in all there's been a marked improvement over the Kenny era. The task is mountainous at this point and really needs a favour from Armenia but this is the first campaign since McCarthy where it's in our hands going into the last window.

I know some of the decisions were suspect. I know the players are still playing with less confidence than they should but we were 5 mins away from this being the best international window in years, results wise.

I don't know. Maybe it's bottom of the barrel stuff but I'm just happy we'll quite possibly get to enjoy a full qualifying campaign without any lame duck games. Thankfully Armenia are also theoretically still in the mix as well so they have it all to play for against Hungary.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

This 3 at the back approach is mindboggling and a carryover from Kenny and then O'Shea. It offers us nothing and seems to just slow us down in transition. Also, (i might be wrong here), I dont think that is HH's default formation. He spoke of 442. I watched Canada play Colombia last night. It was 0-0 but they played 442 and created a host of chances and were also able to press from the front, tuck their wingers in and defend solidly.

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The three at the back/two centre mids fixation seems to be a Paddy McCarthy thing. It was a consistent feature of the O'Shea/McCarthy interim period too. I can't help feeling that he's quietly doing an awful lot of damage behind the scenes and there's little prospect of things getting better until he's gone. He's trying to play a Premier League type of setup with a group of midfielders that are nowhere near good enough to play like that, and when it doesn't work he seems to have nothing else to fall back on in terms of other ideas at all.

That said, he's a number two/number three in charge, so you have to hold the number one to account if he's allowing someone in his backroom team to continue to dictate despite consistently poor results.

We'll be put out of our misery quickly next month, which is just as well at this point. HH will go, but unless there's a full clear out alongside him nothing will change.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

We were talking about Alex Murphy earlier. He's behind Lewis Hall and Dan Burn at left back, but even in the event both of those guys were unavailable it's likely Livramento or Trippier would fill in at LB ahead of him. Steve Staunton was probably at a similar spot in his career at Liverpool in the late 80s

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I think there's a couple of points here. First off, there's squad requirements now which mean plenty of token young and/or British players at squads. They often go nowhere. Not comparable to Stan at Liverpool I think.

I don't mind giving Murphy a cap - but let's not pretend it'll make Eddie Howe sit up and take notice. There's so much scouting now that if he's good enough, he'll get scouted at a PL2 game (or wherever it is he's playing) much quicker than in an Ireland game.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

That is exactly what the countries you mentioned (Denmark, Norway, Croatia, Slovakia) do. The current Slovakia squad, like the Denmark squad has no domestic players. Norway & Croatia have 3 & 2 respectively, though that includes reserve goalies in both cases. The very best prospects at Rosenberg and Hajduk Split are abroad before they turn 18. As an example of what i'm talking about, Norway gave a debut this week to an 18 year old called Sverre Nypan. He's in the academy at Man City, and has played 7 times in the league on loan at Middlesborough. He got 14 minutes at the end of a friendly against New Zealand. He's now a full international at 18 years old.

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So the thing is we've also given games to a Man City academy player - Bazunu. (Technically on loan at Rochdale when he made his debut, but Nypan is on loan at Boro, so same thing). Bazunu was a full international at 19. Hasn't made him any good though - he's now bench warming at Southampton.

And while those sides have few players in their squads, their players tend to leave the domestic league at 21 or older, not 18 or 16. That's been shown by UEFA to make a big difference in player development. Nypan for example already has 70 games for Rosenborg. Adaramola, three years older, has played half that number of senior games, and mostly at a lower level. I'm going to hazard a guess here that Nypan is just a much better player than Adaramola. Ditto Roughan and Ndaba (both 25).

So by all means throw good players in - but don't go making the mistake of thinking that throwing them in makes them good players. It doesn't.