Crowds at non-league games / candidates for expansion

Does anyone know anything about crowds at non-league games (Leinster Senior League, Munster Senior League etc) ?

Do any of these teams have what could be descibed as a real following (beyond friends and family of the players, club members etc), say 100, 200 or so fans ?

Do any of them charge admission for games ? Do any of them pay their players anything ?

Which non-league teams do you think would be best suited to joining the FD / A-League, would be most likely to create a following ?

Same questions for the A-League teams (Tullamore etc) - do they charge for admission ?

Greystones AFC get a good little crowd sometimes. They wouldn't have the required resources need to go into the LOI though. Unless, the unthinkable happens which is an amalgamation of Greystones United and AFC.

I think Salthill and Mervue are good examples of why teams like that should stay where they are. Unless as Riddickcule says there is an amalgamation of some sort.

Maybe if both Mullingar teams came together and set up then they might have a chance, Town is quite big too.

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Originally Posted by Riddickcule

Greystones AFC get a good little crowd sometimes. They wouldn't have the required resources need to go into the LOI though. Unless, the unthinkable happens which is an amalgamation of Greystones United and AFC.

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what resources would they need ?

is the diference between how much it costs to run an A-Championship side vis a vis a LSL team that much ?

if we could have more Leinster teams we could regionalise the A-Championship so that there was a Leinster Division covering more or less the same area as the LSL, meaning travel costs shouldn't be an issue

maybe even have a Dublin division if teams are still worried about transport

Ulster, Connacht would be problematic

a Munster division might be more feasible

but a Leinster division seems very possible. why would LSL teams not be interested if costs remained more or less the same ?

I'd love to see all senior football linked up one day through promotion and relegation - maybe have a big PD (18 or 20 teams), two or three first divisions (east south and and north west for example) and maybe 5 or 6 regional divisions below that. FAI could give teams some money (say 5-10k) to subsidise travel costs in the FD for fist couple of years

is this totally unrealistic ?

as for grounds, don't introduce too many requirements (unless they get promoted to the PD) unless grounds are dangerous they should be allowed use them. I think ground requirements can scare teams away and are at times excessive

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Originally Posted by **FrOsTy**

I think Salthill and Mervue are good examples of why teams like that should stay where they are. Unless as Riddickcule says there is an amalgamation of some sort.

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if they can afford it let them continue in the league. if they go back down its not a big problem. the more teams we let in the more chance we have of finding ones that can can survive long term (like Bray, Monaghan and Cobh who joined all in 1985)

The more teams the better I think - I suppose you could argue having multiple teams from one town (Galway) is bad (although I'm not sure their crowds have affected Galway Utd) but most new teams would be from towns that don't have sides or are big enough to support more (Cork and Dublin)

Sporting Castleisland (kerry district league) get decent crowds. Apparently they are heavily backed financially and pay their players €150 per game. Usually poaching players from other KDL teams. A LOI application is imminent and they aim to be in the Premier division in 3 years and european football in 4 years.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

Sporting Castleisland (kerry district league) get decent crowds. Apparently they are heavily backed financially and pay their players €150 per game. Usually poaching players from other KDL teams. A LOI application is imminent and they aim to be in the Premier division in 3 years and european football in 4 years.

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I hope Tony Soprano doesn't see this post!!!

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Originally Posted by Tony Soprano

I'd love to see all senior football linked up one day through promotion and relegation - maybe have a big PD (18 or 20 teams), two or three first divisions (east south and and north west for example) and maybe 5 or 6 regional divisions below that. FAI could give teams some money (say 5-10k) to subsidise travel costs in the FD for fist couple of years

is this totally unrealistic ?

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Some great ideas there Tony Saprano. Especailly the one above. As I mentioned in another thread, I think expanding the league is the only way to go. It could be argued that it would reduce the quality as there isn't enough 'strong' teams out there. However, the high standard in the first division this year is showing that there is teams first division who could compete in the top tier. Derry & Cork two massive clubs, others like Limerick, Waterford, Finn Harps, Shels and so on have potential. Okay may be getting a bit ahead of myself but I always felt an amalgamation of the League of Ireland with the Northern Irish league would be a good idea, there is 2-3 big teams up there who could add to this league - eg. Glentoran & Linfield. However, doubt it would ever happen due to a number of complications, including a possibility of sectarian violence & also co-operation between the IFA & FAI.

Never heard of Sporting Castleisland, sounds like they have ambitious plans. Would be great to see a team from Kerry compete in the LOI.

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Originally Posted by Dillonman

Maybe if both Mullingar teams came together and set up then they might have a chance, Town is quite big too.

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Never going to happen, hate each other

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Originally Posted by Tony Soprano

is this totally unrealistic ?

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Yes it is.

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Originally Posted by Tony Soprano

Does anyone know anything about crowds at non-league games (Leinster Senior League, Munster Senior League etc) ?

Do any of these teams have what could be descibed as a real following (beyond friends and family of the players, club members etc), say 100, 200 or so fans ?

Do any of them charge admission for games ? Do any of them pay their players anything ?

Which non-league teams do you think would be best suited to joining the FD / A-League, would be most likely to create a following ?

Same questions for the A-League teams (Tullamore etc) - do they charge for admission ?

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There's a few junior/intermediate clubs with decent crowds alright

Sporting Tipperary North Riding have inherited Thurles Town's mantle, and attract a decent crowd. It's hard to think of any reason why they shouldn't be welcome into the league.

Deportivo Navan have an excellent set-up and a lot of junior clubs, so have always pulled in a crowd.

I'm also told there's a team made up largely of refugees who used to be based in Mosney, called Sporting Amuustach. They seem to have really captured the imagination of a sizeable portion of the non-nationals in inner city North Dublin, so could well prove to be the Irish answer to Glasgow Celtic.

Big opportunity for such clubs to really make a name for themselves.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

There's a few junior/intermediate clubs with decent crowds alright

Sporting Tipperary North Riding have inherited Thurles Town's mantle, and attract a decent crowd. It's hard to think of any reason why they shouldn't be welcome into the league.

Deportivo Navan have an excellent set-up and a lot of junior clubs, so have always pulled in a crowd.

I'm also told there's a team made up largely of refugees who used to be based in Mosney, called Sporting Amuustach. They seem to have really captured the imagination of a sizeable portion of the non-nationals in inner city North Dublin, so could well prove to be the Irish answer to Glasgow Celtic.

Big opportunity for such clubs to really make a name for themselves.

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Don't forget Dynamo Abbeyleix. Heard they got an average gate of 450 last season. Hope they apply for LOI status. There only problem might be passing rule 5.7 subsection 3. Otherwise known as the "Silly name" criteria.

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Originally Posted by Guinney

Some great ideas there Tony Saprano. Especailly the one above. As I mentioned in another thread, I think expanding the league is the only way to go. It could be argued that it would reduce the quality as there isn't enough 'strong' teams out there. However, the high standard in the first division this year is showing that there is teams first division who could compete in the top tier. Derry & Cork two massive clubs, others like Limerick, Waterford, Finn Harps, Shels and so on have potential. Okay may be getting a bit ahead of myself but I always felt an amalgamation of the League of Ireland with the Northern Irish league would be a good idea, there is 2-3 big teams up there who could add to this league - eg. Glentoran & Linfield. However, doubt it would ever happen due to a number of complications, including a possibility of sectarian violence & also co-operation between the IFA & FAI.

Never heard of Sporting Castleisland, sounds like they have ambitious plans. Would be great to see a team from Kerry compete in the LOI.

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merging with the Irish League (and all lower divisions up north too) would be great but as you say cooperation between IFA and FAI is a big problem. big issues at the moment regarding NI players declaring for the Republic (Daniel Kearns case at the moment is before the CAS in Zurich).

a merged league may be seen as a threat to the IFA's future, the spectre of a single UK team or single Ireland teamis is always there. and without a separate league they may feel it will harder to justify the continuation of the NI team

I don't think sectarian violence would be as big an issue as some might fear. setanta games have been generally ok.

Sporting Castelisland was a wind up I think

Tullamore, Tralee and castlebar still field teams in their old leagues (LSL, KDL and mayo) Does anyone know how this works ? Are they separate squads or do some players play in both (when season's don't overlap) ?

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Originally Posted by **FrOsTy**

I think Salthill and Mervue are good examples of why teams like that should stay where they are. Unless as Riddickcule says there is an amalgamation of some sort.

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Two times nothing is still nothing.

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Originally Posted by gufcfan

Two times nothing is still nothing.

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Where were you when Nick leeson needed you most?

I wasn't pointing out that Salthill and Mervue should amalgamate. Sorry should of cleared that up. If the likes of Clonmel Town/ Clonmel Celtic/ Carrick United amalgamated then there would be a decent side from Tipperary which 2 big(ish) areas would have a team to support. I remember Carrick brought a heap of fans to the FAI Junior Cup Final v Killester a few years back. There is also a lot of good players from the area.

A big part of the problem is the fragmentation of the leagues. Junior clubs don't like the LOI, and they don't like each other. Football in Ireland would be far better served by junior clubs merging, and having big teams in say Navan, Ennis, Nenagh, Mullingar, Mallow, Clonmel, Portlaoise, etc., but the way things are at the moment, any clubs that tries to do that is just going to be held back by waves of begrudgery from other football clubs in the region. Look at Tralee Dynamos and the KDL.

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

A big part of the problem is the fragmentation of the leagues. Junior clubs don't like the LOI, and they don't like each other. Football in Ireland would be far better served by junior clubs merging, and having big teams in say Navan, Ennis, Nenagh, Mullingar, Mallow, Clonmel, Portlaoise, etc., but the way things are at the moment, any clubs that tries to do that is just going to be held back by waves of begrudgery from other football clubs in the region. Look at Tralee Dynamos and the KDL.

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why is that ? the relationship between LOI clubs and non-league / junior clubs / schoolboy clubs and leagues always seems to have been poor

would be great to have clubs from those towns. Portlaoise were close to joining this year I think

things wont progress they way we all want simply because the people in charge are irish and 99% of irish people don't like change or to feel like they wont have the same power they once had for the greater good of everyone else, to many self interested 'insert sweary mean sounding bold banned name'

Football in Ireland will always stay as it is because it doesn't suit the FAI or the senior and junior ranks to change. Look at the crap new clubs suffer when they pop their heads above the parapet - the 2 Galway clubs, Sporting Fingal - the begrudgery and nastiness thrown at them from "fans" is beyond the pale. Wexford have escaped somewhat because people are not sure of what to make of it, plus they're tipping along nicely. No matter what Irish "fans" won't be happy, clubs will divide and fight and the FAI will divide and conquer. The clubs, with their whinging and complaining, had a chance to knock the stuffing out of the FAI lately with the LOI deal, but they simply lined up, kissed Lord Delaney's ring, dropped trou's, turned around and well, we know the rest.

Joined up thinking isn't a strong feature of football in general, and in the LOI it's an anathema!