One trick / on your bike Trap moanfest

Before I post this I know people will say Trap just does not have the players
to work with so he has to make do. I dis agree. He has better players sitting on their rear ends in England.

My point is he is a stubborn ould lad that has one way of playing and only one way to coach. He does not have a plan B and goes into games without players in the squad that might give him a plan B. Tonight against Bulgaria was one of the saddest performances by an Irish team in years and anyone that says this Bulgarian team were good are wrong. Ireland made them look good. It looked like they just got together this morning.

I believe that the coach sets the mentality of the team and this team started the game trying not to loose.

Maybe we will qualify , but only because of the teams in our group are worse than us , not because we have a good coach. That performance tonight was no better than anything under Stan

My tuppence worth , I stand here to be corrected because I know this is a forum of strong opinions but please if you disagree show me and prove to me that the 24 that we has tonight are Ireland's best and if they are..... well then forget qualification.

totally agree and have been saying it since the earliest days of his reign (in terms of games). I was so hopeful at the start with the young players we have in the premiership and championship that he just hasnt even really considered. Totally disillusioned with Trap to be perfectly honest and i dont care if hes a decorated coach or not, my only concern is the health and future of the irish team.

Ive mentioned Trap's legacy in past posts. He may get us to a world cup but it will be cheapened by the lack of development of our players with real potential, not just the water carriers currently making up the team.

Everything you say in your post is spot on.This guy is past it. All he does is spend his entire time on the sideline talking to himself.Yes he has won lots in his time but he did so with an abundance of talent at his disposal. He is that negative it’s unbelievable and the fact that he played McShane tonight says it all. There is not one creative player on the team all because of his fallout with Andy Reid over some late night music session. Don Givens would do a better job that this clown. We might get through but on false pretences.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Its different to under Stan because this side has a strategy and purpose. They're notoriously difficult to break down, all we've conceded this campaign is from a Kilbane mistake, getting caught cold in the opening minutes and complacency in the dying moments against Georgia. With Stan we were getting picked apart by any team with the stones to do so, even San Marino got one past us.

Its frustrating to watch but we're jumping up the rankings, we're undefeated and we're still in the driving seat to get the play-off spot. It's not spectacular, its not matching our potential but it is satisfactory and thats a hell of a lot better than what we were getting in previous campaigns.

People are starting to rally against his selection decisions like they did with Stan but the difference in the outcome between the two is Trap won't cave and start calling up Carsley / Reid / Miller out of wilderness because the public demanded it. He's stubborn, yes. But look at it another way, he has incredible belief in his system and strategy, he's confident and has been confident from day 1 that we can qualify with his selection and strategy and that confidence and his resistance to buckle under pressure is a fantastic trait in a coach.

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I disagree there, not buckling under pressure and being stubborn to the point of putting qualification in jeopardy are two different things. I believe he does not see beyond his own stubbornness. Its my way or the highway. I'm sure there are good men around him pointing this out(or not) but he has to see it is only by good fortune that we are where we are. My point relating to Stan is that tonight was on par with anything Stan put out except that they defended better. If that's your game plan then lets pick 24 defenders for the panel and we wont loose but we wont win much either. Thanks god the Bulgarians were just as bad as us.

BTW he has called Miller up and I wish he's let him back into the wilderness again :)

That team is going nowhere with that central midfield. It is so limited it's not even funny. Petrov gave them the run around for 90 minutes by himself. Granted Steven Reid is to come back but given his injury record it's difficult to rely on him.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Even before his fallout he didn't start Andy Reid in the first place for the same reason he didn't start Pirlo when he was managing Italy. A cautious, defensive manager was hired. What did you all expect, him to play a playmaker who's horrible defensively, two flying wingers, another winger at left back and paul freakin mcshane in the one team and still be satisfied with their defensive ability?

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I expect him to pick the best 24 he has and make a decision on tactics based on who he has and then be able to change the tactics if need be. That to me is a good coach. Good coaches go into a game with a plan. If it works great but if its going wrong there needs to be a tactical change. He cannot or will not change. Granted who he did put out there tonight did not do themselves justice.

Thing is Trap is not going to change his system at this stage in his life so we're stuck with it. Ideally if we had everyone available you'd hope he would find a way to get as many of our best players on the park together even if it meant changing the system but he's not going to do that even if Stephen Ireland declared himself available tomorrow and Andy Reid was called back into the squad on Monday.

The thing that is ridiculous is the team clearly plays much much better when behind or tied. That needs to be rectified. And it's the managers job. Its not against the law to try to play well to score a second f*****G goal!

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Its different to under Stan because this side has a strategy and purpose. They're notoriously difficult to break down, all we've conceded this campaign is from a Kilbane mistake, getting caught cold in the opening minutes and complacency in the dying moments against Georgia. With Stan we were getting picked apart by any team with the stones to do so, even San Marino got one past us.

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Are we? How many goals have we conceded so far and include the three against Poland? I bet that Austrian second rate club team was happy to get rid of this waster. We are just horrible to watch. We are second in this group simply because of luck and nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Even before his fallout he didn't start Andy Reid in the first place for the same reason he didn't start Pirlo when he was managing Italy. A cautious, defensive manager was hired. What did you all expect, him to play a playmaker who's horrible defensively, two flying wingers, another winger at left back and paul freakin mcshane in the one team and still be satisfied with their defensive ability?

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he couldn't have been any worse defensively than Whelan, and he might've even been able to play a forward pass or 2...fancy that!

i agree with the o.p, i hate to sound like a typical begrudging Irish fan but i think trap is living on borrowed time, its just so lucky that the standard in this group is horribly poor. Bulgaria are one of the worst second seeds i've seen play in a long long time...they were there for the taking several times in that match, and defensive coach or not, the goal is to WIN games and if a team is there for the taking they should be taken...full stop

Funny how we have had four managers on the trot without a 'plan B.' :confused:

In fact you can count that as five if you include JC when the backpass law was changed and/or everyone else started to figure out the big hoof forward.

You said it perfectly in the very first line of your post: 'Trap just does not have the players.' In fact I'd say that Trap does not have the players (and replacements when they are crocked) in three key positions: Left back, right back...and the position currently occupied - whatever that is supposed to be - by the donkey that has managed to get a job with the current champions league holders. In the word of Alexandra, founder of comparethemeerkat.com : 'Simples!'

Agreee totally with this thread. tonight was awful.......god help us on Wednesday.

Another point is has anyone noticed how his English has not improved over his time in charge. I for one find it difficult to understand what he is on about so you can imagine that it must be the same for the players. Listen to Capello and the way he comes across.

I really thought when he took over that it would be the beginning of a new positive era for us.

Ok we are in a good position but we were lucky against Georgia and Cyprus and the tougher games are yet to come.

I counted tonight at one point in the space of about two minute where we gave the ball away six times in a row.

Bulgaria were just as bad but they were the away team.

The positives : Shay Given and Kevin Doyle and maybe Dunne and O'Shea but that's it.

Keane is headless got caught in possession too often and was lazy in getting back from offside positions

We need a management team that knows the players and one that is willing to check the players out week in week out.........not one that relies in the main on videos....how the hell you can assess a player by watching a video is beyond me

For what it'sworth this would be my team if all were available

Given

O'Shea
Dunne
St Ledger
Darren O'Dea or Kevin Foley


Andy Reid
Steven Reid / Ireland
Duff
Mc Geady

Keane
Doyle

As much as we will find it hard to forgive it is imperative we get Ireland back on board

Noone should be allowed say boo about Andy reid's exclusion until they can name three good performances he's had in an Irish shirt.

For those of you moaning about Trap, just think how different we are from a the end of Staunton's reign, and he's done that with the same players.

And in no way at all will qualifying for a World Cup be cheapened because he didn't give Owen fecking Garvan a run out for gods sake. At what stage do you want us to actually stop playing for 4 years away and go and try to qualify by hook or by crook with an squad of players that have no right to easily take first or second place?

Maby Trap can provide good foundations for our next coach who will hopefully have a bit more faith in the players ability at his disposle.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

Maby Trap can provide good foundations for our next coach who will hopefully have a bit more faith in the players ability at his disposle.

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I simply don't understand the mentality or IQ of a lot of people on here. On one hand, we've no full backs, or midfielders are rubbish and our star striker Robbie Keane is overrated and should be stripped of the captaincy. On the other hand we need a manager who trusts these footballing geniuses and unleashes McShane as the new Cafu, confidently leaving our world class defence to mop up any threat thrown at them, just as they used to in previous campaigns?!

Then we listen to people talk about Andy reid having a role to play, when for years he watched games pass him by in midfield, and people listen to Dunphy who today said that he has seen a lot of Kishishev play for Charlton, when in fact he hasn't played there since 2007 and even then Dunphy was never watching championship games.

[QUOTE=Jicked;1132260]

For those of you moaning about Trap, just think how different we are from a the end of Staunton's reign, and he's done that with the same players


To be honest I'm struggling to see how different things are since Staunton - maybe a few wins against Georgia and Cyprus in this group - hardly inspiring given the performances in these games

We were woeful tonight, woeful against Poland

[QUOTE=greendeiseboy;1132268]

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Originally Posted by Jicked

For those of you moaning about Trap, just think how different we are from a the end of Staunton's reign, and he's done that with the same players


To be honest I'm struggling to see how different things are since Staunton - maybe a few wins against Georgia and Cyprus in this group - hardly inspiring given the performances in these games

We were woeful tonight, woeful against Poland

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If you can't see an improvement over Staunton then give up watching football.

"We need a management team that knows the players and one that is willing to check the players out week in week out."

Doesn't matter who or what is managing this team they just don't have it within themselves to retain possession for longer than a couple of seconds, and are way behind other teams technically.

Whoever made the point about us giving the ball away six times in the space of a couple of seconds is spot on. That's what its all about - not giving the ball away like snuff at a wake.

Bulgaria kept possession, grew in confidence in our half, kept probing and finally got the goal they deserved. Does anyone on this board believe if Kilbane had have hit that cross out for a corner that we would not have been defending with our lives for the remaining 20 minutes? Of course we would.

It's all down to our style of play. Score a goal and defend in numbers and hope for the best. It's been that way since Roy Keane was captain in Israel and long before that.

Have to agree about specific comments about McShane and Whelan. Both players are pure unadulterated rubbish. I believe Andrews is worth keeping but if he's not going to put in Reid then let him at least go for Garvan. Whelan was anonymous and allowed the white shirts to pour through the middle all night long.

Bottom line is we're going nowhere with one of the weakes midfields in the world and with players in general who are unable to hold possession.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

blah blah blah.

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time to wake up a bit there, head. We havent beaten anyone of note yet. We have failed our first real test in this group, Bulgaria at home.

If you think Robbie Keane played well out there today then i think you are the one who needs to give up watching football. Seriously. Im a fan of Keane but he was af*ckingnonymous today bar one or two trips out to the left wing.

If youre hapy to qualify for the world cup an then get lashed out of it by any team we face then good luck to you. Im not.

There are tough questions for Trap to answer and they are not the ones about Reid or Ireland. Theyre both no-brainers to me. Trap needs to be quizzed on his inclusions as opposed to his omissions.

Why is Caleb Folan in the squad?
Why does Liam Miller get called up?
Why does McShane even get near the squad, never mind next choice full back?
What did Stokes do to be next in line after Duff's injury? What was his logic behind that choice?
Why does he never make a substitution in order to try and change the game around, replace tired players etc.

Those are just for starters. Im on my way out now to get hammered.

Seriously Jicked, if you are happy with how things are going and the job Trapatoni is doing, then good luck to you. :rolleyes:

I have to say I like Trappatoni as our manager. That doesn't mean I agree with all his choices. I presume Whelan is in the team to prevent / destroy. Yet Petrov ran theshow tonight and how he didn't get man of math is beyond me...we runn the risk of being as biased as Northern Ireland (that commentary on the Polish match was embarrassing). My understanding is reid is out becaushe doesn't track back etc. Yet where was whelan when Petrov crossed for the goal?At least andrews was trying to close down the player that played the initial pass and he does offer something.

On top of that I think s hunt is way overrated and completely out of his depth.
Mcgeady is also extremely frustrating, but could be class