Expectations

Im sorry for posting a new thread. But in my opinion things here have gotten ridiculous. Im usually just a reader of this forum, i like to get the opinions of other irish fans before going to/watching Ireland matches. But the one thing i dont understand, and it has really come to a head now, is that on this forum, there are many prediction threads, and when these predictions come true, nobody is happy. For example, before the andorra game, many people said they would bite someones hand off for a scrappy 1-0 victory. But once the scrappy 2-0 victory happens, there is war, and the calls for 'trap out' begin. Same thing tonight. Everyone said they would take any sort of win against the armenians, tonight we got a 2-1 victory, and again there is major discontent and calls for traps head. I am wondering why these are the hopefull predictions of you fellow ireland fans, and when these predictions come true, there is major dissatisfaction. as an ireland fan myself, im not a fan of our style of play, but i was delighted with our result tonight, as i was with our result in andorra. I am genuinley baffled as to why so many on here make such predictions (i.e. a scrappy 1-0 or 2-1 victory) and then act so shocked and dissapointed when it actually happens. i would love to know you reasoning behing this, as i am tired of seeing prediction threads, seeing peoples hopeful predictions come completely true, and seeing the same people moaning about it. I have the same reservations about the way ireland are playing, but if anyone could explain their dissatisfaction about their own hopeful predictions coming true, i would love to hear them.

I'm just sick of people calling for Trap to be sacked

Completely agree Nugget. I am not traps biggest fan by a longshot, but am sick of people calling for traps head at such a crucial point in qualification, especially after acievening exactly the type of result/performance hoped for by many posters on here pre-match.

The only two managers who got us to major championships should be on at least some of the RTE panels. Charlton or McCarthy would give us some real insight into what it takes to qualify an Irish team for a major championship. Instead we have Dunphy (who was seen as a joke player when he played for Ireland) and Giles who never qualified us for a major finals. They are fully entitled to their opinions but the rubbish Dunphy especially came out with this evening was just pure nonsense. And then you get people parroting almost verbatim Dunphys rant on online forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

The only two managers who got us to major championships should be on at least some of the RTE panels. Charlton or McCarthy would give us some real insight into what it takes to qualify an Irish team for a major championship. Instead we have Dunphy (who was seen as a joke player when he played for Ireland) and Giles who never qualified us for a major finals. They are fully entitled to their opinions but the rubbish Dunphy especially came out with this evening was just pure nonsense. And then you get people parroting almost verbatim Dunphys rant on online forums.

---

Have you seen Charlton lately? Poor fella is getting old if you know what I mean. The last interview I read from him said that he didn't follow football anymore and couldn't name any of the current players. Mick McCarthy has other things to worry about, like keeping Wolves up in the Premiership. I don't think he'd be interested in being a pundit for RTE, not at this point anyway.

After the abuse he took from Dunphy, and knowing where his allegiances are, I doubt Mick would be interested in sitting alongside him ever. Does he still do punditry work for the BBC?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by richieos

Completely agree Nugget. I am not traps biggest fan by a longshot, but am sick of people calling for traps head at such a crucial point in qualification, especially after acievening exactly the type of result/performance hoped for by many posters on here pre-match.

---

Could be that people don't expect to win, and when we do, they have to find something else to whinge about.

We desperately need to get to a tournament. We now have our best chance in 10 years of getting there. Trying to play like Brazil can take a back seat until after we get there. There are many teams that would swap good football for Trap's results, and once again the group phase has been a success. Only 9 points dropped, unbeaten again away from home, a rise in the world rankings, a top seed playoff achieved, and our first tournament won in 25 years, on an aggregate score of 9-0. People forget all that stuff because we play a long ball or two.

There'll always be the bitters and the begrudgers that can't be pleased no matter what we do, but I'm happy with Trap's record and would warmly welcome him staying on, as he wants to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

The only two managers who got us to major championships should be on at least some of the RTE panels. Charlton or McCarthy would give us some real insight into what it takes to qualify an Irish team for a major championship. Instead we have Dunphy (who was seen as a joke player when he played for Ireland) and Giles who never qualified us for a major finals. They are fully entitled to their opinions but the rubbish Dunphy especially came out with this evening was just pure nonsense. And then you get people parroting almost verbatim Dunphys rant on online forums.

---

heres a question... what Irish manager has ever enjoyed the support of our so called expert panels???

the floating Irish football "fan" loves to hear the team getting knocked and most of the panelists / radio experts go along with this for the ride. anyone who wants rid of trap has not really got the good of Irish football in mind. if he goes before the wc qualifiers we will be murdered in our group and will finish 4th. remember this prediction all you trap knockers!

There's a difference between "taking" a scrappy result and being "happy" with the result afterwards. I would have bitten your arm off for a win before the game last night , but in all seriousness - how anyone could be "Happy" with what we produced last night from a footballing and creative point of view is beyond me.

At some stage in the play-off , no matter who we get drawn against, we are going to have to come out, keep the ball, play, create chances and score a goal or two. How anyone can be confident of that happening with this current team, shy of its top strikers is beyond me. Thats the reason people are unhappy. Obviously everyone is happy by in large with the results - but we still haven't qualified and people are thinking how are we going to get the job done?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

At some stage in the play-off , no matter who we get drawn against, we are going to have to come out, keep the ball, play, create chances and score a goal or two.

---

we had to come out and play against france and we did. i believe we can again if required

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbyrne

we had to come out and play against france and we did. i believe we can again if required

---

That was two years ago now - how come we couldn't do it against Slovakia last month ?

To be honest I hope 100% that you are correct - but that's blind belief in my opinion.

It's hard not to be frustrated at the lack of basic team skills shown by this team. I think there's more in this team than we're showing.

I'll take the results over performance all day long, but I think it's fair to ask for improvement when you genuinely believe improvement is possible.

I think that the OP has raised some good points. But the singular thing that has been missed is that its the same people on here who do the bashing over and over again.

The trick is to ignore their opinions and instead pay attention to those more measured in their comments.

I enjoyed a lot if the game last night. I thought that we were never really in much danger of losing to honest. The Armenians didn't turn up and we exploited it. Now, bring on Estonia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

That was two years ago now - how come we couldn't do it against Slovakia last month ?

---

because we didnt have to.

i agree we have gone backwards a bit from two years ago but i still think that if we had no choice but to come out and play we would. may concede 2 or 3 as a result but i reckon we would have a real go at anyone if we really had to

I think we showed in spells last night that we can keep the ball on the floor. If we could find replacements for Whelan & Andrews we'd be a much better team. A confident central midfield pairing would demand the ball off the back 4 & link defence with attack.

I'd understand long ball football if we had Quinn, Cascarino and Jan Koller up top but we don't. Bolton under Big Sam played the percentages when it came to the long ball & showed it can work if you have the right kind of players.
We don't. Players like Kelly seem to panic when in possession & because there is nobody there to help he lumps it long. This can easily be corrected by management by instructing midfield pairing to always show for the ball or just replace em..... yet it happens over and over again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbyrne

because we didnt have to.

i agree we have gone backwards a bit from two years ago but i still think that if we had no choice but to come out and play we would. may concede 2 or 3 as a result but i reckon we would have a real go at anyone if we really had to

---

So the only way this team is going to go out and play is when our backs are really to the wall and we are staring elimination in the face?

No wonder people are miffed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbyrne

because we didnt have to.

i agree we have gone backwards a bit from two years ago but i still think that if we had no choice but to come out and play we would.

---

I don't get the logic of this. Are you really saying that we don't try to play decent football until we need to win a match? Doesn't that suggest that trying to play football would be the best approach all the time?

I don't agree with the OP. The argument seems to be "you're not a real supporter unless you're a cheer leader all the time". That misreads why people like me complain about our approach.

I complain about our approach because I firmly believe we are better than this. When we get the ball down and play, we can compete with all but the top tier teams, which is amazing given our player pool. But when we revert to this negative Trap style, we are muck. Yes, the poorer sides will struggle to beat us, and yes it might get us to play offs when we are in a rubbish group, but we will never reach our potential when we play like this.

I think there's two similar points being covered by the OP - those who predict a scrappy 1-0 win and are annoyed by it after, and those who say they'd bite your hand off at a scrappy 1-0 win and are annoyed by it after. Nothing wrong with predicting a crap game and being annoyed when you're right. If you say you'd be happy with a scrappy 1-0 win and then aren't, then yeah, that's a bit silly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gormacha

I don't get the logic of this. Are you really saying that we don't try to play decent football until we need to win a match? Doesn't that suggest that trying to play football would be the best approach all the time?

---

coming out and playing a passing game where our ctre midfield and full backs push on etc has risks associated with it potentially leaving us open. we only take this kind or risk when we absolutely have to

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gormacha

it might get us to play offs when we are in a rubbish group, but we will never reach our potential when we play like this.

---

what potential exactly? id say we are exceeding it given the players we have

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbyrne

coming out and playing a passing game where our ctre midfield and full backs push on etc has risks associated with it potentially leaving us open. we only take this kind or risk when we absolutely have to

---

Football is never as black and white as this. You can play a passing game that doesn't involve suicidal all out attack - you could pass whilst play a diamond midfield, or playing with a holding midfielder, or you could play 4-2-3-1, or, or, or...

Its about trusting your players to be able to pass to each other, to not bypass midfield as though its an out and out risk to involve your midfielders, and to give your forwards something other than balls coming out of the clouds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbyrne

what potential exactly? id say we are exceeding it given the players we have

---

Perhaps we disagree on the quality of our players. Of the starting eleven last night, eight play at EPL clubs, one is in the top flight of Russian football, one is at a Championship club on loan from an EPL club, and the other plays for one of the better Championship sides. Given all that, I would trust them to get the ball down on the deck and pass it to one another.