Croke Farse

FFS another EUR40 million has been promised by the state to fund Croke Park development. That brings the total amount to near EUR110 million. According to GAA President Sean Kelly, "There are no strings attched", i.e. no preconditions on the opening up of Croke Park.
This saga gets more disgusting by the day. It is a horrible thought to find that a private organisation with the view that offering support to fellow sporting organisations is against their ethos is allowed plough vast amounts of taxpayers' money into a stadium which sees so few capacity crowds in even twelve months. They (the GAA) forcefeed this 'amateur organisation with professional abilities' crap down people's throats at every available opportunity and yet continue to be allowed take the lion's share of sports funding, even after a series of games recently which would have grossed the association millions of EURO. For 110 million the government could have funded/co-funded (rem McManus' 50 million?) a superb stadium for the use of every man, woman and child in Ireland... 'with no strings attached'.

one point that must be known is that even when the gaa have recieved 105m in a period of time, they have paid 93m in paye, prsi and vat in the same period....

also we must remember that 191m will be pumped into landsdown road by the government as well.

i am not a major supporter, but after the consessions made by our local county borad re cup semi on sun, i find it hard to put in the boot on this matter.

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Originally Posted by max power

also we must remember that 191m will be pumped into lansdowne road by the government as well.

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Exactly, FAI are getting money from the government too, for a stadium that they will only fill around the same amount of times every year so stop the begrudging.

Saying that I'd love it if Croker was opened up and think that it probably will be at some stage but there is absolutely no right/obligation on the GAA to do so.

I don't have any problem with the GAA's rules and opinions. Like I said, they are a private organisation. Therefore, they can do what they like as far as I'm concerned. As regards taking the money, any properly run organisation would do the same.
I am angry that the government are prepared to support their exclusive stance on issues regarding the use of Croke Park. Had they pushed the GAA a bit more rather than dishing out the cha-chings maybe there would no need for a further 200 odd million to be spent.

RE not putting the boot in on the GAA. It's common knowledge that local GAA is light years ahead of its overall authority. Longford GAA have often shown themselves to be particularly progressive - hence the agreement for Sunday.

RE paying taxes, etc. If we all got grants back relative to the amount we spend in taxes we'd be living in a pretty sweet but fcuked up tax system. They pay those amounts because %age wise thats what we all pay.

[QUOTE=cullenswood]stop the begrudging.
QUOTE]

i don't begrudge the GAA a penny (see the above post). I do take an interest in the value i get for paying taxes though

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Originally Posted by cullenswood

Exactly, FAI are getting money from the government too, for a stadium that they will only fill around the same amount of times every year so stop the begrudging.

Saying that I'd love it if Croker was opened up and think that it probably will be at some stage but there is absolutely no right/obligation on the GAA to do so.

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There was no obligation on the part of the my local (Tory) council here in Sasana to allow the local GAA the right to use their facilities but these so-called 'anti-Irish bigots' :rolleyes: still did. It's what I call not being such a f*cking dog-in-the-manger. BTW, if it wasn't for the GAA, €190 of tax money would be put to better use. FFS, I mean, it's not like the FAI and IRFU are asking for the use of the ground for free, is it?

Government are to blame here - hundreds of millions of euro will be lost to our economy when our home games are played abroad. Why not recommend to the broken glass spreaders that they earn their money from rent instead.

The money also comes with "no strings attached" which is actually true because even if Sean Kelly promises to do all that he can and he probably will he has already been shafted by the bigoted backwoodsmen.

Great post Magoo. Have to agree with you, lopez and gspain.

It makes me sick to see the GAA get such funding. Another 40million is a disgrace. If we were to listen to the likes of Max Power, we would be willing to accept this type of behaviour. As we all know, Max himself is a PRSI worker, yet I'm sure the government don't come running with large grants to him. As Magoo points out, this money could have been better spent on facilities for every man, woman and child.

The GAA are simply a branch of the Irish maffia. A sectarian organisation that only cares about itself. I feel sorry for Sean Kelly, a great man. As for Boothman, McDonagh, etc., they are the scum of the earth.

Shame on the GAA bigots, shame on this so-called government, and shame on those so-called Irish people who go out of their way to vindicate such actions.

Let me get this straight: the Government gave the GAA, Ireland's biggest sporting organisation, €110m towards the c. €450m re-development of their ground without any strings attached and are giving the IRFU and FAI €191m (or two-thirds of the projected cost) of the re-development costs of Lansdowne Road, similarly with no strings attachced???

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Originally Posted by roboyle

Let me get this straight: the Government gave the GAA, Ireland's biggest sporting organisation, €110m towards the c. €450m re-development of their ground without any strings attached and are giving the IRFU and FAI €191m (or two-thirds of the projected cost) of the re-development costs of Lansdowne Road, similarly with no strings attachced???

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One promotes sectarianism by it's intolerance of "foreign" games.
The other two promote global integration through competition.
FAIreland were blocked from building their own ground by the government.
The GAA had government assistance at every phase of the Croke Park redevelopment.

The economy of this country will lose hundreds of million so feuro if home Internationals are played abroad. We've already given up our Pool in the 2007 Rugby World Cup.

Pubs/Restaurants/hotels/Caterers will lose significant amounts of money. Jobs will be lost as a result of this.

Today 300-400 jobs may not mean much but who know sin 2-3 years time what state our economy will be in. We were a basket case during the 1980's.

The Ireland vEngland Rugby match last year was worth €90 million alone to the economy with significant benefits being felt as far away as Portlaoise.

Appreciate this is not the GAA's problem they are right to look for the money and pull whatever strokes they need one kerryman to another etc.

However the government has a resonsibility to taxpayers and the citizens of this country and this was a shameful act - hjust as bad as McCreevy bailing out hhis horse racing buddies in Punchestown.

The fact that the GAA has sectarian rules and huge power is wieled by narrow minded bigots are obviously other good reasons although that has always been the case.

Any funding for Croke Park should have been conditional on it being available while Lansdowne is being redeveloped.

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Originally Posted by Peadar

One promotes sectarianism by it's intolerance of "foreign" games.
The other two promote global integration through competition.

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That sounds like the retoric of the DUP (only line dancing would've been included alongside the GAA as a 'force of evil'). 'Promotes sectarianism' - a recent example of this would be??

The GAA tolerates other sports, they just choose to not allow other sports to be played on their grounds - which is their right. Don't forget, the Government is paying out €10m to he hosts of the Ryder Cup in two years time, even though the golf society there (can't remember the venue) will not admit female members.

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Originally Posted by Peadar

FAIreland were blocked from building their own ground by the government.

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The FAI were not blocked from building their own stadium - the Government gave them a financial sweetner if they rowed in behind the Stadium Ireland plans and did not proceed with Eircom Park, which they then chose to do so... surely any beef here should be with the Government, not the GAA?

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Originally Posted by Peadar

The GAA had government assistance at every phase of the Croke Park redevelopment.

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The GAA went ahead with the redevelopment of their grounds before the vast majority of the funding was granted - the IRFU and FAI are only minor financiers of the re-development of the IRFU's own ground and approached the Government before submitting planning permission.

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Originally Posted by roboyle

The GAA tolerates other sports, they just choose to not allow other sports to be played on their grounds - which is their right.

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As if its withing their gift to "tolerate" other sports
They allow american football and american concert artists, of course it is their right but not after millions of public money has been given to them.

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Originally Posted by roboyle

Don't forget, the Government is paying out €10m to he hosts of the Ryder Cup in two years time, even though the golf society there (can't remember the venue) will not admit female members.

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Untrue, its the K club which does allow female members, to do otherwise would be illegal

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Originally Posted by roboyle

The FAI were not blocked from building their own stadium -

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Yes they were, amongst other things the Air corps were instructed to object on the basis of interfering with their flight path, absloute rubbish of course as there is already a mountain there which already hinders this flight path.

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Originally Posted by roboyle

The GAA went ahead with the redevelopment of their grounds before the vast majority of the funding was granted - the IRFU and FAI are only minor financiers of the re-development of the IRFU's own ground and approached the Government before submitting planning permission.

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Again untrue, the IRFU/FAI are major contributors the the project, you really should check your facts before putting forward such views

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Originally Posted by roboyle

Let me get this straight: the Government gave the GAA, Ireland's biggest sporting organisation, €110m towards the c. €450m re-development of their ground without any strings attached and are giving the IRFU and FAI €191m (or two-thirds of the projected cost) of the re-development costs of Lansdowne Road, similarly with no strings attachced???

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the new lansdowne road will be able to accommodate GAA matches and the GAA have already stated that they may be interested in holding the occasional game there. therefore no need to have any strings attached to the receipt of public money for the project.... it will be open to all sports!

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Originally Posted by roboyle

Don't forget, the Government is paying out €10m to he hosts of the Ryder Cup in two years time, even though the golf society there (can't remember the venue) will not admit female members.

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I think you'll find that's Portmarnock not the K Club.
Your arguments are as flawed as your opinion is misguided.

You'll see the money rolling in from the Ryder Cup and you'll try to remember why you got your knickers in a twist over the €10m petty cash provided by the government.

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Originally Posted by Cowboy

amongst other things the Air corps were instructed to object on the basis of interfering with their flight path, absloute rubbish of course as there is already a mountain there which already hinders this flight path.

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Yes and the regulations cited were with regard to a commercial airport not a private airodrome. Ironically when Ryanair made a proposal to get Baldonnell opened up as an alternative to Dublin airport they were basically told that would never happen.

Seems I’m on the minority side here on this issue, for some reason it seems that the GAA, who are perfectly within their rights to request Government funding for their redevelopment of Croke Park, have incurred the wrath of you lot for being granted funds amounting to, by rough calculation, less than a quarter of the total costs incurred.

Anyway, in response to a few of the replies:

1. I merely mentioned that the GAA ‘tolerates’ other sports because it had been said previously that the GAA ‘promotes sectarianism by it’s intolerance of “foreign” games.’ Sorry if this offended, but the original posting was not true.

2. I stand corrected on the venue of the Ryder Cup – however I remember a few years ago people on Questions & Answers giving out that public funds had gone to a golf club to enable them to host a major golfing tournament despite the rules of the club barring female membership. This remains the case.

3. The FAI were not blocked from building their own stadium – fact is they decided not to go ahead after meeting with Government officials and having received promises regarding funding / Stadium Ireland – they made a conscious decision NOT to go ahead with planning their own stadium. They never requested planning permission.

4. As for my comment that the FAI/IRFU are not major contributors to the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road I am correct – here is an excerpt from the Irish Times on 2nd September this year (under a heading Firm agreement on new stadium):
‘Under the terms of the agreement between the two federations, they have entered a joint venture with a 50-per-cent equal share, although the IRFU are providing funds of €68 million, the FAI €33 million and the state €191 million.’
This means the state/tax-payer will be paying two-thirds of the costs of a venue to which the ownership of the outcome will remain in the hands of private ownership.
I had checked my facts before putting forward my views.

5. Yes Lansdowne Road will be available for use by the GAA – all the better for the FAI and IRFU if they choose to exercise this option, since they will benefit from the rental of the venue to the GAA.

I don’t think it’s good for the GAA to refuse use of Croke Park to other sports, however it is their prerogative to do so.

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Originally Posted by roboyle

3. The FAI were not blocked from building their own stadium – fact is they decided not to go ahead after meeting with Government officials and having received promises regarding funding / Stadium Ireland – they made a conscious decision NOT to go ahead with planning their own stadium. They never requested planning permission.

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I think you'll find that you're very wrong here.
The FAI were left with no option but to scrap eircom Park.
Research it.

The government will have a stake in Lansdowne - they have no stake in Croke Park.

I agree Portmarnock Golf Club should not get state funding as they do not allow women members although women can play there. Would a whole "sporting" organisation that defacto discriminates against protestants and those ethnic British people on this island?

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Originally Posted by roboyle

Anyway, in response to a few of the replies:

1. I merely mentioned that the GAA ‘tolerates’ other sports because it had been said previously that the GAA ‘promotes sectarianism by it’s intolerance of “foreign” games.’ Sorry if this offended, but the original posting was not true.

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point taken

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Originally Posted by roboyle

2. I stand corrected on the venue of the Ryder Cup – however I remember a few years ago people on Questions & Answers giving out that public funds had gone to a golf club to enable them to host a major golfing tournament despite the rules of the club barring female membership. This remains the case.

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and it is just as wrong as the croke park funding, they discriminate on the basis sport rather than gender, there is no logical resaon why soccer should not be played there in fact in flies in the face of financial logic, this latest "grant" just gives them more breathing space.

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Originally Posted by roboyle

3. The FAI were not blocked from building their own stadium – fact is they decided not to go ahead after meeting with Government officials and having received promises regarding funding / Stadium Ireland – they made a conscious decision NOT to go ahead with planning their own stadium. They never requested planning permission.

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This meeting took place after all the blocking tactics red tape etc were already in place and the decision not to proceed was made under duress. In reality they were blocked it is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

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Originally Posted by roboyle

4. As for my comment that the FAI/IRFU are not major contributors to the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road I am correct – here is an excerpt from the Irish Times on 2nd September this year (under a heading Firm agreement on new stadium):
‘Under the terms of the agreement between the two federations, they have entered a joint venture with a 50-per-cent equal share, although the IRFU are providing funds of €68 million, the FAI €33 million and the state €191 million.’
This means the state/tax-payer will be paying two-thirds of the costs of a venue to which the ownership of the outcome will remain in the hands of private ownership.
I had checked my facts before putting forward my views.

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Since when is 33m a minor contribution?

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Originally Posted by roboyle

I don’t think it’s good for the GAA to refuse use of Croke Park to other sports, however it is their prerogative to do so.

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Not when they are using mine and others money to perpetuaute a sectarian agenda, their position is morally untennable in the current climate.

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Originally Posted by roboyle

Seems I’m on the minority side here on this issue, for some reason it seems that the GAA, who are perfectly within their rights to request Government funding for their redevelopment of Croke Park, have incurred the wrath of you lot for being granted funds amounting to, by rough calculation, less than a quarter of the total costs incurred

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Any wrath incurred is due to the various reasons listed above by different people on this board. However, that is another argument, not necessarily to do with this one.
I, myself, said that i dont feel any resentment towards the GAA for taking the money. Come on, who wouldn't? My resentment lies in the fact that public funding is being offered with no return on investment being sought by the state. In every situation whereby anyone recieives a state provided grant it is always issued on the premise that the money being handed over is being saved by the state through not having to provide whatever the receiver of the grant is providing. In this case, however, under the current situation of closed doors in Croke Park, it looks as though the state will need to provide a suitable stadium for national events such as soccer, rugby, (concerts), whatever... despite having given the GAA all that cash.