Potentially eligible players thread

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Apples and oranges.

Scott Hogan, Will Keane, Jamie O'Hara, Kyle Naughton, Curtis Davies, Mark Noble and Patrick Bamford etc, etc are not committed to playing for Ireland. Until they are, they are not part of the discussion. How can you blame Trapattoni or O'Neill for not selecting players who don't want to play for us?

Cyrus Christie, Harry Arter, Callum O'Dowda and David McGoldrick are all eligible players brought into the fold under O'Neill and people still complain.

This is because they realised they weren't good enough to play for England and declared for Ireland.

It's a two way street. The management have to be proactive about these things but there has to be a pull, and a bit of pragmatism, from the players as well.

And excuse me for not being enamored with the idea of players who aren't good enough to be in the reckoning for England togging out for us.

I just mentioned Christie and McGoldrick. I could name four or five Irish born players who are arguably better than them.

We are not talking about Steven Gerrard, Paul Scholes, Wayne Rooney and Aaron Lennon type players here. We are talking about players who aren't remotely good enough to get near the national team of a country that got outplayed by Iceland a few months ago.

I think we should give ourselves a bit of credit.

It's funny you mention Kilbane. He's firmly against the idea of selecting players like Hogan and Bamford!

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O'Hara, Naughton, Davies, Noble, fair enough - I think we all know they have no interest or interest only as a last resort but the story with the others is different:

Will Keane recently expressed interest in an interview and I think that's what started this present round of speculation, along with his transfer to Hull. And remember, his brother did play underage for us. As regards how we should approach it, obviously there's no reason to call him up on the basis of 20 minutes Premier League action (and an underwhelming career to date). But we should definitely approach him and let him know that if he has a good season, he could become an option for us (and yes, as you said, we have a number of players who been involved with us for longer-unfortunately they're all Championship midfielders and defenders-we really need strikers fast).

Scott Hogan was called up to the U-21 team towards the tail-end of his break-out season at Rochdale but he was needed by his club (must've been a friendly). Shortly after, he moved to Brentford and almost immediately got injured. Since returning he's been on a scoring rampage. His attitude in May towards playing for Ireland can be summed up as "yes, I qualify, but I haven't thought too much about it as I'm focused on establishing myself at Brentford" which is understandable for somebody who had just come back from a career-threatening injury. A few months down the road from that, it's surely worth our while for the management team to have a word and find out where he stands. And again - we need strikers.

Patrick Bamford's interest is, admittedly, less tangible than even Keane's and Hogan's somewhat limited expressions of interest as he has been more openly focused on an England career. But he has said that his Irish family links are strong enough that he regularly has family members trying to persuade him to change his affinity. And even when he talked about turning them down, he also left the door slightly ajar by saying "I feel English, or I think so anyway"

I think it's a little unfair to say that Christie, Arter, O'Dowda and McGoldrick only chose us because they weren't good enough to play for England. Arter is a Premier League player, who played under-age for us and was only called into the squad at the tail-end of a successful premier League season. Christie and O'Dowda are both young enough and good enough that they can justifiably aspire to becoming established Premier League stars by their mid-20s (like Lallana, Lambert, Vardy, Drinkwater) - and O'Dowda's now playing at the same level as a certain other 21-year-old that we lost to England and whose name shall not be mentioned for fear of a ban for me. McGoldrick, admittedly, is not likely to become a top Premier League goalscorer at this point of his career, but in interviews has said he had an interest in playing for the country of his adoptive parents but thought that he didn't qualify because there was no blood connection and when his biological mother told him that one of her parents was Irish, he jumped at the chance to get his passport

samhaydenjr passes both my gut and common sense tests

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Originally Posted by samhaydenjr

O'Hara, Naughton, Davies, Noble, fair enough - I think we all know they have no interest or interest only as a last resort but the story with the others is different:

Will Keane recently expressed interest in an interview and I think that's what started this present round of speculation, along with his transfer to Hull. And remember, his brother did play underage for us. As regards how we should approach it, obviously there's no reason to call him up on the basis of 20 minutes Premier League action (and an underwhelming career to date). But we should definitely approach him and let him know that if he has a good season, he could become an option for us (and yes, as you said, we have a number of players who been involved with us for longer-unfortunately they're all Championship midfielders and defenders-we really need strikers fast).

Scott Hogan was called up to the U-21 team towards the tail-end of his break-out season at Rochdale but he was needed by his club (must've been a friendly). Shortly after, he moved to Brentford and almost immediately got injured. Since returning he's been on a scoring rampage. His attitude in May towards playing for Ireland can be summed up as "yes, I qualify, but I haven't thought too much about it as I'm focused on establishing myself at Brentford" which is understandable for somebody who had just come back from a career-threatening injury. A few months down the road from that, it's surely worth our while for the management team to have a word and find out where he stands. And again - we need strikers.

Patrick Bamford's interest is, admittedly, less tangible than even Keane's and Hogan's somewhat limited expressions of interest as he has been more openly focused on an England career. But he has said that his Irish family links are strong enough that he regularly has family members trying to persuade him to change his affinity. And even when he talked about turning them down, he also left the door slightly ajar by saying "I feel English, or I think so anyway"

I think it's a little unfair to say that Christie, Arter, O'Dowda and McGoldrick only chose us because they weren't good enough to play for England. Arter is a Premier League player, who played under-age for us and was only called into the squad at the tail-end of a successful premier League season. Christie and O'Dowda are both young enough and good enough that they can justifiably aspire to becoming established Premier League stars by their mid-20s (like Lallana, Lambert, Vardy, Drinkwater) - and O'Dowda's now playing at the same level as a certain other 21-year-old that we lost to England and whose name shall not be mentioned for fear of a ban for me. McGoldrick, admittedly, is not likely to become a top Premier League goalscorer at this point of his career, but in interviews has said he had an interest in playing for the country of his adoptive parents but thought that he didn't qualify because there was no blood connection and when his biological mother told him that one of her parents was Irish, he jumped at the chance to get his passport

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Never heard that about McGoldrick before, very interesting to read.

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Originally Posted by gastric

Never heard that about McGoldrick before, very interesting to read.

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Yeah, it's actually quite a moving story as he had researched his background hoping to find a link (as he thought his adopted status meant he wouldn't qualify) and learned about his blood connection to Ireland when he got in contact with his birth mother, who sadly passed away shortly after - I was working from memory but I found the original article I read a couple of years ago here: http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...reland-call-up. He also notes that once he found out he was eligible he went out and got his Irish passport without even speaking to the FAI in the hope that he would be picked and I believe there was a TV interview posted here on Foot.ie where he said that even as a kid when he went to football games he'd always try to get the autographs of Irish players. So he definitely passes my gut test

To be honest, I am not bothered about the "gut test". Taking the Premiership as an example, most English footballers even if born in Birmingham or Sheffield would like to play for Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea or Man City. If they don't make it there, they make their way down to the Evertons, Sunderlands or West Hams of this world and if that doesn't work out they move down to the Sheffield Wednesdays, Prestons, Derbys and so on. Does that make a Derby supporter any less fond of the player because he'd like to be playing for a bigger team and only chose Derby because the others wouldn't have him. I think not. Should international football be any different ? To me it makes no difference the motive of a player who dons the green jersey provided he gives 100% on the field. Perhaps he grew up dreaming of walking out on Wembley to sing "God Save the Queen" and then found his country didn't want him. He wants to play international football and his old granny who used to sit by the fire peeling potatoes was Irish and he finds out that he can realise that ambition by playing for Ireland and he joins us. So what? He qualifies, he gives 100% even though he doesn't feel Irish (whatever that means) and helps our cause.

The motives don't bother me in the slightest but I know it's important to others. Ireland is the team I support. The make-up, origin, motives of the players don't cast me a thought provided they do their best. International football is just a form of club football except instead of cities, we have countries. I would take anyone who would improve the side who qualify under the rules be they opportunists, second generation adopted or born in Mayfield.

Requesting a ban is a bannable offence

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

The motives don't bother me in the slightest but I know it's important to others. Ireland is the team I support. The make-up, origin, motives of the players don't cast me a thought provided they do their best. International football is just a form of club football except instead of cities, we have countries. I would take anyone who would improve the side who qualify under the rules be they opportunists, second generation adopted or born in Mayfield.

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+1.

If it turns out that the player who scored the goal/saved the penalty/made the goalline clearance that sent us into the world cup was a pure opportunist who felt little to no affiliation to Ireland and who'd much rather be playing for a different team, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to me.

I know it would make a difference to others, but I have a sneaking suspicion that in many cases, this desire for a sense of Irishness would decrease at a rate inversely proportional to the talent of the player and the benefit they would bring to the team.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Requesting a ban is a bannable offence

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Forum equivalent of waving an imaginary yellow card at the ref.

It's a slight reference to this
https://frinkiac.com/meme/S06E16/928...xFIE9GRkVOU0Uu
Very disappointed none if you got it

Not recognising a Simpsons Quote?? That's a paddling!!

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Originally Posted by Dunners

TOWK

How about naming your all time English born Ireland x11

thought i start you off

Dean Kiely

Jason Mcateer - David O'Leary - Paul McGrath - Terry Phelan

Tony Galvin - Andy Townsend - John Sherridan - Kevin Kilbane

Tony Cascarino - John Aldridge

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Jason McAteer at right back? THAT is a paddling.

Would favour Hughton over Phelan

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Originally Posted by Colbert Report

Jason McAteer at right back? THAT is a paddling.

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McAteer was a very good full back.
In fact, immediately when Kelly got sent off v Netherlands in 2001, I though Mick should have placed McAteer at RB and moved Duff out wide right, that would have been much better.:)

Chris Morris would be the full back in that line up surely.

Hat trick for Hogan today

Yeah, saw that, he would want to ease off till we cap him or it could start looking a bit three lions.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

Yeah, saw that, he would want to ease off till we cap him or it could start looking a bit three lions.

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yep, it's a race against time now before we either cap him or we are banned from mentioning his name.

@ samhaydenjr

I admire your optimism, but that's a very optimistic way of looking at things. Bamford and Hogan's enthusiasm for playing for Ireland is self-explanatory. I am not going to post the relevant quotes again. To me, it looks like Keane is putting the feelers out because his career is in a bit of a downswing. In any case, I don't think he would do a job for us let alone England.

Arter, Christie and McGoldrick all ended up playing for Ireland without any protraction. If we are still talking about players potentially playing for us months and years down the line I think it's somewhat of an exercise in futility.

Well Christie has flat out admitted that he played for Ireland because he wasn't good enough to play for England - I admire his honesty. I recall McGoldrick saying similar. I can't speak for Arter or O'Dowda. The latter may become a Premier League star, admittedly, but he didn't even make the bench for Bristol City today and from what I have seen of him he has a lot to learn at Championship level.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

@ samhaydenjr

I admire your optimism, but that's a very optimistic way of looking at things. Bamford and Hogan's enthusiasm for playing for Ireland is self-explanatory. I am not going to post the relevant quotes again. To me, it looks like Keane is putting the feelers out because his career is in a bit of a downswing. In any case, I don't think he would do a job for us let alone England.

Arter, Christie and McGoldrick all ended up playing for Ireland without any protraction. If we are still talking about players potentially playing for us months and years down the line I think it's somewhat of an exercise in futility.

Well Christie has flat out admitted that he played for Ireland because he wasn't good enough to play for England - I admire his honesty. I recall McGoldrick saying similar. I can't speak for Arter or O'Dowda. The latter may become a Premier League star, admittedly, but he didn't even make the bench for Bristol City today and from what I have seen of him he has a lot to learn at Championship level.

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I don't think it's necessarily an overly-optimistic way to look at things - I try to look at people's motivations and situations and try to figure if they're acting in a reasonable and fair manner (although I know I might disagree with your somewhat more cynical view at my peril, given that you were right about the whole JG issue;)). And granted, it does look like Will Keane is just putting out feelers, as you say, and so far he really hasn't done any thing to merit a call-up. And any Bamford switch would certainly seem a bit cynical, particularly if it happens while he's warming benches around the Premier League.

As regards players who had shown no interest prior to call-up, I remember an interview with Clinton Morrison on RTE where he was asked about this and he said the best thing to do is think about it and make a decision without "protraction" as you put it. I think Christie fits into this category and, given that we approached him, I guess it is only natural that a comparison of his prospects with his various international options would have been one of the criteria involved and that he's being honest to admit that.

Arter, as was noted before, has a long-time association with us, having gained 11 under-age caps. Had he been more successful at Charlton, where he started, he'd possibly have been a 30-cap player by now and we wouldn't be having this discussion. But because he took a circuitous route to the top, he dropped off our list until the last couple of seasons. So in reality he is a committed Irish International who just blossomed a little later in his career.

I've already outlined McGoldrick's emotional desire to play for us and I think that should outweigh any views he might have expressed about not being good enough for England.

As regards Hogan, after his hat-trick today, I'm sold on him. That's thirteen goals in fifteen league appearances since he returned from injury. It's time to approach him and actively speak to him about his international future. His statements about not thinking about his options were from May, when he was just back in the Brentford squad after his comeback and when it was just purely speculative talk, so understandably his focus was on establishing himself at his club. But, given his phenomenal goalscoring form since then, things have got real on this front and I think we should seriously think about offering him a place in an extended squad, at least, to see how he fits in, with the possibility of a run-out if a November friendly is organised. Or who knows? Maybe some game time in the competitive games if they're going particularly well or badly. Because, as I may have noted, we need strikers.

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Originally Posted by samhaydenjr

As regards players who had shown no interest prior to call-up, I remember an interview with Clinton Morrison on RTE where he was asked about this and he said the best thing to do is think about it and make a decision without "protraction" as you put it. I think Christie fits into this category and, given that we approached him, I guess it is only natural that a comparison of his prospects with his various international options would have been one of the criteria involved and that he's being honest to admit that.

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According to this Irish Post interview with Christie, he had informed the FAI about his eligibility but said it came to nowt. Some tine later FA did contact him around the same time as O'Neill did, but in the end it was an easy rapid choice for him and Lee Carsley settled any lingering doubts about fitting in.