Lisbon Treaty

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01/10/2009, 1:46 PM
holidaysong

I was just listening to Today FM and they played the Snow Patrol song 'Just Say Yes'.. An attempt to get around the media moratorium perhaps!? :eek:
01/10/2009, 2:32 PM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus

FF got 41% of first preference votes - even if you include the Greens, that number gets up to 46%, which I think you will find is less than a majority. Incidentally, including the PD's still leaves you less than 50%

SF out polled the Greens by 50%, yet the Greens are in government

I know what you are saying - that the government was elected democratically - and you are of course right - all I am saying is that more people voted against this government than for it

With the multi-party PR system we have, no party has to get 50%, they just have to get the most votes. If they don't get 83 seats, they have to form a coalition with someone else in order to get those numbers. The more they get, the stronger the chances of staying in power for the full term. With another twist in the system, if the combined numbers of FG and Labour exceed those of FF, it's they that get the prize.

FG gained back the 20 seats that they lost in 2002 at the last election, but Labour lost one. FF got more than them, 78-73, and so got to form the government.

Back on-topic....

Quote:

Originally Posted by eamo1

A couple of Czech politicians are lodging an appeal to their own court to have a second vote of the treaty in their parliment.If they succeed it could potentially sink the treaty as it will delay it being passed in the Czech Rep until June when the British general election will take place where the conservatives are favourites to win and have said they wont ratify the treaty.

It's 17 of them lodging the appeal. The UK can withdraw parliament's ratification of the treaty should the Conservatives win it, and it hasn't been ratified in every other country, and hold the referendum. Unfortunately, it's unlikely the Czechs can hold out long enough before the UK election is called next year, in order to trigger that referendum.
01/10/2009, 2:57 PM
Mr A

So you're hoping the Conservatives win?
01/10/2009, 4:26 PM
bennocelt

Quote:

Originally Posted by holidaysong

I was just listening to Today FM and they played the Snow Patrol song 'Just Say Yes'.. An attempt to get around the media moratorium perhaps!? :eek:

Need to call in for a request then - 2 Unlimited?:)
02/10/2009, 4:45 AM
mypost

Right lads, so it's D-Day. Today, you are voting on whether to approve or reject the ratification of the EU Lisbon Treaty by the Irish Government of the 28th Amendment to the Irish Constitution. You've read the arguments, but if you still haven't made up your mind, well here is mypost's final arguments on the treaty.

Among other things, If you are convinced by the economic arguments made by Yes campaigners, and approve the increase of this EU state's spending on it's military capabilities, you are free to vote with the Government on the Lisbon Treaty.

If you hold concerns over the nature of the role of the President of the European Council, if you wish the Irish Foreign Minister to decide our foreign policy rather than the EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs, if you are sceptical of the decision by 26 EU heads of state to bypass their electorates in ratifying the Lisbon Treaty, if you are annoyed at having to vote again, and/or any other reasons, you are free to reject the EU Constitutional Lisbon Treaty.

When you go to the polls today, you have the future of 500 million citizens on your ballot paper. You can decide to obey the government or obey the will of the people in 3 earlier state referendums. Make your choice, and make it carefully. You are lucky to have the opportunity.

The official result of the referendum will be declared around 5pm tomorrow.
02/10/2009, 8:19 AM
bennocelt

For me its a No vote all the way.

A few reasons................
Democracy.............We already voted No and it wasnt accepted. Not only that but Cowen and co went to Brussels to APOLOGISE to the EU for what the Irish electorate did.
We are asked to vote again on the same treaty.
If the politicans asked us to vote YEs the first time and nowclaim there has been some improvements this time, does that mean that they were all wrong to push a inferior treaty the first time round!!!!!?????

second reason............it would def mean the end of FF and Cowen

third reason............people in Europe are watching us, esp in the UK........fingers crossed we wont embaress ourselves:(
02/10/2009, 9:51 AM
Mr A

I have already voted yes.

There have been many good reasons to vote yes, I haven't seen the No side make a single one of any great importance that stood up to scrutiny. To me the No campaign has been based around political opportunism, untruths and downright paranoia.
02/10/2009, 10:18 AM
EAFC_rdfl

sorry to go OT, but i registered to vote earlier in the year in galway (moving it from donegal) and got a letter confirming it was done. but no voting card arrived in this week. who or where should I aim my annoyance? Galway co co? I know it will do no good, but it will make me feel better :D
02/10/2009, 10:29 AM
Angus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

I have already voted yes.

There have been many good reasons to vote yes, I haven't seen the No side make a single one of any great importance that stood up to scrutiny. To me the No campaign has been based around political opportunism, untruths and downright paranoia.

Agree entirely with your assessment of the No campaign - but respectfully suggest that in this case, that it is unwise to base a voting intention on the relative quality of the 2 campaigns - both of which have been awful
02/10/2009, 10:36 AM
Mr A

I didn't. I based it on what was actually in the treaty- essentially a clean-up of the EU way of working.

As for the yes side- they at least have the defence that they were fighting fire with fire this time having been blown away by the No side's misdirection previously.

Incidentally- I still think there is a fair chance that the No side will win.
02/10/2009, 11:30 AM
eamo1

Eafc.

FAO,you can still vote if you didnt get a voting card.If your name is on the register just bring your Passport or I.D and they will let you vote.
02/10/2009, 12:18 PM
KevB76

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAFC_rdfl

sorry to go OT, but i registered to vote earlier in the year in galway (moving it from donegal) and got a letter confirming it was done. but no voting card arrived in this week. who or where should I aim my annoyance? Galway co co? I know it will do no good, but it will make me feel better :D

You dont need a voting card, just bring ID, as long as you go to the correct polling station where you are listed you'll be grand. I dont know where you might check out what your polling station is though, sorry.
02/10/2009, 12:59 PM
Mr A

Possibly on a county council site? think I saw something about that...

Edit: http://www.checktheregister.ie/

Voting reported to be slow: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/.../breaking1.htm

Good news for the No side as their support is a lot more motivated.
02/10/2009, 1:15 PM
eamo1

Local.

According to local radio here in Galway turnout so far is above the national average of 11%.I'll vote this evening on my way to Terryland Pk:).
02/10/2009, 1:16 PM
Fr Damo

Quote:

Voting reported to be slow: [COLOR=#005600]http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/.../breaking1.htm[/COLOR]

Good news for the No side as their support is a lot more motivated.

And Possibly out of work and therefore more apathetic?? Yes side will probably be in during the afternoon.
02/10/2009, 1:31 PM
dahamsta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

Good news for the No side as their support is a lot more motivated.

I thought the opposite; that the No side will need big numbers to suceed.
02/10/2009, 1:45 PM
EAFC_rdfl

cheers lads, should have asked yesterday, wont be back home this evening so would have been going voting first thing on the way to work
couldnt get a suitable value for the 'townland/street' box on checktheregister, and its compulsory to fill it in, even though my surname should nearly be enough to search on!
02/10/2009, 2:13 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahamsta

I thought the opposite; that the No side will need big numbers to suceed.

No has been behind in the polls. A small turnout usually suits a side like that, I think. Of course, the specifics are everything.
02/10/2009, 2:35 PM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

Voting reported to be slow:

Good news for the No side as their support is a lot more motivated.

Voting is always slow during the workday. It does pick up in the evening. I haven't voted yet, but unless it was unavoidable, I would never vote in the morning.

The morning votes provide the photo ops for the politicians and campaigners, although why it happens beats me. Everyone is aware how they'll vote.
03/10/2009, 4:20 PM
eamo1

Finality.

Theres an awfull finality to today,like a death of a close relative etc.Ye just dont realise what ye've done and given up.Ye do now realise THATS IT,NO more referendums on ANYTHING,our own constitution now meaningless.The only people truly happy today are powerfull lobby groups and faceless beurecrats in the Euro parliment.My grandfather and great grandfather are turning in their graves today.:(:(.

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