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Horse,
My point exactly that once a ref is consistent in his decisions for both teams there would be far less complaining about refs. And in my opinion a ref who can talk to players and managers without handing out yellows usually tend to be the fellas who get less abuse and who teams like having reffing their games.
Don't get me wrong I'm no angel either when it comes to the refs but we have to try and make it easier for them too.
Bella somethings might be best to keep within the club!!Quote:
Originally Posted by bellavistaman
Greenwood are a good side, and played very well, not taking away from that and the run that they are on!!! Dont agree wit the fact that 4 games is the reason why the pitch is so bad, im presuming that hill on the pitch wasnt as a result of 4 matches onit. If thats the case our pitch shud b like Patricks hill cause of all the schoolboy games ther each week, let alone us, the 17's and our snr team playin on it. Its Blackstone i feel sorry for they have to play ther 2 wks ina row :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRock
Funny stat Leeds Park - last Saturday was our first ever defeat there I believe.
Greenwood got 12 points in 10 days during the month - 6 from Ballincollig on the Wednesday & two wins in a row - fair play to them.
Bella, what was the discussion on the A's and B's at the beginning of the season in your club?
Owl/Radio, what "rules" do ye have within the club about the A & B team? Apart from the goalie thing last year, ye never seem to have hassle....or is there a hidden message in Radio's message to Bella?????
On the refs thing, we actually have a review of our line's performance as a point on our weekly committee meeting. We are well aware of our need to make life easier for them.
However, the fact that we cant comment on them or offer constructive criticsm is not right. However they can and we have to defend it. The "We can write to the AUL" thing is bull and we all know it. If the ref who is complained doesnt hold it against the team, then maybe his "brothers in arms" will. Would it help a line snapping at a ref when they know they have a forum to air their grievances?
Maybe the solution is to ask head of Refs Brian O Regan and one of his assessors to a delegate meeting every month or two. No team can moan about a ref then if they dont show up at a delegate meeting so it may help the delegate meeting attendance as a bonus!
Stuff like "He roobed us" is crap and wouldnt be welcome.
Points that could have come up since the season began:
- The ref who disrespects the players by calling them to him like a schoolboy.
- The ref who pulls out his cards in the first five mins of a game, putting pressure on himself and the players.
- The ref who communicates his decisions to the lines, therby eliminating any doubts.
- The ref who communicates what added time he is playing.
- The refs who control games without cards - how do they do it?
- The sidelines of teams where refs dread to go.
- How much the hell does a game in Prem A cost?
- Is deliberate handball a definite yellow? (Socks is our hero with that answer)
-Which refs have produced the best performances.....win or lose!!
Horse, i would have to agree with Radio. i think that is information that should stay within the club. I think every club that has 1,2 or even three teams will have different situations during the year that will require perhaps players to be called to play for either team (within the rules obviously). Even though we may not agree with it every time its usually done in the best interests of the club. I can see Bellas point, especially with the player that was cup tied but sayin that, i have nothing to do with that club and wouldnt like to coment any further about it.
I see we are not down to play anyone this week. Thought the days of free weekends were gone considering the backlog. Might suit us a bit. have a few players carrying knocks so it will give them an extra bit to recover. Although its old age setting in with some of them !!!!!:)
Horse.I think its a great idea to get Mr Regan to come along and an accessor as well.To answers questions that we feel need to be answered.But the only way those meetings look to be attended would be if Mr Regan brought Beyonce with him,an a few of the SugerBabes.Cause you an I know the attendence is chite.When I started playing many many moons ago a certain Derry Barrett an Tony Hennessey reffed.Ledgends they were.They would talk ya through the game,tell ya where your goin wrong an make sure you understood they only wanted to help both teams play the game.Players respected them for it too an I know what Im on about too.I was a volitile little chap al la Bellemy an I d snap with player or ref no matter how big he was in a split 2nd if i though the decision was wrong,but thankfully the refs then for the most part would have a calming word and in hindsight I spent a hell of a lot more time playing because of it.Id never have survived nowadays.Ya say boo to a ref now it a yellow or red,a player its a dig an refs an players seem a lot more likely to get physcial.Its gone ridiculous.
.But times are different now Horse.Players an refs have changed.Attitudes are all wrong.Now if the decision dont go your way its rage and rant at the ref,even on small things.Its a lot more likely that me,you an nearly every poster will come on here an say the ref was poor,or worse rather than say so an so on your team let ya down.An then some refs will have the attitude of '' come here boy,who'd ya think your talkin ta,here have that la an if I hear ya once more your gone'' and from then on its just generally a battle between the ref an the 2 sides all based on abuse.The tv plays a massive part too cause it seems to have become accepable to abuse the ref on tv.Lads have grown up watching it week in week out.
Iv done it myself early this season,an it was a wake up call for me.We played Kinsale down in there place and at 2/1 up we were denied a stone wall peno.Us,Kinsale,feck even the seagulls thought it was a peno,the ref didnt give it,an we ended up loosin 4 /2 in the end.Now for a few weeks after all I was listening too was the ref robbed us.The ref cost us nothin,when we didnt get the peno we were still 2/1 up .The ref didnt conceed 3 goals.We did.The ref on the day did what he was supposed to an he reffed the game.We for 75 mins did what we were supposed to an were winning an for 15 we fell to peices.Simple as.I said to myself then I,d not blame a ref again for loosin a game.An I wont, I thought if as a team we cant be honest an take account for what we achive or dont then we will never become a better side.In every game we have lost or drawn this season we had enough chances to win an we didnt take them.Thats the truth.Thankfully I have a very gifted group of players who appriciate what we are trying to do and have played a blinder since the new year began,football an attitude wise and our club is delighted to have players of that ability and respect playing with our club.
.Like I said in 3 of the 5 games this year we didnt even pick up a bookin.The other 2, we got 3 yellows an 2 reds so its not all plain sailing but with a little work it can be done.I must also say for me the refs we have to deal wiht seem to be more open to talk durin the game,for me anyhow.I make it a habit of keeping the ref on my side by not gettin envolved with him by roaring an shouting an I think they appriciate that O'Neill Park is a place where we just want to play the game an enjoy it,and away from home Grattan will just get on with the game when the ref blows.I would actually go on record as sayin that a major part of the reason why we have 5 clean sheets from 5 games this year is that when the ref blows now we switch on defencesivley straight away rather than spended a few seconds whinging.
Im not saying that this way is the best way,but it is they only way I know we can have an effect on the refs performance an we can still win.Id stand behind ya 100% Horse an ya know I would but I just cant see how things will change unless we change the players attitudes first.
Unsporting behaviour is a cauntionable offence according to the laws of the game!! Deliberately handling the ball in an attempt to stop an opposition attack is unsporting behaviour surely??? I've read the laws of the game at length socks as I did the referees course in the past so can you please tell me where you are basing your opinion on?? The problem is the laws of the game are so vague we cant say either way who is right or wrong - all I ask is for consistency from game to game - how can one ref say something is a foul and a bookable offence and yet the next week it isnt??
The OWL - ye prob have a free weekend because there are now only 9 teams in our league!!
Littleman - just to clarify we didnt come on saying we lost over the Ref - we as a team on Saturday just werent good enough! It wasnt due to the Ref in any way shape or form!! Pearse wanted it more as i already outlined (also see below) and deservedly won - I also dont like the thought of getting an opposition player sent off but sometimes some of the decisions really baffle me
"Have to agree TheRock - Pearse were more hungry i felt! We didnt turn up and i felt perhaps some of our players used the pitch as an excuse for poor performances!! I know the keeper for Pearse from Hibs before! He made a big difference to Pearse - knowing you have a solid keeper behind you can make all the difference and give a team confidence!! Pearse were direct and up for the game - makes things interesting again in the Premier A!! "
Okay first and foremost, i'm a referee but i'm also a player so i appreciate both sides of the coin. i find in most places it is easy enough to referee. players genuinely appreciate that you are there to referee and for the most part make sure the game goes off without hitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horse24
But there are some places personally, and i won't name, that i know, i'm going to have a difficult time be it because of the side line or the attitude of the players which will come from the influence of coaches.
Likewise there are places where i would've expected by reputation thought i'd be in for a rough time only to have very easy time refereeing and all decisions are accepted without much objection.
i've been challenged by managers for sendings off, penalties and offsides that are so valid. i took up refereeing at 17 and i quit after one season cause some of the intimidation was unfair. i returned this year at 25 and for the most part i'm doing a good job.
i try to let the game flow and keep the whistle out of my mouth but i learned extremely quickly that it only takes one tackle to change a game and as i say turn it into a thriller and onto a knife's edge.
it can be very hard sometimes though cause processing so much in such short space of time and as a lone referee with no assistants its easy to miss stuff going behind your back, you can't call what you can't see. It is the most frustrating thing for me personally when i know there is niggling going on behind your back but there is little you can do.
playing wise i've little complaint with some referees, maybe i'm biased cause i am one.
An early yellow card is sometimes the only way to go to lay down the marker but that leaves you open to cat calls from the sidelines for the remainder of the game.
There is a referee from tipperary, who is part of the school of excellence. he has been brilliant in the Cork AUL. He refereed one of our games and awarded us a 90minute penalty to us, which genuinely could have gone either way.
The scenario was the player appeared to take a dive and the referee explained after he was initially blowing for a free out because of simulation but because there was contact by the defender before the act of simulation, he had no choice in his opinion but to award a penalty.
Last weekend, we'd a foreign referee, possibly polish, and once again he was firm, fair and consistent in his decision making and rather than producing cards at every dissent, he took his time to explain to the players and ensured they appreciated his position.
lads could anybody tell me the latest Cork AUL panel?? or training panel??
Delighted to have the other side of the coin on board Padjoe.
Olli you need to relax,do yoga or sometin.No one said you,ye or Blackstone especially,actually I didnt mention Blackstone at all.It was an open statement put out towards every poster.
Ghost,the Aul panel is anyones guess.Me an you an Olli might even be on it myself an we just dont know yet.;)
Owl, Bella may get chewed internally for that post alright, but fair play to him.
Bella, Did the A's from our first division last season stay as the A's?
Im just trying to figure if ye set down rules or just play it by ear.
Padjoe - Im not sure if we will ever see a better opening salvo than that. In my opinion, it strenghtens my point looking for refs/teams to get together. You have told us what a ref is thinking - "humanised" them for want of a better expression. Some people have no idea that refs are from Planet Earth as well.
If both sides get together, it can only be win-win as far as Im concerned...................Im like a dog with a chewtoy now - i dunno how Im gonna let go!!
I also want to point out that I have reffed half an U14 friendly, and it scared the hell outta me - abuse from parents & 14 year olds. I admire each and evry person in black who goes out, but Im just trying to make life easier for everyone
Littleman, it gives me great pleasure as a Pool fan to agree with you and point out that most weeks we watch Man U chase the ref around the pitch!!!..................Okay, I will admit Mascherano spends most games biting the ref - watch him its hilarious. If a free kick is given, he will say something to the ref as he pretends to fix the ball!! All jokes aside, it gives an awful example. However, personal experience has shown that a lot is down to the underage coach as well.
Thats me done for a few days now - Im knackered!!!
Littleman, I have seen Oli in training...................nuff said!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by littleman
Well said Padjoe, its good to get a referees view.Quote:
Originally Posted by padjoe
I've tried the yoga Littleman it does nothing for me!! It may have worked for Roy the Boy but its just not my thing!! Littleman I never said you mentioned Blackstone - where in my post did i say you mentioned us??? Considering it is my club colleague who is mainly posting regarding the referees at the moment i was just clarifying that we didnt lose because of the ref!! So perhaps it is you littleman who needs to relax ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by littleman
just a further point, before each game i do try and talk to each manager. not about the game ahead of us but just about the league, form, concerns and ideas to improve league and anything else in general just to make chit chat. its a better approach than just handing the managers match card and walking out and blowing the whistle. at least with a little conversation, light hearted etc you'll find out fairly quickly what kind of characters you'll deal with in the match and they kind of accept you as a human being as opposed to a ******** with a whistle. after every game i do shake both managers hands, good game or bad because at the end of the day it is just a game. if they have some positive or negative insights to offer i'll listen and take it on board.
ha good point littleman, names could be picked out of regans beenie from what ive seen so far!! id say thats why u havent hung up ur boots just yet ha. welcome padjoe good to see a ref posting here and be willing to get seriously quizzed with opinions and questions
Harsh - i've seen you play this season Horse - nuff said!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Horse24
Ghost the last time I played for the Oscar Traynor side was way way way back.Actually in the last decade no,it was the last millenium hahahahaha :D1997 if im correct,we lost to the TSDL,I hope thats not a bad omen..:(
Olli leave me alone, Im in the happy zone an ur too serious to deal with.Im only talkin to happy go lucky people:D
I'm too serious to deal with?? I'm not posting on here anymore - everyone is picking on me - including my club colleague!!Quote:
Originally Posted by littleman