Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
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Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Nothing set in stone but the plan is for Dalymount to become a sports center or village like they have at Barnet or Harlequins. So the rumors say. It's also been said that the DCC hope to put a gym, museum and retail stores. I'd imagine that'll be all done at the Tram End if the Phisboro SC is to be redeveloped too. Also there is a possibility that we'll have an astro turf pitch so many be the pitch will be smaller than it is now. As for capacity, anything between 5,000 to 10,000 has been thrown around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean South
As I said, nothing official just rumors and speculation atm.
I'd imagine the surface will be artificial judging by the number of games to be played on it. If this is to be a municipal sports facility for the entire community, the pitch may also have to be big enough for GAA games.
If they're doing this, I hope they do it right. Call it a bit of an oversight, but I'd really love to see Dalymount developed into a circa 15,000 seater stadium with top of the range facilities that could be used for FAI cup finals, potentially large European ties, the likes of Rugby World Cup, part of a Euro Under-21 championships bid, things like this.
Let's face it, while it's well and good having the FAI Cup final in Lansdowne, as alluded to already, it's a two-thirds empty most years. It'd be much better to see somewhat of a ticket scramble, and a packed out Dalymount for Cup final, as was the case years ago when Dalymount held the final.
I don't buy into the argument of "It'd be empty most of the year", as, really, at the minute, it is anyway with half of the ground closed. Linfield play in Windsor Park up the North with no bother in a similar sized stadium. I don't see why it couldn't be done here.
Look right across Europe and you see similar instances, even in larger leagues.
Closer to home, look at the GAA, Croke Park is full about four times a year, if even. Early Championship games struggle to attract 30,000 there. The same goes for Castlebar, Clones, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Gaelic Grounds Limerick and several other large stadiums.
A developed Dalymount, with better family facilities, more comfortable grounds, better seating, and an all round nicer ground to visit would certainly attract bigger crowds. I know Shamrock Rovers moved to a better populated area, but their Tallaght move has worked excellently for them, with an average attendance around 3,500-4,000 each year since moving there. There's no reason Bohs couldn't get the same in a redeveloped Dalyer. They only need to keep open two stands, one for home fans, one for away fans.
I firmly believe the League is starting to grow a lot in the last year or two. Better facilities and more impressive stadiums can only add to that growth.
Besides, Dalymount deserves it. Of all grounds in the league, it arguably has the most history, the biggest legacy, and would be a shame to see it only developed into a 5,000 seater ground not fit for further rounds in European competition should Bohs ever get that far. Clubs need to be more ambitious.
Lads, the FAI is broke (and paying back their Aviva loans), DCC are practically broke (only paying a minimum for this) and Bohs and Shels are broke. Talk of 15k seater stadium is crazy. No one has the money to pay for it here
The one thing LOI clubs are never short of is ambitions. They all have ambitions of super stadiums. But int he real world it's pretty hard to get goingQuote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Talk and hope of a 15k stadium isn't crazy at all, it makes sense that that capacity would be hoped for. To actually expect that to happen under current circumstances might be foolish or naive. PPP could become a factor as plans and costings start to bite!
It's now or never for the ground.The local TD ,Pascal O Donnohoe, is a key Minister in securing funding for sport and has been very supportive, ditto Joe Costelloe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
DCC''s perspective on this is that Phibsboro is a disjointed multi ethnic community that needs a focal point and that sport and particularly football is a way of bringing the community together.
I would be confident that significant capital investment from the State will be announced before the end of the year and that redevelopment work on a 6-8 k stadium will begin in early 2016.
I don't expect any investment from the FAI, but Delaney has done the sort of unheralded behind the scenes hard work on this, as he did when elements of the continuity GAA were trying to scupper Rovers and S DCC in Tallaght
.
With this development and the work in Limerick and Galway, possible new developments in Tallaght,Derry Dundalk and Harps and the finished product in Cork and Sligo, the facilities can't be an excuse for poor crowds for much longer.
Just need Harps to get promoted soon so!!
Suggestions on twitter that Bray may move from the Carlisle Grounds to another part of town having made €6 million for the selling the lease back to council. Only one source thus far- anyone got anything more concrete?
Where are the councils getting all this cash? Louth CoCo need to start digging deep. If only we could give Drogheda to Meath...
Being a two club county gives the council a great excuse to help neither club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
We'd be daft to move away from the DART line unless the money was really good. Effectively cutting Greystones out of the catchment area if they move the ground up Fassaroe or Ballywaltrim way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Drogheda tried their best with that - I vaguely recall their planning application stating that Drogheda United was an essential part of the social and sporting fabric of County Louth and therefore were seeking a €1.6million contribution to their new ground from Louth CoCo and a further sum from Drogheda Borough. The council were then offered the ownership of all the needed ground works, roads, sewage system etc in lieu!?!Quote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
Almost easier to get to Fassaroe than the Carlisle from Greystones?Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
Quick spin out the N11, no worrying about getting stuck in Bray's notorious traffic jams or missing the DART and waiting another half hour for the next one, easy parking if a greenfield site?
I'll take in a game in the Markets Field soon enough. Great to hear Limerick are back in their spiritual home.
If this goes through you'd imagine "we" and the club are being decoupled. If you move off the DART line you can kiss travelling crowds goodbye.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
If there was cover there might be no drop in away crowds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
There would be from Dublin clubs. No question at all about thatQuote:
Originally Posted by gufcfan
Cover's not much use if you can't get there. As Dodge says, fans from outside Dublin generally drive or get chartered buses. In Dublin, where the teams who bring the biggest crowds to Bray are, most of us use public transport. And many fans from other clubs do too, either if they live in Dublin or travel in on the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by gufcfan
It might make it easier for people who drive to games, but that would need adequate parking facilities. I suppose aiming for a different demographic might be no bad thing, it's not as though the current policy is massively successful in terms of crowds!Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
If any new ground has adequate transport links, I'd be happy. If the Luas extension ever gets built, for example, and there's plenty of parking space and bus stops around the new ground, it would be great. If they just plonk a few stands in a greenfield site in the middle of nowhere, it will be a disaster, and I don't trust the people in charge not to do something like that.
Like it or not, we're a club who are massively reliant on away crowds. We need to make Bray an attractive away day. If the ground is easy to get to, a nice place to be, and has good bars and places to get food nearby, people will follow their team there.
In fairness where is being talked about (same twitter rumour) is literally a 15 min walk from the dart but I would be very very concerned about the ability to do anything right when it comes to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
I would be surprised if the council have this sort of cash considering nothing is happening with the florentine (still) but nothing would surprise me at this stage.
There were such hopes for the club with all the talk of the takeover but they just seem to be going from one disaster to another and it is about time they just get their house in order as until they do they won't start to pull in the local support.
What's the location being talked about? I can't seem to find the twitter rumoursQuote:
Originally Posted by tippex
Bray would be crazy to move from the Carlisle ground... they have an extraordinary asset in their proximity to the Town / Station /DART etc.
A move to some far flung field with one just one stand (which is the likely scenario whether we like it or not) is not the way to go...
A modest, thrifty redevelopment of the current ground to improve the spectator experience would be the way to go I'd say, and if the economy picks up and the club get their act together and sort out the off the field issues then maybe consider cashing it in some time in the future...
Now is not the time, the Economy is on the up, a decent piece of ground like that with such proximity to DART is property development gold dust... that land could be worth the price of a complete new ground in 10 years time... [not wishing to sound all celtic-tigery, but that's the reality]
And Dundalk too. Dundalk fans always travel in numbers to Bray due to transport links.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I know for European games that only permanent structures are permitted, however does anyone know if clubs can make a request to UEFA for a temporary stand? The reason I ask is, I'm almost sure Cliftonville did this when they played Celtic 2 years ago, and made the case that it would be a low risk game, and I think a temp stand was erected.
Dundalk are limited to 3k seats, and they will have to install more seats in permitted areas, as a lot were removed from the middle of the shed side for example to allow fans to stand. With the avg league crowd at 3,300, there is going to be a lot of fans disappointed for the CL game.
Temporary stands can be put up on a permanent structure. We had a temporary stand erected on the permanent concrete terrace that used to be on the Railway End when we played Vorslka Poltava back in 2011. The CL might be different tho!Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
There are precedents of waiving infrastructure rules for sure. One of the Welsh sides had nowhere near the amount of seats for example that were a minimum requirement and people were 'standing' in areas of the ground. A temporary seated area could go behind the Carrick goal. It is a pity the town end hasnt at this stage been concreted to facilitate seating there too depending on the draw if not considering a move away from Oriel for the likes of Celtic if thats who we get. A proper bay of concrete where the mud can form that end cant really cost that much can it?
Even if we got Celtic (probably the one draw to consider moving it) I'd prefer if the club held the match in oriel park. If they could erect the same structure that was in place v Cork and Rovers last year, that would take the seating up to almost 5k. Do the job nicely.
Moving to the Aviva for example would cost thousands, not to mention giving up home advantage, then you have the worry of filling it, besides it's not going to increase the guaranteed prize money already in the bag.
It would fill alright, it would be full of Irish Celtic fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
Home games must be played in Oriel Park. These are not fund raising pre-season friendlies, they are competitive games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
If maximising gate receipts were the main criteria, a case could also be made for moving a Lech Poznan fixture.Quote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
I don't believe that the Dundalk board would seriously consider that, and Stephen Kenny would quickly and unequivocally give his view if necessary.
Winning (or at least giving yourself the best possible chance) is the central consideration and having the majority of the attendance supporting the opposition is not the way to go
Playing as many games as they possibly can in Oriel has to be priority for Dundalk. The last thing they need is to be drawing Celtic and having 30,000 Celtic fans and 4,000 Dundalk fans in Lansdowne. It would be a farce.
Drawing Celtic in Oriel wouldn't be much better unless the board put something strict in place that Dundalk fans were looked after well in advance of any Celtic fans.
As for extra seating, plenty of times it's been done before with temporary seating. Sure didn't Shamrock Rovers have temporary seats down for their Europa League groups?
Dundalk could put down seats on both ends of the ground and bump up the capacity to 6,000 or 7,000.
Surely whether it's Celtic or a team from Finland, you'll have demand way over capacity? I'd say there'll be an application for temporary seating and it'll be passed regardless of the opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
They may have demand over capacity but that doesn't mean they'll sell enough 'new' tickets to make it worthwhile to go to the expense of renting a stand
The temporary stand that was put up for the Cork game at the end of last season just about broke even.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I'd say the club would go ahead with one if the demand was there.
It's good marketing and the players get a buzz from a stadium with all sides full.
Breaking even on any potential temporary seating would just about suit if it means a tighter crowd and a more hostile atmosphere. They'll make plenty of money from it anyway as any Champions League tie will sell out in Dundalk.
If I were making the decisions at Dundalk and Celtic came out of the hat I'd move it to the Aviva if the figures stacked up. Cash in, spend the money on Oriel and help the long term stability of the club.
I can't really see that much being made playing in the Aviva. Must cost a fortune to host the game there. Plus we're giving up home advantage. I'd much rather play in Oriel, charge €30 a ticket and see local businesses (some of whom sponsor us) get a bit of trade. However if the FAI got us a very good deal on the Aviva then it might be worth investigating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
I reckon it would be in the FAI interest to give ye a good deal. They are going to make the money off the bar and food sales. I know I'd travel up to support Dundalk if it got moved there.
Ditto that. I'm looking to get to a European tie this year, so Dundalk playing in Lansdowne would be a good chance for me to get to one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofspring
It might be conceding home advantage but the Dundalk players may relish the opportunity to play at the Aviva. A sort of small time dress rehearsal for the big day out at the Aviva late October!