Lisbon Treaty

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Originally Posted by don ramo

hope everyone has there passports up to date lads, casue the celtic tiger is already a pussy cat, now its on death row, :mad:

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No, its all okay now. The Lisbon Treaty passed, there are going to be jobs coming out of Enda Kenny's @rse on Monday morning.

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Originally Posted by John83

Poppycock. 42% of the electorate 'voted' that they didn't care what the outcome was. That the electorate is that disinterested is awful, but it doesn't make the vote any less democratic.

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Do we not think it a viable statement that in order for the government to effect what they perceive to be hugely important constitutional change upon us that it should require a majority of the people to agree ?

It clearly is not the case today in our current system - but surely by staying away, the government have failed to persuade those people of the fundamental importance of the change to our constitutional arrangements ?

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Originally Posted by John83

I kind of agree, but I've never seen a convincing alternative. The US system of the two dominant parties each putting one candidate forward (other candidates are effectively irrelevant) is hardly better.

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You are right - there is no perfect alternative - but despite the fact that the US is a corrupt society, their system, on paper, is as close to ideal as one could conceive

The US people get to vote every 2 years at national level, get to vote at local level on representative issues and on state level issues - and once they elect congress and the senate, a key piece of their representatives job is to aprpove a vast array of posts within the administration

Miles away from being perfect but nobody in the US has ever been president - or ever will be, without either having been on a national ticket, or having inherited the office through a perverse set of circumstance (both the P and VP killed) - but there is an act of succession

So they will never have a president that is an inconceivable selection - and they get to vote on each one !

We have Jose Manuel Barroso - who nobody voted for

While some of the US electoral system's attributes are great - you missed recall elections - it's not "close to ideal" by any stretch of the imagination. Their electoral college system is undemocratic and prone to fraud; single winner is, to be perfectly frank, just plain crap; and their preponderance to make just about everything electoral - sherrif, coroner, judge, parking valet - is just silly.

A mash-up of ours and theirs would be nice though.

adam

I think the Coir and UKIP thing had an effect alright, as had the vast amounts of money the yes side had at their disposal. All in all it was a farcical campaign from the vast majority on both sides and made a mockery of political engagement.

I would agree with the above. I think as much as anything the No side lost this as opposed to the Yes side really winning it. Coir did immense damage, they certainly managed to publicise themselves though.

I think Ganley could have made a difference but the Libertas poster campaign was shockingly bad, with the possible exception of the Cowen poster it really can't have done their cause any good.

The No side lacked any real credible voices, hence the nutters were able to set the agenda.

So where do I apply for one of these jobs a Yes vote was going to create?

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Originally Posted by Mr A

I think Ganley could have made a difference but the Libertas poster campaign was shockingly bad, with the possible exception of the Cowen poster it really can't have done their cause any good.

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Those Libertas ones were almost funny they were so bad. I nearly choked the first time I saw one.

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

So where do I apply for one of these jobs a Yes vote was going to create?

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Enda Kenny's back passage, apparently.

I was under the impression that the Yes side were saying a No vote would cost jobs rather than a Yes vote creating them.

It'll be interesting to see if even a fraction of the bad stuff predicted by the No side comes to pass now that we've broken our sacred covenant with Jesus.

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Originally Posted by Angus

Do we not think it a viable statement that in order for the government to effect what they perceive to be hugely important constitutional change upon us that it should require a majority of the people to agree ?

It clearly is not the case today in our current system - but surely by staying away, the government have failed to persuade those people of the fundamental importance of the change to our constitutional arrangements ?

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Have we ever had an absolute majority of voters for any issue in this country? I don't think it's practical while apathy is an option.

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Originally Posted by joey4ireland

Do people think the likes of ukip cost the no side dearly? I know coir didn't help.

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Look lads, the No side didn't lose it. The Yes side didn't win it. Fear won it. My own constituency overturned it's high No vote last year, we lost all bar 2 constituencies. It's not losing that hurts, as much as the scale of the defeat. The Yes side didn't suddenly gain 21% of the public's support in a year. There was another factor, and we have no control over that.

Mary McAleese doesn't have many more duties left, apart from give her assent to the treaty. When someone like Blair becomes EU President, that's who we'll be answerable to.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

It'll be interesting to see if even a fraction of the bad stuff predicted by the No side comes to pass now that we've broken our sacred covenant with Jesus.

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I haven't laughed that hard since the comedy club closed. No father Ted analogy does it. I'd buy a TV licence if RTE would give these people their own prime-time show. They are priceless and would be the funniest thing on telly.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

I was under the impression that the Yes side were saying a No vote would cost jobs rather than a Yes vote creating them.

It'll be interesting to see if even a fraction of the bad stuff predicted by the No side comes to pass now that we've broken our sacred covenant with Jesus.

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You're right, a pronouncement by some crackpot holy Joe is definitely comparable to assurances given by all the major parties and multinationals in the state in the course of multi-million euro advertising campaigns.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

That's an interesting conversation you're having with yourself there don ramo. You're aware of our single account rule, yes?

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i know it looks strange but i thought answearing my own questions would look less crazy if i quoted them, :o

but i would like to know the time scale involved as to when we will be exiting this recession, and when all the jobs are coming back, cause we will stay in this recession untill we get positive growth, which will require the country to make money, and for the country to make money, it needs to create jobs,

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Originally Posted by don ramo

but i would like to know the time scale involved as to when we will be exiting this recession, and when all the jobs are coming back, cause we will stay in this recession untill we get positive growth, which will require the country to make money, and for the country to make money, it needs to create jobs,

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To use the last recession as an example, it began in the mid-70's as a result of the oil crisis and ended in Ireland in 1983, roughly 10 years long. It wasn't until 1994 before jobs became readily available. 21 years after entering the EU.

We should be technically out of recession soon. However, several years of severe budgets dictated by Brussels and Frankfurt, and jobless economic "growth" as a result of those budgets will have to be endured before jobs become readily available here again. The unemployment situation will worsen considerably by that time. That's the reality of what we have to look forward to.

And no vote to make a difference.

i am deffinately not looking forward to the next decade, but you whats great for creating jobs, a nice big war:D

Now we've voted King Tony I into power I'd say the chances of that are pretty high!

Idiocy!!! And people were conned into a yes vote by this?:o

I paused the vid when I saw who it was. I wouldn't give him the publicity. Same goes for his leader. He is partly responsible for 200k jobs lost, and savage cuts in salaries due to levies.

I would be inclined to agree with the comments below though.