Setanta cup as an all Ireland league...

Looking over the thread about the Setanta cup it seems like there's a fair amount of apathy towards the Setanta cup this season. Is it time to reformat the competition and create an all Ireland league type competition out of it?

Maybe have the top three, cup, and league cup winners from each jurisdiction in a 10 team league. Obviously home and away would be out due to the amount of games, but could play each other once, so guaranteeing nine games per team. Not sure how to overcome the "we only got 4 home games" argument.

Anyway, to give it a bit of pizazz, first and second in the league after 9 games play off in a grand final, a la Aussie rules.

I guess a single group competition would be a good barometer for fans attitude towards an all Ireland league, but without endangering CL and EL places for each association and the men in suits keep their castles.

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Originally Posted by rerun

Looking over the thread about the Setanta cup it seems like there's a fair amount of apathy towards the Setanta cup this season. Is it time to reformat the competition and create an all Ireland league type competition out of it?

Maybe have the top three, cup, and league cup winners from each jurisdiction in a 10 team league. Obviously home and away would be out due to the amount of games, but could play each other once, so guaranteeing nine games per team. Not sure how to overcome the "we only got 4 home games" argument.

Anyway, to give it a bit of pizazz, first and second in the league after 9 games play off in a grand final, a la Aussie rules.

I guess a single group competition would be a good barometer for fans attitude towards an all Ireland league, but without endangering CL and EL places for each association and the men in suits keep their castles.

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I don't see why we can't play home and away. Irish League teams could foresake the likes of the North West Cup/County Antrim Shield/Mid Ulster Cup and then let in to the teams of the AIL into the League cup at a later stage similar to those teams who are in europe join the carling cup in the 3rd round.

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Originally Posted by rerun

Looking over the thread about the Setanta cup it but without endangering CL and EL places for each association and the men in suits keep their castles.

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Exactly! A AIL is the way to go. A 12 ream split with the best 12 clubs on the Island (Not a even split of teams)

An All Ireland Cup would be great, get rid of the League Cup and include both sides of the border. Just play it as a knock out competition though. Big sponsors would jump at it thus stumping up big money for the winners.
If Sky Sports came on board it could be a great boost to local football on the Island.

God its been ages since there was an All Ireland Legaue thread

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Looking over the thread about the Setanta cup it seems like there's a fair amount of apathy towards the Setanta cup this season. Is it time to reformat the competition and create an all Ireland league type competition out of it?

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I thought thats what the Setanta cup already was.

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Irish League teams could foresake the likes of the North West Cup/County Antrim Shield/Mid Ulster Cup

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Sure feck tradition and all that.

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If Sky Sports came on board it could be a great boost to local football on the Island.

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I'd say they would prefer if both leagues died tbh, they only show IL games as its contractual with the IFA to screen Internationals.

An open draw all Ireland cup replacing the third competitions north and south would need to be seen to work before an AIL is considered. The spoof merchants at platinum one were talking up the impact an AIL would have on attendances, but the only all Ireland competition we have has consistently failed to capture the imagination of the supporters of those teams involved, nevermind the wider public's imagination.

I think people way overestimate the impact of bringing Cliftonville to Waterford or UCD to Dungannon,

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I think people way overestimate the impact of bringing Cliftonville to Waterford or UCD to Dungannon

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agreed.. the big games might get crowds but not the smaller teams and then waht happens to the teams in the lower tier. Also people ignore the extra traveling that teams and supporters will have to overcome i doubt beople in cork would be delighted about traveling 300 miles or more evey week

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Originally Posted by tiktok

An open draw all Ireland cup replacing the third competitions north and south would need to be seen to work before an AIL is considered. The spoof merchants at platinum one were talking up the impact an AIL would have on attendances, but the only all Ireland competition we have has consistently failed to capture the imagination of the supporters of those teams involved, nevermind the wider public's imagination.

I think people way overestimate the impact of bringing Cliftonville to Waterford or UCD to Dungannon,

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Originally Posted by Acornvilla

agreed.. the big games might get crowds but not the smaller teams and then waht happens to the teams in the lower tier. Also people ignore the extra traveling that teams and supporters will have to overcome i doubt beople in cork would be delighted about traveling 300 miles or more evey week

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I take your points lads but no competition that runs on two side of the calendar and on Tuesday nights was ever going to capture the imagination. I think whatever competition happens, it has to be given all the chances to succeed or expectations have to drop a bit.

its great for the competing clubs finantially thou so youd expect atleast the manager would be all out to win it?

Depends what the situation of the club is at the time. The problem for Rovers now is that survival in the premier division is all that counts. A few grand from winning Setanta would be worthless if you find yourself in the first division (all respect to Longford!).
To win it we would have to play our best players every game. I for one would be calling for Cook's head if Gavin Peers got injured in a Setanta game at this stage.

ha dont worry the first devision is crap i miss being in the premier id trade the cups for it!

That time of year again? :)

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Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

An All Ireland Cup would be great, get rid of the League Cup and include both sides of the border. Just play it as a knock out competition though. Big sponsors would jump at it thus stumping up big money for the winners.

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This makes most sense to me. Playing it as a knockout competition means every game has something major riding on it in that one of the two teams will be heading out. The LC has lost any prestige it had when even we failed to take it seriously this year (:p), it would re-juvenate it, it would fit into the current season withoutb fixture chaos, and a far wider selection of teams would be taking part.

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Originally Posted by A face

I take your points lads but no competition that runs on two side of the calendar and on Tuesday nights was ever going to capture the imagination. I think whatever competition happens, it has to be given all the chances to succeed or expectations have to drop a bit.

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Against Cliftonville this season we played on a Saturday evening with good weather.
We got an attendance of 1200, far less than even half of our average attendance this season. We got three times that on a Tuesday night a few weeks previously at home to Shamrock Rovers for a league game.

I think A face still makes a good point about the competition being too spread out. It's just too hard to sustain interest across such a long period of time. The players in the team that win the competition could be unrecognisable from the ones who started off the campaign. Sure the four Northern representatives qualified for the 2009/10 tournament thanks to their performances in the 2007/08 season!

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

I think A face still makes a good point about the competition being too spread out. It's just too hard to sustain interest across such a long period of time. The players in the team that win the competition could be unrecognisable from the ones who started off the campaign. Sure the four Northern representatives qualified for the 2009/10 tournament thanks to their performances in the 2007/08 season!

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It's a cup competition so it is always going to be somewhat spread out, if it's a good enough competition it should hold interest, as the FAI cup does [even if your own team is knocked out]. Were the League of Ireland winners this season to get to the Champiosn League Final, it'd be 18 months later and they might not even be the current League champions while the competition is still in the group phase.

The Setanta Cup and by extrapolation, an All-Ireland League has far bigger challenges than the calendar.

Best thing at the moment for the Seatana Cup is to add more teams and make it a knock-out competition.

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Originally Posted by tiktok

Against Cliftonville this season we played on a Saturday evening with good weather.
We got an attendance of 1200, far less than even half of our average attendance this season. We got three times that on a Tuesday night a few weeks previously at home to Shamrock Rovers for a league game.

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Ahh .... well .... err ..... ok :D Point well made, but i dunno. I think its just a bit of apathy for the competition after the freezing cold, rainy, Tuesdays against Swifts with no shed etc.

My point really should have included a bit about it starting afresh and to ramp up the interest in it again.

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Originally Posted by tiktok

It's a cup competition so it is always going to be somewhat spread out, if it's a good enough competition it should hold interest, as the FAI cup does [even if your own team is knocked out]. Were the League of Ireland winners this season to get to the Champiosn League Final, it'd be 18 months later and they might not even be the current League champions while the competition is still in the group phase.

The Setanta Cup and by extrapolation, an All-Ireland League has far bigger challenges than the calendar.

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If you dropped the other cup competitions it would add the interest in it.

In general, i just feel that the competition near got a chance to get going because it was always on a Monday or Tuesday night and couldn't really get going.

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Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

An All Ireland Cup would be great, get rid of the League Cup and include both sides of the border. Just play it as a knock out competition though. Big sponsors would jump at it thus stumping up big money for the winners.
If Sky Sports came on board it could be a great boost to local football on the Island.

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best idea by far. Top 5 in each league get a bye in first round. other 12 play each other in open draw format. open draw thereafter. Replace the EA league cup and similar up north. games all decided on the day.

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Originally Posted by A face

If you dropped the other cup competitions it would add the interest in it.

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I agree completely with that, Sam_Heggy's idea is the best path forward.
The thing is, any cross border competition is going to have the problem that the leagues don't run at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Acornvilla

agreed.. the big games might get crowds but not the smaller teams and then waht happens to the teams in the lower tier. Also people ignore the extra traveling that teams and supporters will have to overcome i doubt beople in cork would be delighted about traveling 300 miles or more evey week

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Yes our shortest Away trip is either St. Pats/Shamrock Rovers or Galway hard to tell exactly but there wouldnt be much difference time wise. I do like the Setanta cup but it would be better if it was top 4 in LOI and top 2 in the IL.