Trapattoni - Questionable?

I'm just wondering am I the only one who thinks Trapattoni isn't what he's cracked up to be? His decisions so far have been very strange and mind boggling at times. His football is negative and team/squad selections more than questionable. Andy Reid/Joey O'Brien aside, the fact that Darron Gibson is starting is an absolute joke. Glenn Whelan is not international standard. Andy Keogh is poor and again, not good enough to be anywhere near the team. Far better players are being left out of not only the team, but the squad.

Yes we have 7 from 9 points but all against C/D class international sides. I'd love to be enthusiastic about the guy but I've been around the game long enough to see through the cracks. He's no Jack Charlton I'm afraid. I think our current group position is false and going on current team selections and performances, I fully expect us to be exposed next season by Bulgaria and Italy. I cannot see this side getting results there, or in Cyprus for that matter.

So far I don't rate the guy and I fear that the stuff that the Redbull Salzburg fans were saying about him are beginning to ring through. Anyone else worried about some of the stuff that's going on?

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Anyone else worried about some of the stuff that's going on?

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No not me anyways.

Definitely some questionable selections, but if you're worried about him being negative, then you should have been worried from the start.

He plays that Italian defensive system, and that was never going to change when he took over our team.

I like the fact that he picks who he considers to be our best players, rather than players who are playing for their clubs (even if I disagree with some of these players).

One of his best moves so far has been to use O'Shea as a centre-half alongside Dunne. This partnership is playing wonderfully, and is a huge part of our success to date (had a bad night against Poland though).

Decisions to play guys like Folan also impress me. A lot of people on here would have told you he was a **** nobody player for Hull, but he was one of our classier players on Wednesday, no doubt about it. He showed that he's more than just a big man. He looked very intelligent and had good passing and a great first touch.

I wouldn't say I'm 100% behind all of his decisions, but at least there is a method to his selections, and we're getting some consistency as far as selection and strategy.

Miles ahead of Staunton's "lottery" selection policy where we had the likes of Alan "Usain Bolt" O'Brien and Joey "Kiss me I'm Irish" Lapira.

Not convinced he's picking the right players, but all top managers seem to make selections that the majority disagree with- their ability to see what we cannot is what makes them the best.

I understand the concerns but it is a useless debate IMO. They are not firing him, he is not quitting, and his body of work suggests he get the benefit of the campaign to be judged on. Even if they switched managers at this point, who would they hire?
Let me guess, Stephen Ireland could manage the team while scoring goals and getting his nails done at the same time better than anyone who ever saw a pitch.
I heard Stephen Ireland doesnt sleep, he just waits......

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

I understand the concerns but it is a useless debate IMO. They are not firing him, he is not quitting, and his body of work suggests he get the benefit of the campaign to be judged on. Even if they switched managers at this point, who would they hire?
Let me guess, Stephen Ireland could manage the team while scoring goals and getting his nails done at the same time better than anyone who ever saw a pitch.
I heard Stephen Ireland doesnt sleep, he just waits......

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Stephen Ireland is not an issue as he exited the scene before Trapattoni and has never played for him.

My issue with Trapattoni is that he's selecting players who are clearly sub standard for this level. We're just about getting away with it now (actually we're not as Poland destroyed the midfield, and Poland are not a great side) but against the better sides we're going to be exposed. Badly. His treatment of Andy Reid is Houllier-esque - piggish and unnecessary. The over-looking of Lee Carsley is also baffling. How Andy Keogh is in the squad ahead of Daryl Murphy or Owen Garvan doesn't make sense either. Keith Andrews has just made the squad, yet Darron Gibson, a reserve with zilch experience not only makes squads, but starts....and is so far out of his dept it isn't funny. I get the impression that Trapattoni doesn't watch games in the UK and has basically picked his selections from what he's seen himself in Senior and B internationals. I for one have pegged back my expectations anyway after the goings on of the last few months

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Stephen Ireland is not an issue as he exited the scene before Trapattoni and has never played for him.

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You either have never read anything on this website, or you need to adjust your sarcasm meter.

Every manager is questionable, people question Fergie's team selection constantly, even though he's been there and done that
One bad result does not make Trapattoni a bad manager, it's how he reacts to it that will make him a good or bad manager

I'm just going to throw this out there- I think Keogh is a talented player, and may be a forward option for us somewhere down the line, but the guy is NOT A WINGER, not in a million years.

The same way that McShane may be an okay centre-half, but he should never be a fullback.

Andy Reid isn't a winger, but if the only way we can accomodate him is on the outside, I say, why not?

He's shown that he can do a job for us there before, give him a go.

Beginning to doubt he'll even get an appearance in this campaign though.

Lads
I know some are worried and I can see why , but Trap is an A1 class manager just keep behind him and everything will be fine in the end and we can all look forward to a trip to SA on the back of him .

We have to back him ...........

I'm not calling for his head.

Some of his decisions have been good, some have been bad.

We're hardly going to praise Trap for common sense decisions like Duff, Keane, Dunne, and Given in the starting lineup.

The discussion and debate will always be related to those players who are not necessarily guaranteed a spot for various reasons.

Here is a brief look at some of Trap's questionable inclusions:

O'Shea has been much maligned over the years, and it is only really this campaign that I have noticed the criticism almost disappear completely. He doesn't always play for United, but placing O'Shea in the centre of defence has been one of Trap's best moves. Hardly mentioned in the media or this forum.

Kilbane has always had his doubters, and I have been one of them at times. I love the man's character, but if I'm being 100% honest, he still scares me ****less at times. Still, with no clearly better option, nobody has been critical of him playing at left full.

McShane is a centre-half being played at fullback for both club and country. At least he's getting games at Hull, but you really never know what you're going to get from him. There's no questioning his guts or commitment, but his questionable decision making, lack of pace, and the fact that he's playing out of position all make him hard to 100% justify when we have the likes of Joey O'Brien and Foley to choose from.

Whelan- Above average performances against crap opposition and he's now a guaranteed starter. Even if he is as good as Trap thinks, it can't be good for his match sharpness and fitness to be riding the pine with Stoke. Questions are rightly raised- not as good a tackler as Carsley, not as creative as Andy Reid...is he the better overall player, or is it just a matter of being highly effective in Trap's system?

Gibson- There's definitely potential here, but he's simply not ready for this level yet. Perhaps if he was getting regular football he could rapidly be capable of this, but going from reserve team football against Hull reserves to playing Italy is simply too big a gap so I hope he gets a loan move or breaks through at United (GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!).

Keogh- never a winger in a million years. At this stage he should be 4th or lower in the striker pecking order.

Folan- Even though he played well, his selection for the friendly was questionable given that he isn't getting much playing time with Hull. This was a gamble worth taking, and he really looks like he could be a solid option for us in this campaign. He looks a real team player, and a very intelligent footballer overall. It's only one game, but I was really impressed.

Anyway, these are some of Trap's questionable decisions.

Kilbane and O'Shea are not being questioned now, because we don't have much in the line of alternatives, and in fairness to them, they have done well apart from this Poland game.

The centre of midfield is barely functional at best, and there isn't an obvious solution. I love Andy Reid, but I don't think he can play alongside Whelan without us getting ripped apart.

In fact, with the midfielders we have, I'm not sure Reid could play as a central midfielder in a 4-4-2.

I'm hoping Trap eventually decides to use Reid on the wings instead or on a rotation basis with McGeady, and I'm hoping that Andrews is given the start alongside Whelan when our campaign resumes in the new year.

My formation for our next game:

--------------Given------------

Finnan-----Dunne---O'Shea---Kilbane (when will Finnan be back anyway?)

McGeady---Whelan---Andrews---Duff

-------Keane--Doyle---------

Would be fine with Andy Reid coming in for McGeady, or Folan coming in for Doyle.

That lineup looks pretty strong, with my only serious worry being Kilbane at left full.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

I'm just wondering am I the only one who thinks Trapattoni isn't what he's cracked up to be? His decisions so far have been very strange and mind boggling at times. His football is negative and team/squad selections more than questionable. Andy Reid/Joey O'Brien aside, the fact that Darron Gibson is starting is an absolute joke. Glenn Whelan is not international standard. Andy Keogh is poor and again, not good enough to be anywhere near the team. Far better players are being left out of not only the team, but the squad.


So far I don't rate the guy and I fear that the stuff that the Redbull Salzburg fans were saying about him are beginning to ring through. Anyone else worried about some of the stuff that's going on?

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ha ha well i was one of about 3 - yeah there was 3 of us - from the start who didnt want him - but i said i might as well wait in the long grass - when we wont qualify (from a dead easy group as well!)

I mean you can look at a cV or you can look at what you are seeing from you one eyes - last three jobs he had were a joke and it told a lot that salzburg fans were delighted to be shot of him, his Italian team was regularly pelted and, in Munich he was a source of ridicule -

enjoy the beautiful football under Mr Trap

(did you enjoy Leo Beenhakker's Poland - why didnt the FAI go after him - he is a master of the game)

But its only a friendly - so see ya later!:)

Has anyone actually thought how many times we had great results in friendly matches only to fail to perform in the qualifiers. I can remember beating Sweden and Denmark 3 and 4 nil respectively under Staunton. By the same degree, you can't read anything into perfoming poorly in friendlies, providing we continue to pick up the points in the qualifiers.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

We're just about getting away with it now (actually we're not as Poland destroyed the midfield, and Poland are not a great side) but against the better sides we're going to be exposed.

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I think people are going a bit ott. Poland certainly didn't destroy midfield. It was a pretty even contest in midfield I thought. Whelan sat back in the first half and I thought Gibson started very well but faded. Gibson then sat back in the 2nd half and Whelan was actually heavily involved. There was some good play by us. I'm not saying we played well. Jesus every time out defence had the ball there was no midfielder offering themselves. Certainly not as bad in midfield as we were against Cyprus though when the central midfielders didn't seem to want much of the ball at all.

I actually think, if Whelan put in that performance beside S.Reid he'd be getting good reviews. We just need a playmaker. Every team needs a playmaker to be succesful imo. Yet A.Reid and Garvan were sitting at home. I watch Celtic every week. The difference in Scott Brown when he's playing beside Crosas or Donati compared to Hartley or Robson is huge. He's probably playing the same way but a playmaker compliments his game so much better.

Lads that was the worst Irish Team in Living Memory -YOU CAN'T MAKE SILK PURSES OUT OF SOWS EARS.

We need an Alchemist not a world class manager.

I have to agree with Irishfan86 about Andy Keogh. I think he has a future with Ireland but as a striker. His workrate is phenomenal, he just needs to improve his finishing. Trap is not doing him any favours playing him on the wing.

Stephen Reids injury is a massive blow to our hopes of qualification. Had we had him for the rest of this season I would expect us to get 2nd place at the very least. Traps biggest dilemma is who to play with Whelan in midfield. Just wondering would he consider John O’Shea there if Finnan is back and playing McShane in the centre with Dunne. Its a decision that will define his tenure as manager of the Republic of Ireland.

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Originally Posted by Reality Bites

Lads that was the worst Irish Team in Living Memory -YOU CAN'T MAKE SILK PURSES OUT OF SOWS EARS.

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Just to field a team on paper from what was available...

---------------- Given ----------------
Foley ---- O'Shea --- Dunne --- Kilbane
---------------- Carsley --------------
-------- A.Reid --------- Garvan ------
Duff ----------------------------- Hunt
----------------- Doyle ---------------

On paper it's a mile away from the worst Irish team in recent years. With Finnan, S.Reid, McGeady and Keane to come back there's no doubt we should be better than Bulgaria.

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Originally Posted by Reality Bites

Lads that was the worst Irish Team in Living Memory -YOU CAN'T MAKE SILK PURSES OUT OF SOWS EARS.

We need an Alchemist not a world class manager.

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worse than losing 5-2 against Cyprus away in a qualifier?
worse than drawing 1-1 against Cyprus at home in a qualifier?
worse than needing an injury time winner against San Marino away in a qualifier?
worse than drawing 0-0 with Liechtenstein away in a qualifier?
etc, etc, etc

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

worse than losing 5-2 against Cyprus in a qualifier?
worse than drawing 1-1 against Cyprus at home?
worse than needing an injury time winner against San Marino?
worse than drawing 0-0 with Liechtenstein?
etc, etc, etc

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Yes - Wednesdays team was worst than players used in those games!

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Originally Posted by Reality Bites

Yes - Wednesdays team was worst than players used in those games!

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Do you think people would be complaining if that team on Wednesday was the best we had available? Most of the players on Wednesday did the best they could. The fact is we could have fielded a better team.

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Originally Posted by irishfan86

I'm just going to throw this out there- I think Keogh is a talented player, and may be a forward option for us somewhere down the line, but the guy is NOT A WINGER, not in a million years.

The same way that McShane may be an okay centre-half, but he should never be a fullback.

Andy Reid isn't a winger, but if the only way we can accomodate him is on the outside, I say, why not?

He's shown that he can do a job for us there before, give him a go.

Beginning to doubt he'll even get an appearance in this campaign though.

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would agree with everything you say irishfan esp the keogh comments

when i was leaving the stadium on wed nite - i was saying to the mates - who am i to question trap after all he has done in football but some of his decisions are quite simply mind boggling. And tbh om sure an awful lot of ye had the same thoughts after it as well.

no matter how succesful the guy is , i cannot comprehend for the life of me why he is playing reserves in the team... it just does not make any sense

that is not a knock at gibson/whelan but they are reserve players..its just a fact , and hence should not be in an international side until they are playing first team footie

i would be very interetsted to know what advice brady is giving trap and the 2 lads.

Also does any1 know how many games trap has been to see the irish lads play in the prem?
i know tardelli and brady go, but how many has the trap been to?