The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

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09/12/2009, 10:43 AM
cheech

Hope you didn't break anything when you fell off your high-horse ldcfcsteve..

You have spent years on this forum pontificating about how Shels, Bohs, Rovers, Cork etc conduct their business. Now, when your own club has been shown up to the be the biggest liars and cheats of them all, you make childish remarks about Ballybofey.

If you could please answer me this: (in less than 1,000 words if possible)

Do you think Derry City, trading under the new entity, should be allowed to 'continue' playing in the Setanta Cup? If so, why?
09/12/2009, 4:31 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

Hope you didn't break anything when you fell off your high-horse ldcfcsteve..

You have spent years on this forum pontificating about how Shels, Bohs, Rovers, Cork etc conduct their business. Now, when your own club has been shown up to the be the biggest liars and cheats of them all, you make childish remarks about Ballybofey.

If you could please answer me this: (in less than 1,000 words if possible)

Do you think Derry City, trading under the new entity, should be allowed to 'continue' playing in the Setanta Cup? If so, why?

Good to see that sense of humour by-pass you had some time ago is still delivering the goods..... :o

Do I think City should continue in Setanta ? Yes, for three reasons.

One - I'm a city fan, so obviously not objective on the issue. Hey - that's football.

Secondly - it's an invitational tournament, so the organisers could invite Osama Bin Laden's Select XI to participate if they wanted. I'm not sure what part of it being an invitational tournament you managed to miss ? :confused:

Finally - the fact that the competition is already half way through means it would be logistically messy to chop a team out at this stage.

So go bore Setanta with your question. Whatever they decide to do re City's place in the tournament is their decision, and it'll be fine by me either way.

Lots of love,

Sx
09/12/2009, 6:25 PM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I can assure you that "most" City fans see no difference between the club new and old. It's all DCFC. Different Directors and trading entities, same club.

I appreciate how the fans feel, as it was the same with Limerick 37. But the point is that Limerick 37 was a new club. And if tiktok is correct when he says this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiktok

The existing FAI contract [which is torn up anyway] and membership can only be transferred to a new entity if that entity fully absorbs all the debts of the previous owning entity. If New/Cherry/Continuity DCFC was able to absorb the debts, there'd have been no need to wind up the old company.

You can certainly buy the trading name and continue as the old club and good luck to you, but from the perspective of licencing, participation agreements, membership of the FAI, contracts with the association you are a new club and Prize money from the previous entity, European places, Setanta Cup places etc., etc., cannot be carried on.

It leads me to believe that Derry City FC are a new club, as they haven't absorbed the debt of the previous entity. This makes me wonder how they will be able to avoid starting in the A-Championship.
09/12/2009, 6:51 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by osarusan

It leads me to believe that Derry City FC are a new club, as they haven't absorbed the debt of the previous entity. This makes me wonder how they will be able to avoid starting in the A-Championship.

A large serving of fudge.

Tiktok is spot on in what he's said.
09/12/2009, 7:53 PM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

One - I'm a city fan, so obviously not objective on the issue. Hey - that's football.

Which City? :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Secondly - it's an invitational tournament, so the organisers could invite Osama Bin Laden's Select XI to participate if they wanted. I'm not sure what part of it being an invitational tournament you managed to miss ?

Yes the invites were sent out last season with deadlines to agree and sign the participation agreement. That date has passed. Also the participation agreement is conditional on FAI stipulations being complied with :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Finally - the fact that the competition is already half way through means it would be logistically messy to chop a team out at this stage.

Sx

Not really and could be easily overcome with an addtional play off game incorporated. :)
09/12/2009, 8:27 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

I'd take your arm off for a similar deal if it got rid of Harps debts.

Are you a harps director? I'm not a Wellvan director and neither was Steve, so really fans views and opinions are frankly irrelevant in terms of deciding this course of action.

You seem to be repeatedly ignoring and downplaying the consequences of the circumstances involving Wellvan going into adminstration and presumably in due course liquidation.

We are now known as cheats throughout the League. Having attended a Supporters Trust meeting on Sunday night the common theme amongst almost all the fans who spoke and who I spoke to after was one of disgust at what had gone on at the club. There was no sense of us having played it clever or indeed gotten away with anything. The clubs reputation is ruined and will take years to rebuild.

As for the personal implications for the directors, as I have mentioned repeatedly these could well be very severe and extend into their other business interests and personal lives. I'm not saying this because I have sympathy for them, I don't. Its relevant because you keep portraying what we're going through as some kind of carefully orchestrated plan where everybody related to DCFC wins.

So in terms of your "we've landed on our feet and every club would jump at the opportunity we got" spiel, its pretty far from the truth.
09/12/2009, 8:32 PM
cheech

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Are you a harps director? I'm not a Wellvan director and neither was Steve, so really fans views and opinions are frankly irrelevant in terms of deciding this course of action.

You seem to be repeatedly ignoring and downplaying the consequences of the circumstances involving Wellvan going into adminstration and presumably in due course liquidation.

We are now known as cheats throughout the League. Having attended a Supporters Trust meeting on Sunday night the common theme amongst almost all the fans who spoke and who I spoke to after was one of disgust at what had gone on at the club. There was no sense of us having played it clever or indeed gotten away with anything. The clubs reputation is ruined and will take years to rebuild.

As for the personal implications for the directors, as I have mentioned repeatedly these could well be very severe and extend into their other business interests and personal lives. I'm not saying this because I have sympathy for them, I don't. Its relevant because you keep portraying what we're going through as some kind of carefully orchestrated plan where everybody related to DCFC wins.

So in terms of your "we've landed on our feet and every club would jump at the opportunity we got" spiel, its pretty far from the truth.

If the figure of 12K a week re: wages is anywhere near the truth then you will have approx 4 times the average budget of clubs in the First Division. Seems sweet enough to me. Especially when you factor in the fact that anywhere between 500K and 1 million sterling has been airbrushed from your history.
09/12/2009, 8:36 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

If the figure of 12K a week re: wages is anywhere near the truth then you will have approx 4 times the average budget of clubs in the First Division. Seems sweet enough to me. Especially when you factor in the fact that anywhere between 500K and 1 million sterling has been airbrushed from your history.

No idea where that figure came from, let me guess, a poster on an internet forum?
09/12/2009, 8:39 PM
Mr A

No, I'm not a Harps director.

And I don't think Derry have executed a cunning plan. I just think that being leapfrogged over the A division and escaping a points deduction in this case is a more favourable outcome than could be reasonably expected in the circumstances. And staying in the Setanta would be the cherry on the cake. My argument here is that the FAI do not appear to be handling this particularly well, not with what Derry are doing.

Also, the personal guarantees etc need not happen (although they usually do when people are ballsing up a club). You could set up some sacrificial lambs to whom being barred from directorships etc wouldn't matter too much and work it that way if a club did decide to go down that path and knew that you could start again one division down.
09/12/2009, 8:45 PM
cheech

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Good to see that sense of humour by-pass you had some time ago is still delivering the goods..... :o

Do I think City should continue in Setanta ? Yes, for three reasons.

One - I'm a city fan, so obviously not objective on the issue. Hey - that's football.

Secondly - it's an invitational tournament, so the organisers could invite Osama Bin Laden's Select XI to participate if they wanted. I'm not sure what part of it being an invitational tournament you managed to miss ? :confused:

Finally - the fact that the competition is already half way through means it would be logistically messy to chop a team out at this stage.

So go bore Setanta with your question. Whatever they decide to do re City's place in the tournament is their decision, and it'll be fine by me either way.

Lots of love,

Sx

Normally I don't mind a debate with you but I'm not going to bother here as you are obviously scrapping the bottom of the barrel with both your credibility and attempts at wit. I find it mildly surprising that such a connoisseur of the game can't be objective although the likes of Maribor Kev and ORA can.

Without wanting to get sidetracked regarding an invitational tournament, this 'Derry City' is a different club. If the competition has a fibre of integrity, this would never be allowed to happen.

It will also be interesting to see if the 'old' Derry City's points will be awarded to the 'new' Derry City's points.
09/12/2009, 8:46 PM
cheech

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

No idea where that figure came from, let me guess, a poster on an internet forum?

Your new chairman said that the playing budget would be 50% of last years budget.

If the figures from last year are to be believed (yeah yeah I know) the playing budget was �25,000.
09/12/2009, 8:58 PM
Cosmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

Without wanting to get sidetracked regarding an invitational tournament, this 'Derry City' is a different club. If the competition has a fibre of integrity, this would never be allowed to happen.

Wouldve presumed that was the case and theres no way the setanta cup could continue on with this new club from derry just taking over from where the other club from derry left

Setanta cups been going down hill the last year or two imo - if they allow the new club from derry carrying on in this seasons competition from where the other one left, that would be the end of it having any sort of integrity alright.
09/12/2009, 9:36 PM
shantykelly

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

Your new chairman said that the playing budget would be 50% of last years budget.

If the figures from last year are to be believed (yeah yeah I know) the playing budget was �25,000.

at a meeting of the supporters trust on sunday past, attended by the majority of the board of directors of the new holding company, philip o'doherty stated quite openly that next years playing budget would be significantly lower than this years, less than 50%. and that is only if we get into the league. the application is in, but its not a done deal.

as for the setanta cup. would i rather play in it now? no, not really, but until we're kicked out of it by the organisers, we'll not say no. and folks, bear in mind here that its the fai that allowing us to apply for a place in the first division. when the news broke regarding all this thisness, most derry fans would gladly have settled for the A League and a chance to rebuild. we're being offered more than we expected, and truth be told have a right to get, but which fan of his or her club wouldnt jump at the chance of improving their position, especially when we have so much rebuilding to do. i can just imagine it now:

fai - here derry, take this place in the first division
dcfc - ah, no thanks there. i think i'll just keep flagellating myself in the corner here if its all the same to you.

are we happy at the way things have been done? no
are we going to take every opportunity to save our club and get it into the best position possible in the circumstances? yes
are there any football fans here who wouldn't take the same for their club if in similar straits? honestly? (apart from ucd lads).
09/12/2009, 9:41 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

So in terms of your "we've landed on our feet and every club would jump at the opportunity we got" spiel, its pretty far from the truth.

Maybe for ye, since it all happened quite quickly. But I can guarantee 99% of fanas down here would jump at the chance to be in ye're position. Ye may not realise it but it could have been a lot worse and ye are lucky.

That said, none of the fudging is the fans or even new directors fault. As said above no one would say no. The FAi certainly have questions to answer though
09/12/2009, 9:52 PM
srfc1928

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheech

If the figure of 12K a week re: wages is anywhere near the truth then you will have approx 4 times the average budget of clubs in the First Division. Seems sweet enough to me. Especially when you factor in the fact that anywhere between 500K and 1 million sterling has been airbrushed from your history.

Most Premier Division clubs wont have a budget near that figure next season.
09/12/2009, 10:03 PM
Doomofman

Quote:

Originally Posted by srfc1928

Most Premier Division clubs wont have a budget near that figure next season.

I think you underestimate just how badly some of the clubs are run...
09/12/2009, 10:13 PM
cheech

Quote:

Originally Posted by shantykelly

at a meeting of the supporters trust on sunday past, attended by the majority of the board of directors of the new holding company, philip o'doherty stated quite openly that next years playing budget would be significantly lower than this years, less than 50%. and that is only if we get into the league. the application is in, but its not a done deal.

as for the setanta cup. would i rather play in it now? no, not really, but until we're kicked out of it by the organisers, we'll not say no. and folks, bear in mind here that its the fai that allowing us to apply for a place in the first division. when the news broke regarding all this thisness, most derry fans would gladly have settled for the A League and a chance to rebuild. we're being offered more than we expected, and truth be told have a right to get, but which fan of his or her club wouldnt jump at the chance of improving their position, especially when we have so much rebuilding to do. i can just imagine it now:

fai - here derry, take this place in the first division
dcfc - ah, no thanks there. i think i'll just keep flagellating myself in the corner here if its all the same to you.

are we happy at the way things have been done? no
are we going to take every opportunity to save our club and get it into the best position possible in the circumstances? yes
are there any football fans here who wouldn't take the same for their club if in similar straits? honestly? (apart from ucd lads).

Good post and extra points for flagellating! Honestly, I'm not having a go at the Derry fans (except Sanctimonious Steve) ;)

If it were us, of course I would want the same thing. But the fact is that fans of other clubs will be up in arms as in most people's eyes you have gotten off very lightly. A place in the Setanta Cup would be the last boot up the hole for the rest of us.
09/12/2009, 10:24 PM
shantykelly

well, we can't punish ourselves.

as for the former board - ORA is 100% right, there are serious consequences for their actions. one being that if wellvan is liquidated, they cant hold company directorships for three years. bit of a problem for some of those guys who run their own businesses.

this situation isnt finished yet, not by a long shot. i expect it rival that old show 'sunset beach' by the time its done.
09/12/2009, 10:39 PM
corkharps

[QUOTE=shantykelly;1291280

as for the former board - ORA is 100% right, there are serious consequences for their actions. one being that if wellvan is liquidated, they cant hold company directorships for three years. bit of a problem for some of those guys who run their own businesses.

[/QUOTE]

They cheated and broke the law! What do you expect?
09/12/2009, 10:54 PM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by corkharps

They cheated and broke the law! What do you expect?

Read the thread.

The point being made is that whether or not the team ending up debt free in the first division (if that is what eventually happens) constitutes "getting off lightly", the directors are obviously not getting off lightly. Nobody is trying to make them out as victims here.

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