Ok thanks lads for updates, esp pineapple, overall picture is a lot clearer now.
Also that premiership word is very annoying.
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Ok thanks lads for updates, esp pineapple, overall picture is a lot clearer now.
Also that premiership word is very annoying.
That would be interesting to see Stu.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
BTW, where did the attendance figures for the clubs come from?
the clubs fax their attendances onto the fai after every game, they just dont release them to the public, as scotland/england do.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmac
probably re-raising a thorny issue here so, but why did Genesis lift their figures off here instead of getting them from the FAI. Although, given that the person responsible for compiling attendances at the FAI Cup final said that the FAI overstated the figures in Landsdowne by 20%, how accurate are they?Quote:
Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis
Look them up yourself, the Mirror and the red tops at the time of the matches called them promotion/relegation playoffs, RTE Radio also reported them as such, jesus do you want me to hold your hand around the Internet to find them?Quote:
Originally Posted by exiled_gufc_fan
im not saying the fai/all clubs are accurate with their attendances, but thats how its/should be done. how many clubs in ireland count their attendances properly? for one, i know galway do. im sure cork/pats/bohs/derry prob do too.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmac
This is taken from dundalk talk on oriel web.
list of LEAGUE (proper) titles from the new 12
correct where any errors made in the top 5. other than that, its a pure and simple list of wannabes.
Rovers 18
Shels 10 or 11
Bohs 7 or 8
pats 5
Derry 2 or 3
cork (city) 2
sligo 1
ucd 0
galway 0
longford 0
drogs 0
bray 0
A LEAGUE OF BULLSHXXTERS
Sums the whole thing up perfectly.
what has this history lesson got to do with anything?
Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
Pretty pointless post.What are you saying like?
That the league should have been made up only of those who've won league titles?
History and tradition are a great thing to have but it's in the future and present where other clubs like GUFC and Drogheda thrive to make their own history.
good point conor.. what have the last 4 years got 2 do with present and future?
I can not see why Waterford and Dundalk are complaining, they both knew and agreed to new structure next season and then come out saying why us, what did we do, I can understand their frustration about the play-off.
Both entered to be in the League of Ireland, whenever they joined in the past and should know the the League of Ireland run the show and can do what they want, that is what they accpeted to when they joined the League of Ireland many years ago.
Ok then, how about these points. Sound like a clearer and fairer observation from clubs who missed out or pehaps a general view of the new lge from the public and media.
1/ 6 Teams from Dublin, is a totally unbalanced spread for the country. This accounts for 50% of the teams in an are making up 30% of the country in population terms.
2/ The whole criteria was a shambles from start to finish. Having a 4 year limit was only going to suit the 'johnny come latelys' moderate clubs with poor support and very little to offer long term. Dundalk and Waterford with 15 lge titles between, both with very strong fan bases and excellent geographical locations have been punished for their only crime of recent poor performances.
3/ Clubs had no other option but to sign up for this.
4/ In no particular order, Bray, Longford, and UCD offer nothing but an easy location to Dublin, the first two only in senior football 20 years the latter since 1979, together their sum achievements is 5 FAI Cups. Add in Galway, Drogheda + Sligo and the net dividend is ONE single lge title between all 6. Premier Divsion indeed.
5/ The licensing system was totally flawed and twisted to suit certain clubs, for example both Kilkenny City and Monaghan EACH have almost 3 times the amount of seating than one Premier Club, Drogheda Utd. Shamrock Rovers have still not been punished extreme lighlty for financial irregularities during 2005. Further this club still cannot commit to a date when their ground will be ready and are at the mercy of whatever other Dublin club will offer them accommodation on a season per season. Compare this to Limerick been refused a FIRST DIV licence.
6/ A 10 team lge was tried and failed some seasons back and will not work again in 2008.
7/ John Delaney is not the man to bring this alleged new era forward. His appalling appointment of the irish senior manager and failure to have any other candidate lined up proves his shocking knowledge of the game.
8/ The scandal that was the play off was a pure waste of everyone's time and money.
9/ The fan base of too many clubs in the 12 team lge is too poor to have a quality product. UCD and Bray regularly get crowds under 1,000 and Longford have seen a sharp decline in theirs, also their recent average has dropped to below the 1,000 mark.
10/ In the UK clubs who go into administration start the season with an automatic 12 pt deduction, here a similar type of situation is bubbly away with the current champions Shelbourne and last years Cork both have winding up orders applied to them by Revenue, again nothing is done to punish them nor set a standard for future cases.
My point is both Dundalk and Waterford have twice or 3 times the potential that clubs like UCD,Bray, Longford and as much as clubs like Galway, Sligo, + Drogheda.Quote:
Originally Posted by bholg
No provision was made for that in the criteria.
'suburbs' - and its bigger than galway but that still makes it the 5th biggest city in Ireland; it goes Dublin, Belfast, Cork, Derry, Limerick, Galway....Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddyfield
on another point; will Dundalk be entitled to Shelbourne's place when they go belly up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofstan
Hadn't realised that Northern Ireland had been abolished and we'd absorbed Belfast and Derry into our Central Statistics analysis. Either way that biggest city in the Republic debate is pointless, outside of Dublin the Republic has no proper cities, the rest of us are just small towns with big suburbs
You'll say I'm only bringing this up because of my 'hatred' for Galway United, but there was quite a few of us from Limerick and other clubs we talked to this year that used to have a laugh at Galway boosting their 'official attendences'. Seem to recall the Limerick fans being told on here that there was something like 700 in attendence for our first visit when Limerick fans counted roughly 300-350Quote:
Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis
If you look at his original quote, he says "Ireland" - I'm less of a republican that Nigel Dodds, but, Ireland is the whole Island as far as I'm concernedQuote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Premier Division means the best teams in the country. What happened years ago has nothing to do with how good you are now.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
How does winning stuff years ago equate to having more potential? It counts for nothing in the long term.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
Link to all the complaining Waterford fans please.. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoss
point taken and noted :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofstan
on here is not the official attendance, apart from the odd occasion where it was annonced over the PA in terryland, towards the end of the season. attendances are counted correctly in galway and i know that for a fact. how about limerick? do they count their attendances? and if so how do they do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Find someone with 2 hands? so they can go up to 11?Quote:
Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis
Most Galway attendances on here were touted as official. Even Galways fans questioned their accuracy, saying there were up to several hundred more at games on occasions.Quote:
Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis
If your potential is that much more than us, I'm sure you'll be overtaking us soon enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
I've said all along that the process was rubbish and that Dundalk were screwed*, but you're gaining no sympathy from this rant of yours.
* - yes, they knew what was happening, but the process was still seriously flawed.
Stu the Galway attendaces given are/have been correct.
Jebus there was 750 at the 1st game in Terryland.350 is laughable but understandable coming from a sore and envious bunch like yereselves.
No, next in line points wise are WaterfordQuote:
Originally Posted by sonofstan
http://www.thepost.ie/breakingnews/b...xxz&n=87384080
Waterford United say they will be seeking clarification of the methodology used in assessing the clubs due to make up the new FAI National League Premier Division.
Waterford lost out on a place in the top flight under the selection process conducted by the FAI's Independent Assessment Group.
The club says it was shocked at being ranked so low in the off-field criteria, despite working to assemble the documentation and evidence needed to support its case for inclusion.
not complaining anymore, honest... yesterday's mind boggling display a fine example what can happen if one was to be an el or Ireland follower without a good sense of the absurd..
however.. reading the last page or two..
would it not be rational to say that when setting these criteria, the fai would have already had good knowledge of the clubs - certainly about results, attendences but also a decent knowledge of all relevant details about personell and management structures. Ergo knowing exactly who would be down and up, this would imply that the IAG is only a sort of front to give a veneer of impartiality, presiding over a foregone conclusion??.
who set the scoring allowances/criteria?? fai or themselves. were they threre to attempt to measure a set of given parameters for the fai, or to decide themselves what makes a decent football club and set their own agenda... this may already have been discussed, if so, sorry... im in the dark though.
i think i read dundalk are doing the same as waterford with the request...
cheers.. point 6, if true, an interesting one.... suggests the club should have piped up earlier...
"6: At every stage in the process all clubs, including Dundalk, had the opportunity to suggest changes if they were not happy with the criteria being proposed and some clubs did so. In the end all the clubs that were assessed by the Independent Assessment Group had voted for the merger with the Football Association of Ireland and thus accepted the process that would ultimately decide the make-up of the Premier Division for 2007. "
oh well...
An appeal by either club would be pointless and costly.I'd say they'll avoid it for their own sake tbh.
Does anyone else think that's a little bit petty? They could have made all the same points without mentioning Dundalk by name.Quote:
Originally Posted by harpskid
Lads - I`ll come clean - complete wind up my ten point rant
Of course the decision was the correct one based on last 4 years.
What a time to have our worst ever seasons.
Anyway good luck (again) to all 12, but no hidden agenda this time. Fair play and all that.
ps just watched maxi on u tube - total and utter cringo stuff.
Right so. Here's what I have in relation to the points structure. All the clubs got this, so would at least have known what they were up against. I imagine those involved in their clubs could probably get hold of the same stuff. A fair bit of waffle, but anyways... This is also just a summary of what I got rather than the actual document itself, so unfortunately I probably won't be in a position to answer any questions as what's here is what I know... And I'm sure there's an error or two in there somewhere.
A disclaimer which would do the FAI proud. :)
Infrastructure - 100
Long-term plans (leases, ground ownership, stability, etc) - 0-60.
Capacity - 10pts for over 3000, 5 pts for under 3000 [presume that's as certified by Licencing]
Stadium cert - 30/20/10-19 depending on no issues/minor issues/other issues. Not 100% sure this is exactly; assume others'll know more.
Governance, etc - 50
Management structure basically. 0-50 marks depending on how much you impressed the IAG. So thinkgs like your entire board walking out mid-season (Shels) would probably score low, while having assigned job titles to different people would probably score high.
Finance - 100
10 for meeting licencing requirements (which is stuff like you won't go broke unless you can produce a budget which balances; easy enough taht Dublin City passed back at the start of the season)
10 for controls/structure/more waffle
20 for providing audited accounts
10 for no outstanding payments. The last time I was talking to the FAI, they said that outstanding payments meant outstanding at the year end...and not agreed to in writing by the party in question...and then outstanding for another year...
50 for financial controls. Not sure how this differs to the 10 above. Mainly to do with having a history of not going broke, reconciling official gates to takings and generally knowing how much money you have.
Strategic planning - 70
How great you're going to be in five years. 0-70 points.
Licencing - 30
10 points for each year you got a licence. Don't know where it stands on appeals (i.e. everyone got a licence every year, but no-one bar Derry got a licence in the first year on the first go).
Youth development - 50
Previous performance - out of 20
2007 plans - out of 10
Future plans - out of 20
Attendances - 30
As noted elsewhere. 30 for the biggest crowds in the league; 1 poin less for every 150 under that you are.
Weighted attendances - 30
Again, as noted elsewhere. Multiply crowds according to where you finished in the league as follows -
Top half of the Premier - x 1
Bottom half of the Premier - x 1½
Top half of the First - x 2
Bottom half of the First - x 2½
And apply the same formula as above. Basically to acknowledge clubs ahose attendances drop because they're having a bad year.
Marketing - 40
Plans.
No real ideas more than that, but a lot of it did basically amount to a beauty contest. I know at one stage the club were asking me for any photos of the League Cup Final last year to show a packed Belfield Park to impress the IAG more.
So complete and utter nonsense really, but there is some sort of structure to it.
Pineapple, you said you know UCD's exact scores, can you post them?
Never said that...?
We scored 374 overall, that's all I know.
Could have sworn you did, maybe I'm thinking of something you said before the score was released.:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
no chance of ever getting a licence then, The GUFC gate is the best gate process in the country, believe me , they even let the fans audit it from time to time so your barking up the wrong tree there. Also why dont you shut up and do something for Limerick football and stop cringing about others
That's not what you've been saying all season. It's been "Yeah, they were official, but there were an extra 700 people here and an extra 500 there", and people telling me to ignore the official crowds and put in the inflated figure instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor H
Sorry i mis-interpreted i thought you were saying we were giving the worng info.Am totlaly confused at what i said now.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Apologies.
I'd have thought so for a massive 'Premier' club as well, but there you have itQuote:
Originally Posted by Conor H