Bohs SCP discussion

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30/12/2009, 1:01 PM
micls

Bohs SCP discussion

I dont know what the fuss about Bohs signing players is.

People are making it out as if it's a big secret whether the embargo will be lifted or not and only the FAI know.

If Bohs finished the season under 65% it will be lifted, given that Bohs will know their exact income and expenditure they will already be well aware if the embargo will be lifted or not, regardless of official confirmation. Its not a case of the FAi just deciding they dont want them to sign players, itl just come down to the numbers.

Bohs obviously believe they are under 65% and in fairness, they should know so I dont see why they shouldnt be signing players, the rest will simply be a formality (unless Bohs accountants literally cannot count)

Whether its smart to be signing what would be seen to be 'big money' players is another story.
30/12/2009, 1:07 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

Bohs obviously believe they are under 65% and in fairness, they should know so I dont see why they shouldnt be signing players

In fairness, that's a bit naive. It's perfectly logical (and I'm not saying this is what's happening before Bohs fans go mad) that the Bohs directors see 2010 as their last chance saloon, and so they want to spend as much as possible assembling the squad they feel will give them the best chance at CL/UEFA Cup group qualification. They may feel an extra E1m of debt is worth the gamble of trying to clear it all. Desperate times call for desperate measures and all that.
30/12/2009, 1:15 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

In fairness, that's a bit naive. It's perfectly logical (and I'm not saying this is what's happening before Bohs fans go mad) that the Bohs directors see 2010 as their last chance saloon, and so they want to spend as much as possible assembling the squad they feel will give them the best chance at CL/UEFA Cup group qualification. They may feel an extra E1m of debt is worth the gamble of trying to clear it all. Desperate times call for desperate measures and all that.

It's not logical though. Because if that were the case, and they werent under last years 65%, then the embargo won't be lifted and these players won't be able to playe anyway, something Im sure the Bohs board are well aware of.

The rest of your post is still quite possible as it's not linked to last years embargo at all, hence my sentence about whether signing all these players is a smart thing or not, but that will be for next seasons wage cap, not this one.
30/12/2009, 1:17 PM
Doomofman

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

It's not logical though. Because if that were the case, and they werent under last years 65%, then the embargo won't be lifted and these players won't be able to playe anyway, something Im sure the Bohs board are well aware of.

The rest of your post is still quite possible as it's not linked to last years embargo at all, hence my sentence about whether signing all these players is a smart thing or not, but that will be for next seasons wage cap, not this one.

I dunno... It's the FAI... I'd imagine the embargo will be lifted... Can't imagine Bohs would have enough players to make a squad if it wasn't... Unless not many of their squad was out of contract at the end of the season
30/12/2009, 1:32 PM
Longfordian

I wouldn't be surprised if Bohs feel they have the basis of a deal agreed to settle the dispute over Dalymount. There was a lot of talk of them coming to an arrangement to sell it to Pascal Conroy who was the developer who had taken them to court. Obviously Liam Carroll is in the mix there too but by the looks of things he's in no position to follow through on the original deal anyway.
30/12/2009, 2:13 PM
Dalymountrower

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomofman

I dunno... It's the FAI... I'd imagine the embargo will be lifted... Can't imagine Bohs would have enough players to make a squad if it wasn't... Unless not many of their squad was out of contract at the end of the season

A lot of imagining going on here. The reality is that Bohs have established their budget for 2010. They have signed players within that budget and may sign one or two more given that Deegans departure has freed up a bigger than average wage and that there may also be some transfer/compensation arising from that. In the extremely unlikely event of If FAI not agreeing to register those players, it will be for a reason other than the SCP protocol for 2009 or for the 2010 projected budget

pineapple stu

In fairness, that's a bit naive. It's perfectly logical (and I'm not saying this is what's happening before Bohs fans go mad) that the Bohs directors see 2010 as their last chance saloon, and so they want to spend as much as possible assembling the squad they feel will give them the best chance at CL/UEFA Cup group qualification. They may feel an extra E1m of debt is worth the gamble of trying to clear it all. Desperate times call for desperate measures and all that.

So can we be clear that you are saying that you are not saying that any of the above is happening or are you saying that its logical that some of the above might happen and you would like to record your objections in advance if they do?.
30/12/2009, 2:29 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomofman

I dunno... It's the FAI... I'd imagine the embargo will be lifted... Can't imagine Bohs would have enough players to make a squad if it wasn't... Unless not many of their squad was out of contract at the end of the season

Bohs know by now if the embargo will be lifted or not.

Im not saying it's sensible to buy all these players, I'm saying the FAi is not going to stop them as some people were claiming above.
30/12/2009, 2:31 PM
Doomofman

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

Bohs know by now if the embargo will be lifted or not.

Im not saying it's sensible to buy all these players, I'm saying the FAi is not going to stop them as some people were claiming above.

That's what I was trying to say... I just don't know if Bohs would have a squad or not if the embargo wasn't lifted...
30/12/2009, 2:32 PM
SkStu

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

In fairness, that's a bit naive. It's perfectly logical (and I'm not saying this is what's happening before Bohs fans go mad) that the Bohs directors see 2010 as their last chance saloon, and so they want to spend as much as possible assembling the squad they feel will give them the best chance at CL/UEFA Cup group qualification. They may feel an extra E1m of debt is worth the gamble of trying to clear it all. Desperate times call for desperate measures and all that.

Stu, im going to assume you know more than your letting on and that your post is a bit of an attempt to stir...

Theres 2 issues with Bohs:-

Short Term. We have slashed our budget again this year and have plans for marketing and fundraising all season long. I am confident that staying within the SCP again wont be an issue this year. Good players are available for far cheaper wages this off season (hence the quality of our signings) and we have released all our high earners bar Byrne and Heary. CL qualification shouldnt and im assuming wont figure in our budget this year.

Long Term. Its common knowledge that we have a large overdraft that is due for repayment within a couple of years. The new board are examining ways to pay for the sins of the previous board and it seems likely that this will be achieved through selling Dalymount (properly this time). Im confident in their ability to do that. Its not ideal but that is where the lack of professionalism and stupidity of the previous board has left us.

Please bear in mind that this is coming from a fan. Im speaking for myself and its just my opinion of things and i could very well be wrong. I dont expect my post to be forensically examined for faint traces of inaccuracy or bull**** cos, truth be told, youll probably find some - ive dabbled in the past.
30/12/2009, 2:34 PM
Doomofman

I know this is off topic and a long way down the road but.. where would Bohs go if they sell Dalymount?
30/12/2009, 2:43 PM
placid casual

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomofman

I know this is off topic and a long way down the road but.. where would Bohs go if they sell Dalymount?

The 12 acres is normally quiet during ther summer months is it not?
every little helps;)
30/12/2009, 3:06 PM
Ezeikial

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

.............unless Bohs accountants literally cannot count

Thats an outrageous suggestion! What possible evidence have you got for this?
30/12/2009, 4:22 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkStu

Stu, im going to assume you know more than your letting on and that your post is a bit of an attempt to stir...

Not everything you don't want to hear is a stir, SkStu. However, at the risk of going off topic, I'll just very briefly back it up for you if you want.

First off, as stated, my post was a theory to fit micls' post. I'm obviously not stating it's true. That seems to have confused dalymountrower, so I'll say it again here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkStu

I am confident that staying within the SCP again wont be an issue this year. Good players are available for far cheaper wages this off season

Your part on selling Dalymount again to clear debts makes perfect sense. I don't share your confidence in getting under 65%, however, and I've not seen any back up for this other than "The board told us".

In last year's accounts, total income was E3.05m, and players' wages were E1.95m - SCP% of 64%. Hence, you get a licence for 2009.

I think it's fair to say that Liam Carroll won't be paying E1m this year - partly because he's currently sueing you over the deal, and partly because he doesn't have any money. Take that money out, and let's say everything else stays the same (obviously open for debate), and you need to take E600k off wages to meet the 65% cap.

In addition, I think this year, the SCP changes from players only to players and management/technical staff. In that case, you need to take E1m off your wage budget - halve it, in other words. I appreciate you saying the wages bill has been reduced, but you'll understand that people are very sceptical as to whether enough has been done, particularly given you're already under a transfer embargo for exceeding 65% from early on in the year.

The alternative is that you need to find an extra E1.5m in income on last year to meet the 65% cap (the E1m from Liam Carroll plus the E400k managers' salaries grossed up by 65%). You'll understand that people are sceptical as to whether that's been done also.

I know you'd like all negative talk about Bohs to be stopped, but those are some facts, and I think it's fair for people to wonder about Bohs signing new players at the moment.
30/12/2009, 4:37 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Not everything you don't want to hear is a stir, SkStu. However, at the risk of going off topic, I'll just very briefly back it up for you if you want.

First off, as stated, my post was a theory to fit micls' post.

But my post was about last years salary cap, and people claiming Bohs shouldnt be signing people because of the transfer embargo, and you seem to be talking about next year's salary cap in your posts, which is a completely different matter.
30/12/2009, 4:44 PM
LukeO

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think it's fair to say that Liam Carroll won't be paying E1m this year - partly because he's currently sueing you over the deal, and partly because he doesn't have any money.

Is he?
30/12/2009, 4:51 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

But my post was about last year's salary cap, and people claiming Bohs shouldnt be signing people because of the transfer embargo, and you seem to be talking about next year's salary cap in your posts, which is a completely different matter.

I'm talking about the 2009 salary cap (I'm extrapolating 2009 figures from 2008's accounts), which is the same as you're talking about here (I think) -

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

If Bohs finished the season under 65% it will be lifted, given that Bohs will know their exact income and expenditure[...]Bohs obviously believe they are under 65% and in fairness, they should know so I dont see why they shouldnt be signing players

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeO

Is he?

I apologise; you're appealing the decision to the Supreme Court at the moment; either way, the point is that Carroll is unlikely to be paying the E1m in 2009 (which you seem to agree with given you didn't challenge that part of my post).
30/12/2009, 4:56 PM
Longfordian

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I apologise; you're appealing the decision to the Supreme Court at the moment; either way, the point is that Carroll is unlikely to be paying the E1m in 2009 (which you seem to agree with given you didn't challenge that part of my post).

That's Albion Properties, headed by Pascal Conroy, not Liam Carroll. As I said in a previous post, I reckon Bohs will do a deal to sell Dalyer to Albion at a lower price than Carroll's deal.
30/12/2009, 4:58 PM
SkStu

fair enough Stu, i get that you werent having a go and your questions, at face value, appear valid. Unfortunately im just an exiled fan who contributes as much as possible to the club i love but i dont have the answers to your questions and the last person who tried answering some questions here got banned.

I have faith in the way the club has conducted its business since the new board was elected. The fans, members and club have never been so united in moving Bohemians forward the right way. I take hope from that but i guess i will have to wait and see in terms of the points you have raised.

What gets me is that Bohemians have been touted as dead on its feet since i started reading this forum and the fact is that, despite the division in the club due to its being run by a pack of fools for a long, long time, we are still standing, still paying players wages, still paying bills, still successful and this is all after the (relative) demises of Rovers, Shels, Drogheda, Cobh, Limerick, Kilkenny City, Dublin City, Derry and Cork.

Like i said, things are not perfect but i have confidence in our current board. We'll just have to wait and see.
30/12/2009, 5:06 PM
LukeO

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I apologise; you're appealing the decision to the Supreme Court at the moment; either way, the point is that Carroll is unlikely to be paying the E1m in 2009 (which you seem to agree with given you didn't challenge that part of my post).

You can infer whatever you like.

We aren't involved in any court cases with Liam Carroll (not at the moment anyway!), it was Pascal Conroy who we were up against in court. At least get your basic facts straight. Otherwise it makes you look like you haven't a clue what you're talking about..................

Anyway, keep up Stuey - http://www.independent.ie/business/i...l-1935831.html , http://www.thebohs.com/forum/viewtop...bb46d7e#212093
30/12/2009, 5:09 PM
SkStu

welcome back LukeO, it seems my relentless campaign to have you reinstated worked. ;)

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