Take it down from the mast :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
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Take it down from the mast :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
So you admit we are better fans than them!Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Of course we are! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Slovenia.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
What league do they predominantly follow? Italy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
That is so.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
I was in Slovenia to watch Linfield. We flew into Italy(Triest) and drove to Gorica. It was an hour or so drive.
Many Swedes do support their own teams along with premiership teams but attendances for the Swedish league is poor. And a lot of Swedes sneer at their own league. Basically because its dire.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
As opposed to the beautiful football you get from watching Liverpool V Chelsea? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Torn-Ado
Derry City and Cork City won't be knocking Chelsea or Liverpool out of Europe any time soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Maybe not but if asked to pay £50STG or (whatever extortianate price those teams are asking to watch them play) to see a game of hoofball or €15 to see two teams get it down and try to play football, I'll pay the €15 thank you very much. If I want to be bored at a game, well I'm a Bohs member and that only costs €330 per year. Teams like Chelsea and Liverpool serve up a rubbish brand of football, doesn't matter how good they are at being boring, they're still boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torn-Ado
I'm not about to defend Liverpool or Chelsea, I hate them both(although Liverpool is a true hatred, Chelsea is a fake hatred, once they start falling away to there level(around about spurs level) my hatred will go)Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
But with any big team in England(or Scotland) you get more than just a match. There is match day experience that not club on this island can provide, apart from big games.
The atmosphere is umpteen times better, the crowds are a different world & the general standard of play is better.
TV doesn't give the game justice and a lot of the crap matches on tv are far better actually in the ground. When you are caught up in the excitement and atmosphere.
My opinion anyway.
take a trip beyond windsor or united park sometime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
not having a dig here but the IL* may be on a par with League 2 but I would put the eL at closer to lower half of the chamionship (tier 2).Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
*yes, yes i know linfield are in the setanta final but sure joe gamble said that they molested football against ye so thats good enough for me ;)
So it's not 'basically because it's dire' then...Quote:
Originally Posted by Torn-Ado
I disagree with this. I go over to Goodison a couple of times a year and the atmosphere is generally better at whatever game I've been at the night before in Dalyer. In fact its only against the likes of Liverpool and Manure where you can say the atmosphere is any good. The crowds are bigger, but less involved in the game. Numbered seating has ruined the atmosphere at games. There was a time when the Goodison crowd was the proverbial twelfth man. Now there is hardly a peep out of 75% of the Glawdys St for the 90 minutes. Old Trafford too is as quiet as a morgue a lot of the time. The Beer is better in Dalyer than it is in any Premiership ground too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
Read the restQuote:
English teams are robbing game of skill, says Valdano
Sid Lowe in Madrid
Tuesday May 8, 2007
The Guardian
The former Real Madrid coach and World Cup winner Jorge Valdano has attacked Rafael Benítez and Jose Mourinho, insisting that they are ushering in a bleak future for football and likening the Champions League semi-final between Liverpool and Chelsea to "a **** hanging from a stick".
The Argentinian, who scored in the 1986 World Cup final and has a respected reputation as a football intellectual, claimed that Mourinho and Benítez mistrust talent because of their own failure to make it as players and said their approach is bad news for the game.
I'm not sure when you last had the whole 'match-day experience' in England Steve ? It's certainly not the case for any English stadiums I've been at this year (e.g. Newcastle, Sunderland, Fulham, Arsenal). The atmosphere at a decent City game would wipe the floor with them hands-down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
And what is 'match-day experience' other than a cliche anyway ?? Apart from a spot of merchandise shopping, eatting a dodgy burger, and savouring any (often non-existent) atmopshere before a game, what exactly is this 'wow' experience we're all meant to be in awe of at the ground of an English club ?? :confused:
My favourite bit of the match day experience on my trips to Goodison is a curry chip and a cheese and onion pie up county road followed by a pint in the black horse!
Forgot to add that I've brought a few Premiership regulars who live in England to EL games and they thought the atmosphere p1ssed all over the premiership "match day experience".
I haven't been over to Old Trafford for 12 years. So if the experiance had changed since then, well I cannot obviously comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
I'm sure games like Man U v Watford and Reading really set the Old Trafford fan's hearts racing as part of the elusive 'matchday experience'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
The foundations have only just stopped rocking, I understand...
:D
The IL would sit amongst the Conferance and non-leagues.Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayhoop
Linfield would sit amongst the LOI teams in League 2.
We are no where near Championship material. Maybe we can make two teams out of all the teams on this island that would play in the Championship and even then I think it would be a struggle. League 2 at best for this island.
When I last went the sell out attendance was around 48000 and there was a terrific atmosphere. We where playing Sheffield Wednesday.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
I would have imagined 76000 would have been near twice as good. But then football is more commercialised now than then.
You see - that's my point ! Your favourite part of the whole 'matchday experience' has catually got fcuk all to do with the club ! Arguably fcuk all to do with football even !Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
So what is there in the average elusive English "matchday experience" that you can't get at a decent ground and game over here ? Answer = nought. This whole 'matchday experience' notion is just a lazy cliche that people trot out without having a clue what they actually mean by it.
I'd have to concur as well. I've yet to take someone not involved in Irish football to a City match who doesn't become soem sort of a fan. Have fellas from London, Belfast, Edinburgh, Orkney and Drogheda following us now. :o)Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Those who stand amongst us get the bug.....
That was my point too!Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
the likes of southend, luton, qpr, barnsley and hull may, in your opinion, seem like giants to the club teams on this island but imo sides like derry, cork, rovers, drogheda and st pats would have absolutely nothing to fear from these teams and in fact be on a par with them. obviously the upper half of the championship would be a higher standard but the lower half (championship) and upper end of league 1 (at the very lowest) represent our peers accross the water.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
Or the EPL. Games are on national TV at 3 in the afternoon. I think they barstool more than anything. I don't think they're even bothered to head over the border. When Sebastjan Cimerotic, one of their top players at the time playing for Lecce in Serie B, was playing in Trieste a load people headed over to watch him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
I understand a lot of Serbs and Croats also barstool. Their clubs grounds are always majority empty like our own on TV. Red Star Belgrade's Marakana looks ridiculous when they're playing a non-European/non-derby tie, a bit like the away stand in Windsor Pk. for Setanta Cup games.
Interesting theory (failed player = petrified manager) from Valdano. No doubt the quotes are rehashed from interviews he gave to the Spanish press years ago slating Benítez's Valencia team ...Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Spot on. Billy there is trying to bring us down to IL level. Any premier team here would wipe the floor with League 2 ffs. Lower championship is about right.Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayhoop
KOH
so by that token would an irish domestic game with an attendance of 4,000 have about one twelfth the atmosphere???? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruce
the fact is that the bigger the stadium the more likely it is to have a 'diluted' atmosphere. smaller compact grounds are much better for an atmosphere. i have been to old trafford in the early 90's and again quite recently and i have to say when it was smaller (albeit 45 or 50 thousand capacity) it was a far better place from an atmosphere standpoint.
from talking to regular attending man utd fans they reckon that the atmosphere in old trafford has been pure sh1te for a good few years (although it has been relatively better this season due to winning back the premiership and a good champions league run). but look at any man utd home game and the stadium begins to clear with 10 mins to go and is nearly half empty at the final whistle. mostly because the plastic supporters just couldn't abide cueing on the way out!!!!!
PS - was that game you were at (v sheff wed) the one when man utd practically secured their first top flight championship after 27 odd years with 2 late, late steve bruce (?) goals???? if so i am sure it was a cracking atmosphere but more due to the game than anything else!
So he really was there :)Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayhoop
he must have just posted it so i would fall into his trap..... damn... caught again :mad: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
Yes it is. Many Swedes I have talked to said that their league is ****e. There was a time when team like IFK Gothenburg won European trophies but now the league doesn't even supply the international side with players.Quote:
Originally Posted by d f x-
No need to get offended at my statement.
What is your basis for this assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
This thread seems eternal! One thing I pick up several times is a resentment of those who 'pick' an English team to support rather than an EL team. But that is surely to rail against basic human nature and a free market. The Premier League is a major league, well marketed by Sky and others, the grounds are generally very good, the players of a high calibre because of the cash sloshing around...etc. etc. It's not surprising that some people from, say, Dublin choose to support Sunderland, any more than people from Surrey or Gothenburg may choose to support Man Utd. It's an open market, and travel is relatively easy. If they then change allegiance again later, well that's up to them too. Sunderland Football Club will not suddenly collapse if the (welcome) visitors from Ireland head off somewhere else in future - there are enough local fans to generate big crowds. It's their money to spend where they please, so it will simply be a case of 'thanks and good luck'. It's just human nature.
Human Nature blows
So what species are we?Quote:
Originally Posted by stampp
:confused:
In my view the main 'match day experience' would relate to the buzz in the environs of the stadium in the hours preceding the game. I've only been to eL games in Belfield, which at the best of times can be reminiscent of Moscow suburbs in the 70s, so I'll admit to being largely ignorant of the general buzz that may accompany the build up to a football match here. However having been to plenty of GAA matches over the years the likes of Killarney, Thurles and north of O'Connell Bridge in Dublin provide fantastic examples of an ebullient 'match day experience' before one gets to the ground. Its very much a big day out for tens of thousands of people. I would have thought the Premiership might be much the same, but obviously not? I appreciate you can only drink outside one pub and all that but I would have thought the buzz generated by tens of thousands versus the buzz generated by thousands would be different and would kinda take over the place a bit more.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Do team coaches get stoned in Sunderland by people who aren't fans and weren't at the game? Betcha don't get that buzz in the pub.
Numbers doesn't necessarily translate into buzz.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdom hoop
But it's not human nature, and 2 facts prove that.Quote:
Originally Posted by stampp
Firstly - it may be human nature to gravitate towards a big football club. But it is most certainly not human nature to do so to a club inn a foreign country, or to be disdainful of your home teams when doing so. Only really in Ireland amongst Europeans does this happen to such an extent. So it's not human nature, it's the Irish psyche.
Secondly - if human nature enforces the principle of selecting teams on the basis of their skill, ability and glamour, then why does this not also hold for international teams ? Becasue whilst the Irish are happy to ignore the type of pull that local, or even just indigenous, club teams have for pretty much the rest of Europe, they do the complete opposite for international teams.
So what you are claiming is 'human nature' is clearly not so. Rather - it's largely an Irish condition (and particularly in the extent to which it happens).