What would your Lions Test XV be?

.................................Josh Lewsey................................

Mark Cueto...Brian O'Driscoll....Gordon D'Arcy..Shane Williams.

......................Gavin Henson..........................................
.......................................Dwayne Peel..........................

Tom Smith...................Mefin Davies..............Phil Vickery..

..........Paul O'Connell(capt)..............Danny Grewcock...........

Martin Corry............Lawrence D'Allaglio........Martyn Williams.

Subs: Geordan Murphy, Ronan O'Gara, Chris Cussiter, Marcus Horan,
Gordon Bulloch, Malcolm O'Kelly, Simon Taylor.

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I think those backs would be really explosive. Henson will be the next Welsh outhalf, and can kick a bit too. Strong fast forwards, although I know people will slate me for putting Larry in at No.8. IMO he's still the best 8 playing in the Northern Hemisphere at the moment.

1. Tom Smith
2. Shane Byrne
3. Julian White
4. Malcolm O'Kelly
5. Paul O'Connell (C)
6. Jason White
7. Martyn Williams
8. Michael Owen
9. Dwayne peel
10. Ronan O'Gara (although after saturday, Jones nearly sneaks in)
11. Shane Williams
12. Gavin Henson
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Jason Robinson
15. Gareth Thomas (just ahead of Geordan Murphy)

Subs:
Mefwyn Davies
Lewis Moody
Johnny o'Connor
Chris Custler
Stephen Jones
Gordon D'Arcy
Geordan Murphy
Chris Patterson

You've not picked a hooker??? :confused:

Whoops edited

Shane Byrne hands down, he would have been one of the first names on

.......................................Gareth Thomas (15)
Denis Hickie (14).............................................. Shane Williams (11)
..................Brian O'Driscoll (13)...........Tom Shanklin (12)
..........................Ronan O'Gara (10)
..........................................Dwayne Peel (9)

.........Martyn Williams(7)........Michael Owen (8)..........Jason White (6)
........................Paul O'Connell (5)...........Malcolm O'Kelly (4)
.........Phil Vickery (3)............Shane Byrne (2)............Tom Smith (1)

Starting with the backs Thomas, Williams, and O'Driscoll pretty much pick themselves. Shanklin has been far more impressive than Henson to me this season although at 13 rather than twelve. Likewise I have Hickie on the wing he doesn't normally play narrowly ahead of Rhys Williams.

Despite a poor game against Wales, and not much better against France, I have ROG at ten as Jones just isn't accurate enough with his place kicking. If Wilkinson is fit I'd replace ROG with him. Peel hasn't the same natural talent as Cusiter but is stronger and more confident, and frankly does more.

Back row is straightforward enough. The only question was whether or not to go with Corry and I said no. Otherwise the strongest line in the team.

That the third choice I had was also Irish (O'Callaghan) says a lot about the state of this position amongst the four nations. Missing depth that Johnson would offer while Grewcock hasn't played well for England since Johnson quite internationally.

Front row is undoubtedly the weakest point of the team. That an Irish front row gets a look in says it all. Vickery is class, Smith is solid, Mullet is the only hooker who can throw straight. He shouldn't be a serious option yet who else is there. As a player Mefin Davies is superior but can't be trusted to hit his target.

This will be, in my opinion, the weakest Lions team I have ever seen. The 1993 side had more quality throughout the nations, likewise 1997 when even a terrible Ireland team donated a great back row. 2001 had a strong England team and an Irish team on the up to back them up. I didn't see the 1989 team but they won against the Aussies so must have been quite useful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu

This will be, in my opinion, the weakest Lions team I have ever seen. The 1993 side had more quality throughout the nations, likewise 1997 when even a terrible Ireland team donated a great back row.

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Ireland didn't have a back row player in any of the test sides; Miller was the only Irish back row to have made the tour and played remarkably well, but got sick before the tests and lost out to Quinnell in the first test,Richard Hill in the other two. Back and D'Allaglio made up the rest of the back row. :confused: The Irish Lions on that tour were: Paul Wallace, Jeremy Davidson, Keith Wood, and Miller.

15. Gareth Thomas
14. Denis Hickie
13. Brian O'Driscoll
12. Gordan D'Arcy
11. Shane Williams
10. Stephen Jones
9. Chris Cussiter
1. Tom Smith
2. Shane Byrne
3. Phil Vickery
4. Paul O'Connell
5. Malcolm O'Kelly
6. Jason White
7. Martyn Williams
8. Michael Owen

The pack doesn't look great. :(

Is Phil Vickery not injured? Thought he was out and not travelling.
If he's available he'd be in at 3 in mine

15. Gareth Thomas
14. Jason Robinson
13. Brian O'Driscoll
12. Gavin Henson
11. Shane Williams
10. Stephen Jones
9. Dwayne Peel
1. 2. 3. Who knows what goes on in there!
4. Paul O'Connell
5. Ben Kay
6. Jason White
7. Martyn Williams
8. Michael Owen

Zinzan Brooke Selection

I saw Zinzan Brooke's selection there. I assume that's the possible Lions team that would most likely lose to New Zealand.

Although it looks like Vickery is a goner as I assume he'd have been a dead cert on his list. In that case there is no decent No 3 option. Before you all jump in and say John Hayes two things...(1) He can't scrum (2) He's fat, very fat, playing in quite warm conditions (even if it is autumn/winter in the Southern Hemisphere) so he'll tire. The latter point can be overcome but the first can't.

To say he can't scrummage is a tad unfair. He has scrummaged well on occassions, but nowhere near consistently enough. As for him being 'fat, very fat', I suggest you look at his fitness levels published by the IRFU. He's quite fit, and can shift a bit for a 6ft 4 20.5 stone lad....he's not that 'fat' at all.

He can shift a bit for his size but his size is huge. Outside the scrum he's great but he can't scrummage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu

(1) He can't scrum

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Agree.
As joeSoap said he has done well on occasion, but the fact is he's not consistent and would be the weak point in the scrum. New Zealand would target him as such. I think from that point of view he's a non-starter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pete

Zinzan Brooke Selection

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What a load of crockery. Zinzan what a fine player you were , but as far as puditing (is that even a word?) goes you are like Steve Thompson, ie miles off the mark!

As for this talk of Denis Hickie being selected on the wing, nonsense.

15. Gareth Williams
14. Josh Lewsey
13. Brian O’Driscoll
12. Tom Shanklin
11. Shane Williams
10. Gavin Henson
9. Dwayne Peel
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Gordon Bulloch
3. Julian White
4. Paul O’Connell
5. Danny Grewcock
6. Martin Corry
7. Martin Williams
8. Michael Owen

Gethin Jenkins is again another fine loose player whose scrummaging must be questioned. Where you got Danny Grewcock from I don't know. Two years ago maybe but he's not the player he was when Johnson was beside him.

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Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu

Where you got Danny Grewcock from I don't know. Two years ago maybe but he's not the player he was when Johnson was beside him.

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I put Grewcock in too. The rest of the second rowers are too mamby pamby and lightweight. It was a choice for me between Grewcock and O'Kelly, and Grewcock gets it for his agression, which most of the time is controlled, and I feel that with O'Connell beside him, you'll see him back to his best. Mal gives away too much posession and penalties.I believe the physicality down under is far better suited to a Grewcock than an O'Kelly.

Some of your selections would be dubious in my eyes, particularly playing Hickie, and out of position at that. Michael Owen would for me, be way too lightweight and not physical enough to be coping with the likes of Richie McCaw buzzing around his face for 80 mins. O'Gara is a confidence player and it will be interesting to see how he gets on in the early games, but I think Silverboots would really bring out the best in a centre partnership of God and D'Arcy, with a back three of fliers in Lewsey, Cueto and Williams.Defensively, Williams would be the only weak link there.

Aren't opinions great !! :D :D

Well like I said if he's fit I'd have Wilko straight in at number 10, I'm just not convinced that he won't further aggravate his injuries.

Again I said this is a weak Lions team, the weakest I've ever seen. I don't think Hickie played well while Rhys Williams did but I just reckon the Williams lacks something. On that point there's an argument for Shaggy but lets face it while he's a personal hero I couldn't see him doing a job for the Lions. Cueto is massively over-rated, I think Woodward might play him but I wouldn't go for him.

As for the physicality of Grewcock, fair enough, but again his form is far too questionable for me. I'm a big Mal fan but am torn between him and O'Callaghan as far as O'Connell's best partner.

Incidentally I doubt O'Callaghan will make the squad as Woodward can't pick a player he hasn't seen much of at international level this season(unless he goes for Dallaglio but that's more out of loyalty), which is a pity. I know Woodward mentioned two other non-internationals, including Trevor Brennan, as possibles but if anything the fact that O'Callaghan has been in the squad will go against him as his lack of game time will unfortunately reflect negatively on him.

Like I said Henson hasn't impressed me as much as he has other people, he's good and definitely deserves his place on the tour. As for D'Arcy, he's undoubtedely the best partner for O'Driscoll but has been out of it a bit and will need to shine big time in the Heineken Cup (if Leinster are even still in it when he comes back) to make me go for him ahead of Shanks.

The position I thought was the strongest of the entire squad as far as depth was concerned doesn't look as good now. In full back Gareth Thomas is still the man, but aside from one moment of brilliance Geordan Murphy was a big disappointment in the championship. Hopefully the old adage "form is temporary, class is permanent" (and if I've said it wrong my apologies) will ring true. Paterson could do with a bit of a confidence boost to get him back to his best, well that goes for anyone Scottish that's got talent at the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu

Incidentally I doubt O'Callaghan will make the squad as Woodward can't pick a player he hasn't seen much of at international level this season(unless he goes for Dallaglio but that's more out of loyalty), which is a pity. I know Woodward mentioned two other non-internationals, including Trevor Brennan, as possibles but if anything the fact that O'Callaghan has been in the squad will go against him as his lack of game time will unfortunately reflect negatively on him.

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Didn't Woodward ask O'Callaghan to not turn out for Munster in a Celtic League game for which he was selected, so he could play him in that Tsunami North v South game? I'd say he rates him ok, and he'll make the squad. D'Allaglio will definitely make the squad, and rightly so in my book. Other non-playing internationals that might sneak in in my opinion are; Marcus Horan, Will Greenwood, Jonny Wilkinson(if fit) and possibly Eric Miller or Alan Quinlan.

I'd be surprised if Greenwood doesn't travel. Bloody good player, and we know Woodward rates him. Didn't know about the Munster match thing with O'Callaghan.

Miller probably won't travel, don't think Quinlan will either.

Can't seriously see Marcus Horan figuring either. Seeing as your from Limerick I'd say your view on him is drastically different to mine, but personal feelings aside I doubt Woodward will be fond of any Irish front row forward, even one that didn't feature, after this championship.