IBEC ESB and Energy Costs

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0130/pay.html


IBEC have been showed up to be bluffers on this issue. The ESB like any profit making organisation has given the increases just like any other profit making firms in IBEC. IBEC are not involved in a major back tracking. In relation to the pay talks all the media have concentrated on the unions but it is IBEC whose members have us in the situation we are in and they are the ones trying to call the shots and hold the country to ransom and the journalists are letting them away with it.

http://www.rte.ie/news/onetoone/

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...t-1632459.html

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High energy costs are a key issue under discussion today at the social partnership talks in Government Buildings.

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Amazing how the Government can debate such a thing, given they raised prices themselves because no-one would come into the market to compete at the rate when only the ESB were around. Sums up my derision of "pro competition" arguments in general really. An awful lot of privatisation seems to have been about taking things away from Governments to make a select few individuals very rich. Course, no-one will address this real issue.

You have hit the nail on the head there stu. Well said.

Are posts like that allowed in this forum? :p

My dad works in the ESB; drives him mad the amount of bull**** that's spouted on this topic.

Just imagine how mad he'd be if he worked in the football business

I kind of work in the football business, and am completely mad. :)

Do we actually have any competition in electricity generation or supply?

I presume the ESB will maintain the network as can't really have multiple network suppliers. I know there are other companies that generate electricity in Ireland & a few business targetted retailers.

72k average ESB salary sounds a lot but not much compared to 500k+ salary for CEO. If there was alternative to the ESB the company can pay its staff all it likes but when no real choice all wage increases are going to feed into customers bills.

ESB CEO doing great job

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PROBLEMS with the cooling tower at an ESB power plant in Kerry have meant that 14 workers have been turning up for work every day for the last five months, but have nothing to do.

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Originally Posted by pete

Do we actually have any competition in electricity generation or supply?

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People getting their power through Bord Gas get a 10% discount so at least there is a small piece of competition

Airtricity have a "10% off ESB prices" offer at the moment too. I emailed to ask if there's a minimum term; they didn't reply. So they can bite me.

adam

ESB has 40 per cent of the total market. Other companies are not really interested in the domestic market and they want to make their money purely from the commercial market. I do not think they are interested in supplying electricity to someone in West Kerry or North Donegal.

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Originally Posted by Battery Rover

People getting their power through Bord Gas get a 10% discount so at least there is a small piece of competition

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I believe one market they have targeted is apartment complexes (I suppose they qualify as business) so we will probably move to them.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I do not think they are interested in supplying electricity to someone in West Kerry or North Donegal.

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Location has no bearing, their competitors have no infrastructural requirement. They're just resellers. Unless I'm missing something, which happens quite often.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

ESB has 40 per cent of the total market. Other companies are not really interested in the domestic market and they want to make their money purely from the commercial market. I do not think they are interested in supplying electricity to someone in West Kerry or North Donegal.

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Spot on. There are six electricity suppliers in Ireland. Although this -

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

Location has no bearing, their competitors have no infrastructural requirement. They're just resellers. Unless I'm missing something, which happens quite often.

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- is a slight correction on your post. It's not location, it's quantity that the "competitors" are interested in, which is why the other five suppliers are almost exclusively in the corporate market. The ESB was also forced to sell electricity at an artificially low price to competitors, who could then re-sell it at a price which undercut the ESB, all in the name of competition. Absolutely ridiculous.

Just put the location in to bring home a point thats all. Its like private bus companies only wanting to run the Dublin City Centre to Swords route etc.

Technically, location is less important with electricity as isolation doesn't really increase costs much; the bus analogy isn't exactly accurate as there's extra costs in sending a bus out to Enniskerry at 1pm and then finding no-one wants to use it, whereas the electricity network is already set up.

I believe we all pay something called "public service levy" or similar to subsidise the provision of electricity to hermits living half way up mountains. Something like that anyway.

I could only laugh when I heard the ESB claim they are not allowed to reduce their prices. AFAIK the ESB make their price change submissions to the Regulator & he tells them how much of a change they are allowed. If the ESB really cared about reducing prices they would just submit a request to the Regulator & when he refuses they could just point the finger at him.

Now some level of competition from Bord Gais & Airtricity it really doesn't matter what the ESB do with their wages.

Airtricity look interesting but as said above nothing mentioned about the 10% reduction term. That said they have a good pricing section much better than the other suppliers. Once I make a decision I will definitely move from the ESB - their recent "estimated" bills have been huge. It is supposed to be easy to switch & no locked in contracts but with estimated readings seems like a bit of hassling changing too often.

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Originally Posted by pete

If the ESB really cared about reducing prices they would just submit a request to the Regulator & when he refuses they could just point the finger at him.

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Yeah pete, semi-state bodies do that all the time. Politics be damned, job suicide rocks.

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Originally Posted by pete

I could only laugh when I heard the ESB claim they are not allowed to reduce their prices. AFAIK the ESB make their price change submissions to the Regulator & he tells them how much of a change they are allowed. If the ESB really cared about reducing prices they would just submit a request to the Regulator & when he refuses they could just point the finger at him.

Now some level of competition from Bord Gais & Airtricity it really doesn't matter what the ESB do with their wages.

Airtricity look interesting but as said above nothing mentioned about the 10% reduction term. That said they have a good pricing section much better than the other suppliers. Once I make a decision I will definitely move from the ESB - their recent "estimated" bills have been huge. It is supposed to be easy to switch & no locked in contracts but with estimated readings seems like a bit of hassling changing too often.

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A few points:

If the ESB are allowed by regulator to reduce prices the competitors will still have enough margin to undercut them due to the price structure the ESB must sell energy to the new entrants.

We have artificial market competition so the incumbent generator and provider, the ESB are at a distinct competitive disadvantage with the likes of Bord Gais and Airtricity.

As for your meter reading, no matter who you use ESB Networks will still be reading it as neither BG or Airtricity have anyone on the ground so to speak.

Oh for the record I've moved to Bord Gais