Shame on Cork and Drogheda

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02/02/2009, 1:09 PM
cheech

Shame on Cork and Drogheda

How these two clubs can be allowed to even prepare for a season in the Premier Division here is an absolute farce in my opinion.

A ten point deduction is not a big enough deterrent for going into examinership. You sign a fleet of top players, rack up enough points to be safe and then pull the plug.

One of the main things that comes out of this mess is that a lot of businesses are now very wary to do business with eircom League clubs. More than one business has faced financial ruin as they only get a fraction of the money owed to them.

We all get tarred with the one brush. Examinership should not be an option to clubs unless they're prepared to be demoted.

This isn't a rant against fans of either club who I have nothing but admiration for in securing the futures of their clubs.

The fact that both these clubs will probably take their places in the Premier again next year as if nothing has happened. This is a major problem.

We as a league and organisation are a mess. That is why our top clubs have average gates of a couple of thousand.

A lot of fans here are always on their high horse about why Irish people support English teams. Well my English/Scottish club supporting friends and colleagues look on our league as a joke and it is easy to see why.
02/02/2009, 1:16 PM
Mr A

Doesn't the licensing board have the power to do whatever they feel appropriate as a punishment for examinership though?...perhaps this issue is not yet cut and dried.

Yes there has been 10 point deductions already, but if you relegate clubs mid season you take a lot away from the league and it scares off potential investors in the clubs. So maybe they went with the rap on the knuckles at the time and will break out the big stick before next year. I don't think either club could complain if they did so.

I seriously, seriously doubt it will happen, but it would send out a strong message that reckless trading has real consequences.
02/02/2009, 1:24 PM
Rovers Maniac

Sure in the uk teams entering administration face only a points deduction !? Although probably best to put that in place from the start of the follwoing season.
02/02/2009, 1:56 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

A ten point deduction is not a big enough deterrent for going into examinership. You sign a fleet of top players, rack up enough points to be safe and then pull the plug.
.

Surely you should be saying shame on the disciplinary committee who made the decision?

The clubs didnt control it.
I agree its not a strong enough punishment though. Imo should be automatic relegation

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

Doesn't the licensing board have the power to do whatever they feel appropriate as a punishment for examinership though?...perhaps this issue is not yet cut and dried.

They did have that power, when they went to make the decision originally. They decided on 10 point deduction.

There will be(can be?) no further punishment for the same offense.

what I thought would happen would there would be further punishments for different rules e.g. the wage cap. But if they were to do that theyd have to punish almost every club Id imagine so I cant see that happening.
02/02/2009, 3:40 PM
A face

We haven't have snow in a while, makes a nice change i have to say.
02/02/2009, 4:14 PM
Mr A

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

They did have that power, when they went to make the decision originally. They decided on 10 point deduction.

There will be(can be?) no further punishment for the same offense.

what I thought would happen would there would be further punishments for different rules e.g. the wage cap. But if they were to do that theyd have to punish almost every club Id imagine so I cant see that happening.

Absolutely fair points. They can either use the 65% rule or some other 'catch all' type rule to take things further. They can always say they punished you for entering examinership, and punish you again for exiting while fecking over creditors and gaining an advantage over other clubs by being able to walk away from debt.

But like I said above, it won't happen. The FAI seem to be taking the approach of prevention for the future rather than punishment for the past.
02/02/2009, 4:16 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

The FAI seem to be taking the approach of prevention for the future rather than punishment for the past.

I'd be happy with that if they manage it.
02/02/2009, 4:23 PM
Mr A

Agreed, it would still represent serious progress if we could go a season without a club going into meltdown.
02/02/2009, 6:50 PM
MariborKev

Quote:

Originally Posted by CelticTiger

Are you serious? Would you honestly like to see Cork and Drogs go down this year?

What a blow that would be to the league.

Prevention is better than Cure,thats what they say anyway,so the better thing to do would be to safeguard the future instead of punishing the clubs now.

We have no guarantee that this "prevention" method is any improvement. This is the first time that we are aware of the FAI rejecting budgets, but that doesn't say that clubs wouldn't end up in the same position never year.

Licensing is a sham and has been since the first year. It will continue to be so until a club(whether it be mine or another) is properly punished for flagrant breaches.
02/02/2009, 7:10 PM
Celdrog

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

More than one business has faced financial ruin as they only get a fraction of the money owed to them.

Please name 2
02/02/2009, 7:45 PM
brianw82

This argument has been done to death in numerous other threads. Why do we need to go over it again?
02/02/2009, 8:02 PM
A face

Prolonged falls of snow likely in parts of Leinster forecasted for tomorrow. We are really in for a cold snap for a few days.
02/02/2009, 8:31 PM
Longfordian

But what about the children?..
02/02/2009, 11:20 PM
CSFShels

Quote:

Originally Posted by CelticTiger

Are you serious? Would you honestly like to see Cork and Drogs go down this year?

What a blow that would be to the league.

Prevention is better than Cure,thats what they say anyway,so the better thing to do would be to safeguard the future instead of punishing the clubs now.

Drogs going down would not be a blow to the league. If they do stay up they'll be a nothing team anyway. And Cork being put down would be a benefit to the league, to send a loud message instead of this 'well we'll do it next time' malarchy.
03/02/2009, 9:37 AM
thischarmingman

Quote:

Originally Posted by CelticTiger

Are you serious? Would you honestly like to see Cork and Drogs go down this year?

What a blow that would be to the league.

Prevention is better than Cure,thats what they say anyway,so the better thing to do would be to safeguard the future instead of punishing the clubs now.

A blow to the league? I think you'll find the league will be quite capable of surviving without Drogs or Cork in the top flight. Cork would certainly not be down for long anyhow. People said it would be a blow to the league if institutions like Dundalk, Shamrock Rovers or Shelbourne went down in recent year but it's proven to be utter nonsense. I don't like to see any club go down, especially two who have been so successful in recent history but it is important to punish now to safeguard the future, and make it clear that the kind of spending that's gone on in previous seasons is simply not an option anymore.
03/02/2009, 9:56 AM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longfordian

But what about the children?..

Yeah, wont someone think of the children, they must be frozen :p
03/02/2009, 10:13 AM
tiktok

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

Examinership should not be an option to clubs unless they're prepared to be demoted.

CCFC were prepared to be demoted [I expected we would be]. It's not the fault of either club that they followed the legal path available to them through the High Court and that the punishment we received from the league was a 10 point deduction.

Why should CCFC and DUFC be ashamed, do you think we should have argued for a tougher punishment to be laid against us? Take a deep breath and direct your anger properly.

At least CCFC ousted the shower that got us into the mess. As for relationship with businesses, they'll have to be rebuilt. It's a shame that creditors didn't get their full amount owed back from CFC and DUFC, but the creditors that have been affected by the 70 other companies whoo are going through examinership right now in this country are affected too, that's not an issue exclusive to the LoI.
03/02/2009, 10:18 AM
sadloserkid

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

We haven't have snow in a while, makes a nice change i have to say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

Prolonged falls of snow likely in parts of Leinster forecasted for tomorrow. We are really in for a cold snap for a few days.

Not sure how big a problem the snow is when your head is already buried in the sand! :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSFShels

Drogs going down would not be a blow to the league. If they do stay up they'll be a nothing team anyway. And Cork being put down would be a benefit to the league, to send a loud message instead of this 'well we'll do it next time' malarchy.

100% correct. Clubs need to stop signing players that they can't afford. The whole league is nothing but a microcosm of the celtic tiger, an illusion of international progress built almost entirely on money that doesn't exist.
03/02/2009, 10:42 AM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by sadloserkid

Not sure how big a problem the snow is when your head is already buried in the sand!

No no no, its in the snow y'see !!! :D

Seriously though, i hear whats being said. I'm still back at the stage where i feel lucky to have a club in the Munster Senior League. Aside from the complaints here i think most fans are still happy that Arkaga weren't able to inflict any more / fatal damage to the club.

And everything after that, as Tiktok said, what can we do. We're not gonna actively go looking for punishment, its gonna be hard enough as it is to be honest.

Do you want all City fans to go out and start whipping ourselves with chains and poking our eyes out with a rusty nail, go fasting and walk across a bed of hot coals? Cos we'll do it SLK, we'll do it ..... if it means staying in top flight football for 2009 then we'll do it .... break out the fire lighters there now, i'm taking off my shoes and socks as we speak !! ;):p
03/02/2009, 10:44 AM
sadloserkid

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

Do you want all City fans to go out and start whipping ourselves with chains and poking our eyes out with a rusty nail, go fasting and walk across a bed of hot coals?

Sort of! :o

Just to qualify I think the notion of blaming clubs for the punishment handed out to them is nonsense.

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