The Emigration Thread

I'm packing my bags now to go back to the UK after Christmas back at home, and it's starting to really hit home that I'm now an emigrant.

I had to leave to find a job, because there was nothing left for me here. I do feel guilty about having 16 years of education paid for by the Irish taxpayer, who won't see the benefit from it.

I don't regret leaving Ireland, though. Almost anyone who's been unemployed for a year would tell you what an awful experience it is. I'm a lot happier to be working, even if it is away from my family and old friends, and in a country a lot more different from Ireland than I initially expected.

Anyway, I thought I'd start a thread on it, as emigration is a pretty topical issue lots of people have strong opinions about, and experience with.

Lots of my friends have either left or are leaving in 2012, some wish to come back, some will practically spit on the ground as they exit. I'm lucky enough that both myself and my girlfriend's jobs are pretty secure (knock on wood) so I'm hoping we'll see this through, but I'd rather not see friend's fly out obviously.

There's still some work in Dublin I think but anytime I've been home to Limerick or gone visiting friends in Cork it has become more obvious that this recession will do for any city outside of the capital as the government will sort out Dublin first and foremost. Limerick is looking more and more like a bomb hit it and Cork doesn't seem to be far behind.

I've heard people complain about those leaving the country but I honestly don't see what the problem is. There is little work left available so people have to move on. Sadly it will be a good few years yet before Ireland gets back to where we'd like it and by that stage those that emigrate will probably be settled in their new countries so I imagine we've lost a large chunk of a generation with this

Foreigners usually handle the situation better, especially the European ones. If there's no work in their own country, there's usually another country a few hours down the road or line, with better prospects and opportunities, so it's not a major issue to emigrate from e.g. Czech Republic to Germany. And they can go back and forth fairly regularly.

Here we're stuck on a rock, and the only way out to most countries is by flying, which is a rare event and usually expensive. For those reasons, it's much harder to get back too, which makes the feeling of loss harder to bear. We also have relatively poor foreign language skills, so job prospects beyond English-speaking countries are usually few and far between. So when someone does emigrate, it's usually a huge event for them and their relatives.

As someone in a secure government job it pains me to see such generally capable and intelligent and decent people leave whilst I'm surrounded by idiots and muppets.

Some of my friends have moved to London and as they are involved in certain industries there's a serious likelihood that they won't be returning.

I'm currently working on my exit strategy so barring a serious unlikely promotion I'm outta here come summer 2015.

Moved to Prague 4 years ago. Plenty of work in IT here for anyone with that kind of experience. Brilliant place to live too

just back from 10 months travelling, and I've been lucky enough to line up 4months work at home. But once I save up, I'm heading back to Australia, as there's a good bit of work out there. Loads of young Irish people too, especially in and around Perth. The only thing that I couldn't be bothered with is the huge drinking culture amongst the Irish in Australia, worse than I've ever seen, and working in construction I've seen a lot of heavy drinkers.

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Originally Posted by jebus

I've heard people complain about those leaving the country but I honestly don't see what the problem is. There is little work left available so people have to move on. Sadly it will be a good few years yet before Ireland gets back to where we'd like it and by that stage those that emigrate will probably be settled in their new countries so I imagine we've lost a large chunk of a generation with this

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I can understand where they're coming from, but for me, it was a choice between leave Ireland, or put a drain on the economy by signing onto the dole.

Ireland don't exactly have much of a nuclear industry, and the general mechanical and manufacturing sector isn't much better at the moment, so I doubt I'll be back at any time soon, unfortunately. I suppose I'm lucky I've only had to go as far as the UK, and not all the way to Australia or NZ.

I left for the Czech Republic in the summer as soon as I graduated.

Though, being honest, even if boom times were still here, I would have wanted to leave. I've never wanted to spend my life in Ireland. I'm lucky in that way as there were a lot more options outside Ireland and it was easier than it would have been if I'd graduated a few years ago.

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Originally Posted by superfrank

I left for the Czech Republic in the summer as soon as I graduated.

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How are you liking it here? I absolutely love it. Great standard of living, pretty much crime free, and non stop sports :D

I'm happy enough here, though I don't see myself staying here more than a year or two.

I spent a short time in Prague before coming to Brno, where I was offered a better job. It's a lot different from Prague, a lot harder to meet people when you don't have Czech but then it's a lot cheaper too so it's not all bad.

Fair play. Can't imagine living outside Prague while in Cz, that said, I've yet to visit Brno, have only passed through it

There's not much to it, really, but I was following the money and there was more to be made here, and with less hassle, than if I'd stayed in Prague.

Is there any figures about the impact this brain drain will have? I lived in England for 5 years, and whilst it wasn't as big a cultural shock as it would be for someone from RoI, I always longed for home. As I had got a "dream job" of sorts, which I could never get in Derry I was happy enough to stick it out. Along comes David Cameron with his powerful axe and I'm out of a job. Wasn't much secure work available elsewhere so decided to up sticks and return to NI.
Now that I'm back it just doesn't feel the same, most of my friends are scattered around Belfast and Derry just isn't the same place to me. Whilst I've got a secure job, I couldn't spend the rest of my life doing it so I'll be an emigrant again soon enough. I've got bugger all foreign language skills so will need to be an english speaking country, not sure if it'll be England again as I'd like to venture further afield this time.

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Originally Posted by horton

I've got bugger all foreign language skills so will need to be an english speaking country, not sure if it'll be England again as I'd like to venture further afield this time.

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Might not be needed. Over here in Cz is full of huge American companies. For most jobs Czech is not required

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Originally Posted by horton

Now that I'm back it just doesn't feel the same, most of my friends are scattered around Belfast and Derry just isn't the same place to me. Whilst I've got a secure job, I couldn't spend the rest of my life doing it so I'll be an emigrant again soon enough. I've got bugger all foreign language skills so will need to be an english speaking country, not sure if it'll be England again as I'd like to venture further afield this time.

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I found the same, I was out of work for the guts of a year, after coming back from a Masters in Scotland. Dublin wasn't the same place for me when I came back. All my mates had gone off for work abroad, or else the geniuses who had managed to beat off all the competition and get a job in Ireland were up to their eyeballs in work. I started to realise that even though Dublin is still home, my friends are now scattered all over the globe, and there are no real ties holding me to Dublin.

I'm lucky in that I quite enjoy learning languages. I have passable French, and a little Dutch and German, so I really would like to live and work somewhere interesting and foreign for a while. I was thinking Quebec, perhaps. The job I have at the moment pays the bills, but it's not what I want to do for the rest of my life. Or even the rest of my twenties.

But if things do pick up back home, then I have the guilt of that free education the Irish economy isn't seeing the benefit of.

After a few years in Japan, I came back to Ireland in Sept 2008, worked on and off for a year, then did a Master's in UL. I was very very fortunate in that UL has an affiliation with a Japanese university, and they were looking to replace their departing teachers with others from the same university (to maintain a balance of nationalities in their teaching staff). I applied for and got the job, and moved to Tokyo in april of last year.

I'm different from a lot of other people leaving Ireland in that I had a job before leaving, but there's no question that I'd perfer to be working in Ireland. It's unlikely to happen any time soon though. After my contract finishes here, I'm wondering where will be next.

Peadar, don't feel guilty about free education in Ireland, it certainly isn't free and could do so much more for us, however from experience it is one of the better systems in the world, one great thing we can be sure of is that under the state controlled marking, results actually mean something. I know this isn't an education thread so I'll leave it.

I left Ireland as soon as I graduated in 1996 for a few reasons - 1. there were precious little jobs or hope of jobs, everyone I knew was leaving or going on for another degree (I couldn't have afforded to go onto a HDip or anything else), 2. at the time my 2 chosen professions had nothing doing (sports and archaeology) and 3. I had a 2 year contract offer with further prospects. I tried to come back 3 times since, the last time I'd accepted a job offer to begin work the first week in February 2009, I went back with my other half to hand in our notices, then I landed back the last week in January to find an apartment etc etc, I just started work one week and the company's parent (in Germany) pulled the plug, I was left with nothing. So I just came back to Moscow and got more work.

I would dearly love to come back to Ireland as I know it's an amazing country, there are no people I've met as decent and warm as the Irish and I miss sports in Ireland. There are lots of faults, as with anywhere, though it's home and always will be. But now, my kids will probably grow up knowing my home as the place they go to visit the odd time and never be accepted as Irish. I've met more people arriving from Ireland here in Russia in the last 12 months, actually this year, than I did in the preceding 2-3 years. Lots of young guys and girls coming to teach english, girls coming to work as nannies, IT people, engineers and even some construction people. The embassy here tries to keep tabs on the numbers but most new arrivals don't bother to register and you only bump into them by accident once they've copped on and avoid the "oirish" pubs. I've gotten 1 former classmate a teaching job here, he'd been 9 years teaching at a CBS in Dublin, yet was always on contract and never permanent, yet he ended up covering for teachers who had more than 20 years service worked up and played hard and fast with the rules in skiving off. He was told in August that his contract was not being renewed. He's been here since October and probably will move on later in the year to some other country.

We all know at least one person who has emigrated, and every family is touched in some way, yet economists and government spinners will say it's a pressure valve - that without emigration we'd have bigger problems. They're probably right, though when a country takes the 3rd world mentality of exporting people to prevent problems at home, you have to wonder do we deserve our own land.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

I've met more people arriving from Ireland here in Russia in the last 12 months, actually this year, than I did in the preceding 2-3 years. The embassy here tries to keep tabs on the numbers but most new arrivals don't bother to register and you only bump into them by accident once they've copped on and avoid the "oirish" pubs.

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How many of them were over to just watch the Ireland-Russia game?

I think Russia is still off the track when Irish, and other Westerners want to go somewhere else. Not saying people don't go, a few do obviously, but there are plenty of easier countries to settle in than Russia imo.

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Originally Posted by mypost

How many of them were over to just watch the Ireland-Russia game?

I think Russia is still off the track when Irish, and other Westerners want to go somewhere else. Not saying people don't go, a few do obviously, but there are plenty of easier countries to settle in than Russia imo.

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Ireland played Russia in September, I don't know of such dedicated fans who arrived in May for the build up and who stayed on, likewise those who arrived last February, and last month. So I have a sneaking feeling the football fans have returned home, unless some have been locked up in fleshpot basements for unpaid services or some such.

There's never been a better time to pick up work in Russia, it's always been a good destination for Irish people, throughout the country, obviously Moscow in particular, there are so many leading managers and executives from home. Of course there are the Irish companies doing business here - Mercury, Aer Rianta (though they're easing out) and the various food companies. Irish staff (business) are preferred to British I've found, though teaching can be a little tricky as the British/English have their claws in and are dreadfully biased against Irish staff, though local schools and US/Canadian establishments pay above he norm to get Irish staff in.

Of course there are lots of better/easier countries to settle into, however it depends on the person. If you can't settle in Russia you will not find it easy to settle anywhere else - which then begs the question if you're a) suited to go abroad or b) want to go abroad. There was a guy working with VTB here, quite high up and fairly decent skin, however once he'd done the gentleman's clubs and showed off enough, he fled claiming there was nothing to do in Russia. While the Dr. Johnson saying doesn't quite fit, but saying there's nothing to do in Russia..... :-)

Russian is supposed to be ungodly to learn though, that would be my main concern if I moved over there. Even if there were lots of Irish, I'd feel pretty ignorant just hanging around other ex-pats, a bit like those Brits who retire to the South of France and demand marmalade and the Times with their breakfast, and cringe if they're expected to speak a work of French.