The great stadium debate

One of the big suggestions everyone always makes for improvement of the league is to build new purpose-built stadia for all the teams.

I think it's strange that over in the UK, there's a lot of nostalgia and regret that the original stadia are being left behind, and clubs are moving to modern arenas, which are invariably described as "soulless"

I'm not a veteran of many grounds, but I'd far rather visit a stadium with character, like Dalymount or Tolka, following the glow of the floodlights behind houses and through streets, than visit some sanitised windswept lego block in an industrial estate by the M50.

Okay, so the stadia aren't perfect as they are. Many stands could use roofs, some of them are a wee bit crumbly, and the toilet and food facilities are often shocking, but these are all problems that are fixable, and fixable for significantly less cost than building an entire new ground from scratch.

People talk about the "Tallaght effect" for Rovers, but my opinion is that this is because the TCS is new, rather than inherently better than say, Dalymount or Turners Cross. There are better ways to generate a buzz about a club than upping sticks and moving to a housing estate.

In that phrase so beloved on talk radio

"What's your point caller"

New stadium have a significant positive revenue effect, numerous studies prove it.

Misxty eyed nostalgia. It isn't what it used to be you know.

I'm not aware of any club who moves stadium to improve atmosphere. There's a zillion other very solid reaons why Irish clubs would want to leave what are largely ramshackle stadiums.

And I don't buy into the idea that a stadium itself creates atmosphere. The key ingredient is the fans. People talk about the 'Hampden Roar'. Go along to watch Queen Park play there and you'd more likely to hear the 'Hampden Pin drop'.

So yes - stadiums can really help an atmosphere, but it's the fans which are the key ingredient. And it's the fans we need in our league, and arguably the crumbling stadiums are deterring rather than helping in that. Dalymount once had a great reputation for atmosphere, but it's now a crumbling wreck that can't create one due to Health and Safety restrictions.

What our league needs is good quality facilities. Otherwise, we'll become even more of an irrelevance. I have no strong preference as to whether those facilities are in a new or an antique stadium - so long as they're there. And anyone who's visited Tallaght can confirm it is a much more impressive facility than the semi-derelict Dalymount

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Originally Posted by MariborKev

"What's your point caller"

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Tallaght Stadium is shit, na-na-na-na.

the roof in tallaght covers f**k all of the seats. i was about 10 rows from the back wall on sunday and the ground was soaked and people were getting wet. the east stand has no glass protection on the 2 ends like the west stand has. are these being completed

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Originally Posted by stovelid

Tallaght Stadium is shit, na-na-na-na.

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It wasn't, actually. I like Tallaght Stadium, and it's definitely a lot better for Rovers than being homeless!

The issue with facilities is all to do with parents and kids.

The things that the hardcore like: character, history, masochistic acceptance/celebration of shit facilities and the like, is all well and good but the only people taking kids along to LOI at the minute are devotees passing on the flame to their kids. It's exactly these derided "sanitized" facilities in places like Tallaght that will draw uninitiated families and their kids along for a evening out - kids who may well become supporters eventually.

good atmosphere at the SDCC Stadium alright.

i think most singing fans would prefer stadiums with roof where the sound can travel.

i like new stadiums and facilties, it attracts more people, altho when ya see a brand new stadium that it empty at matches it does look bad (the riverside for example)

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Originally Posted by stovelid

The things that the hardcore like: character, history, masochistic acceptance/celebration of shit facilities and the like, is all well and good but the only people taking kids along to LOI at the minute are devotees passing on the flame to their kids. It's exactly these derided "sanitized" facilities in places like Tallaght that will draw uninitiated families and their kids along for a evening out - kids who may well become supporters eventually.

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So your saying keep the crap facilities so it can stay a hardcore only club :confused: Thats insane! I hope that comment is just a windup.
Isn't it better to start attracting the uninitiated families rather than the 100/200 odd 'hardcore' fans that turn up at most grounds. 99% of clubs in this country would bite the hand off you for the first option.
Any stadium needs time for it to build an atmosphere, it doesn't just happen over night. But I'm sure if you were to ask any football fan in 5 years time whether they prefer Lansdowne Road or Aviva (when supporters have settled into the stadium and grown an atmosphere) they'll go for better facilities every time.

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Originally Posted by sixesandsevens

So your saying keep the crap facilities so it can stay a hardcore only club :confused: Thats insane! I hope that comment is just a windup. Isn't it better to start attracting the uninitiated families rather than the 100/200 odd 'hardcore' fans that turn up at most grounds.

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I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying only the committed supporter will put up with bad facilities, but if you improve the facilities you get the families in whose kids may well become the committed supporters of the future.

Different people are affected by different things.
For most people, i would say they don't go to Loi because of the naff ground.Or the quality of the play but thats a different conversation altogether.
Having said that, i wasn't attracted to support Bray because of the ground, it wasn't even the quality of the football it was the passionate support of the fans, which what was attracting my mate who then urged me to come along to a game.

Using us as an example, no doubt the gaff is a state.But when (if) we get our redevelopment finished, and if we're back in the PD, i think it'll have an effect on crowds, i really do.
Every clubs situation is different, Rovers have their new ground which they shall continue to develop and will become a class stadium in a football mad community.
Dalyer's a state but Bohs should be moving to the new ground which should be great aswell, hopefully they could also do a rovers on the northside and stem the rivalry even further.
I mean Athlone's ground is class, Galways is class, Corks is good.

I think the FAI should take ownership of some grounds and develop them because we need a decent range of football stadia in this country which we currently do not have.
We have to use a rugby ground in Limerick, there should be a decent enough football ground to use down there, same with Cork for example.

yes i may be an absolute dreamer :) but this is the type of stadium i would love to see throughout the league. Its got a capacity of just under 11,000 and is a great fascility. it would be fantastic if this was the quality of football grounds through even 50% of the league.
http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/Nor/Nye_Molde.html

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Originally Posted by bishbash

yes i may be an absolute dreamer :) but this is the type of stadium i would love to see throughout the league. Its got a capacity of just under 11,000 and is a great fascility. it would be fantastic if this was the quality of football grounds through even 50% of the league.
http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/Nor/Nye_Molde.html

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There's absolutely no need for stadiums of that capacity in the LOI... Hell a 3000 capacity would be more than enough for pretty much any club in the league... Fancy stadiums are great and all but you need the people to fill them which we just don't have over here

But is that not the whole point? that we have a really good league here with good facilities and good support in numbers. I fully take what your saying i know the majority of clubs dont even get 3000 and then teams cant sustain their playing staff as a result. The thing about the type of stadium i was talking about is that it opens up the possibility of use for other spectacles such as concerts that can be a huge earner. Munster have done very well in this regard with concerts at thomond. This could be a real possibilty for dublin clubs with the obvious advantage of the population in dublin city and surrounding areas.

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Originally Posted by bishbash

But is that not the whole point? that we have a really good league here with good facilities and good support in numbers. I fully take what your saying i know the majority of clubs dont even get 3000 and then teams cant sustain their playing staff as a result. The thing about the type of stadium i was talking about is that it opens up the possibility of use for other spectacles such as concerts that can be a huge earner. Munster have done very well in this regard with concerts at thomond. This could be a real possibilty for dublin clubs with the obvious advantage of the population in dublin city and surrounding areas.

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But I don't think Ireland is in need of venues like that...

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Originally Posted by Doomofman

But I don't think Ireland is in need of venues like that...

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thats where i disagree i think the league is in real need of venues like that as i think they will help generate more interest and as said before it makes games more family friendly. I'm talkin about areas such as dublin, waterford, galway, cork, limerick. places that theoretically have the population to fill the grounds. i think quality grounds holding between 7-10 thousand would be fantastic for the league.

I hate to complain about it, but for a Cup Final I expected a bit better in Tallaght Stadium. The food was overpriced and the toilet facilities for the people in the North Stand was nothing short of being shocking, 4 portable jacks for 1000+ people, with sinks that dont work and flush handle that looks like the brake of a car (which didnt work either). Sat in horrible conditions, hope I never have to sit their again with the wind and rain coming right at me for 90 mins+ an hour and half before k/o and half time. Abysmal showing for a Cup Final IMO. Hats off to those who went to the trouble of putting in those seats, but I tought the facilites provided made me, and nearly everyone their feel we were treated like sh!t in terms of facilites. Tallaght will need to improve big time for the 2010 Cup Final.

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Originally Posted by Riddickcule

Different people are affected by different things.
For most people, i would say they don't go to Loi because of the naff ground.Or the quality of the play but thats a different conversation altogether.
Having said that, i wasn't attracted to support Bray because of the ground, it wasn't even the quality of the football it was the passionate support of the fans, which what was attracting my mate who then urged me to come along to a game.

Using us as an example, no doubt the gaff is a state.But when (if) we get our redevelopment finished, and if we're back in the PD, i think it'll have an effect on crowds, i really do.
Every clubs situation is different, Rovers have their new ground which they shall continue to develop and will become a class stadium in a football mad community.
Dalyer's a state but Bohs should be moving to the new ground which should be great aswell, hopefully they could also do a rovers on the northside and stem the rivalry even further.
I mean Athlone's ground is class, Galways is class, Corks is good.

I think the FAI should take ownership of some grounds and develop them because we need a decent range of football stadia in this country which we currently do not have.
We have to use a rugby ground in Limerick, there should be a decent enough football ground to use down there, same with Cork for example.

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wouldnt agree there.. the one stand they have is grand but sure thats all it is. not saying flancare is amazing or anything but if it was finished and had a roof the whole way around i think i would be perfect for 80% of clubs here

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Originally Posted by sligofan4ever

Tallaght will need to improve big time for the 2010 Cup Final.

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I heard facilities were so bad there's absolutely no chance of Tallaght Stadium hosting the 2010 final ;) .

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Originally Posted by sligofan4ever

Tallaght will need to improve big time for the 2010 Cup Final.

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Hopefully the cup final will be moved back to Lansdowne Road.