Advice on the Laws of the Game

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Originally Posted by redcardrory

:confused:referee09 if a player attacking his oppoent goals takes a shot and it deflects off the referee and it ends up in the back of the net does it still stands as a goal or a hop ball from where the ref was standing(bear in mind this happend in a match last week in the 92 min of a cup match with the teams level at one all)

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Hi redcardrory. The referee is part of the game and the field of play and while the team that have conceded the goal will be a little annoyed, the correct decision is to allow the goal.............

In relation to the handball question. There was a shout for a penalty in the Birmingham V Everton game yesterday. For me it's very like the scenario described above. Have a look guys, you'll get it online. What do ye think??

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Originally Posted by Referee09

I told you this one would split decisions. Some will give it some won't. Your view is very "black and white" Subprime. Now as I said I'd like to see this incident but from the original post by BigFeetBigSocks, nowwhere does he say the player brought his hand to the ball. If a player brings his hands up to protect himself from a ball struck from close range, he is NOT controlling the ball with his arms. He is protecting his face with a natural reaction. But as I said if his hands/arms are outstretched in an unnatural position away or above his body, making himself bigger to block the ball then it would be an offence. Really we would need to see it to be 100 percent sure! But from Bigfeets original post, for me it's play-on...............

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Ref, "If a player brings his hands up to protect himself from a ball struck from close range, he is NOT controlling the ball with his arms. He is protecting his face with a natural reaction" I seriously beg to differ and would point out that you have stated the obvious in that a player "brings his hands" is bringing your hands in the direction of the ball!!!! You are also controlling the ball in that you are preventing it from hitting your face, or your vital parts when standing 10 yards from a free kick!!!!!! You are deliberatley using your hands to revent an action from occouring!!! I suppose you got the ball in off the ref right so you can't be too bad, lol. I guess this also points out why we say referees are inconsistent!

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Originally Posted by Subprime

Ref, "If a player brings his hands up to protect himself from a ball struck from close range, he is NOT controlling the ball with his arms. He is protecting his face with a natural reaction" I seriously beg to differ and would point out that you have stated the obvious in that a player "brings his hands" is bringing your hands in the direction of the ball!!!! You are also controlling the ball in that you are preventing it from hitting your face, or your vital parts when standing 10 yards from a free kick!!!!!! You are deliberatley using your hands to revent an action from occouring!!! I suppose you got the ball in off the ref right so you can't be too bad, lol. I guess this also points out why we say referees are inconsistent!

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Subprime, I don't think you fully understand the offence of "handball". Finally and simply, if the player doesn't deliberately touch the ball with his hand, it's not handball. What you have poorly tried to describe above again, is not handball. Blocking your face with your hands is not hand to ball!!! End of the handball discussion for now. As for your last sentence, I'm assuming your referring to a different question asked earlier. Open your mind a little and you never know what you might learn.......................:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Referee09

Subprime, I don't think you fully understand the offence of "handball". Finally and simply, if the player doesn't deliberately touch the ball with his hand, it's not handball. What you have poorly tried to describe above again, is not handball. Blocking your face with your hands is not hand to ball!!! End of the handball discussion for now. As for your last sentence, I'm assuming your referring to a different question asked earlier. Open your mind a little and you never know what you might learn.......................:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Referee09

As The Ref states, it must be deemed to be deliberate handball. This one will split many refs however. For me you need to look at several things, the distance of the defender from the ball when it is struck, the pace of the ball, are the arms in an "unnatural position" i.e. is the defender trying to make himself bigger in an effort to block the ball. From what you described, I'm reading as this... the defender is only a few yards away and the ball is volleyed by the attacker so naturally the defender protects his face with his arms/hands. His arms aren't outstretched to the sides or above his head to make himself bigger and he is too close to avoid being hit. For me .......................play on, no offence. But I'd like to have seen it to be 100%. Far to many refs give free kicks and penalty kicks for handball incidents when it's obvious that there was no deliberate intent to handle the ball. Hope this helps rather than confuse!!

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Originally Posted by The Ref

For a free kick or penalty to be awarded, the handball must be deliberate. The fact that the player moves his hand to protect his face would seem to me a deliberate action albeit to protect himself. Therefore in the example above I would give a free kick (or penalty if it occurred in the defenders penalty area)

The Ref

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Why the arrogant response to the last post Referee9 he was only stating an opinion and the responses from two different referees just verified his opinion that there is inconsistences in this matter.

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Originally Posted by BigfeetBigsocks

Why the arrogant response to the last post Referee9 he was only stating an opinion and the responses from two different referees just verified his opinion that there is inconsistences in this matter.

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Please don't mistake something said in Jest (hence the rolled eyes smiley face) for arrogance. And as I said earlier, handball decisions split opinions everywhere.......For me, and this is my opinion only, but referees at junior level blow to many frees/penatlies for handball offences............

On the handball debate, we had this exact situation at Limerick v Derry recently, player in the box put in a cross at some pace and the Derry defender who was quite close raised his hand in front of his face just as he was about to get a mouthful of leather. There was no penalty, the ball went out for a corner (which it most likely would have done if it came off his face anyway).

I was well placed to see the incident, just behind the goal. For me this was the correct decision, a couple of important points, his hand went to his face, not to the ball, anyone could see it was a natural split-second reaction, and the intent was not to control the ball (which he didnt) but to protect his face.

I know some referees would give a penalty in this instance but there are a lot of refs who are very officious without much understanding, whereas there are other refs who have a better sense of the purpose of the rules and correct interpretation, and are better able to read a players actions and intent, hence you will always get inconsistencies.

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Originally Posted by Archangel

With a lot of cup action on now ref09 what happens if a player takes 2 penalties before all other teamates have taken one, in a shootout and ref only spots it when its over. Is it, take the penalties again or leave it and let the league sort it out ie. replay? Would you yellow card the player who took it twice?

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Ok.........Fistly as we're talking about Junior level football, I would have hoped that the referee informed both teams of the procedure for the penalty kicks before he bagan. Again the referee should be taking down the number of each player that comes up to take a penalty kick to avoid this situation. Now I'm assuming that the player hasn't changed jersey between his two kicks in an effort to deceive the referee and that his team have won the shootout. So the referee has made a mistake, and now the match has ended. It's not within the referees remit to do the penalties again and would only caution the player if he believes the player deliberately deceived him. So therefore IMO he would report the incident in detail to the League and let them decide on what action is to be taken.

Quick question...Can a junior team be forced to play two matches midweek i.e. tuesday and then thursday??

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Originally Posted by shannonman

Quick question...Can a junior team be forced to play two matches midweek i.e. tuesday and then thursday??

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In Cork at the moment we have some clubs who've had the following fixture list:
Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday - 7 games in 14 days!!!

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Originally Posted by redcardrory

bad news for you shannon man a junior team can be forced to play two matches midweek but if ye go up to jackman and argue your case about players missing due to work etc ye can get one called off

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Well if recent time are anything to go by then we wont get anything called off...more likely to get one on on the wednesday too

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Originally Posted by shannonman

Well if recent time are anything to go by then we wont get anything called off...more likely to get one on on the wednesday too

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Guys none of this has anything to do with the Laws of the Game. It's a League issue, so can we please keep this thread for questions relating to the LotG.

hi ref can u clear this simple rule up , defender takes a throw in and throws ball back to his goalie in his 18 yard box , goalie picks ball up, ref gives an indirect free kick, but does not give a caution was this the correct decition?

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Originally Posted by gaffers gaffer

hi ref can u clear this simple rule up , defender takes a throw in and throws ball back to his goalie in his 18 yard box , goalie picks ball up, ref gives an indirect free kick, but does not give a caution was this the correct decition?

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An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area, commits any of the following four offences:
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• touches the ball with his hands after he has received it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate

So the indirect free kick is the correct decision.

A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

• unsporting behaviour
• dissent by word or action
• persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game
• delaying the restart of play
• failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick, free kick or throw-in
• entering or re-entering the fi eld of play without the referee’s permission
• deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission

As the picking up of a throw in would not normally fall under any of these offences, it would appear that the referee was correct in not cautioning the goalkeeper.

Hope this helps.

The Ref

"remember a conversation 2 years ago. now its going to come back and bite u in the a--e" this is wat a ref said to a manager just before 2 dubious goals went in and subsequently a team being relegated..................................... i understand referees put up with a lot but surely this is wrong, if a player said something similar he would be fined or suspended and the only people to suffer here were honest young players over a ref holding a grudge


just lookin for any opinions on this

For The Referee

We had a game recently where a no of times that when a player had to pass the ball bck to opposition keeper in a hop ball situation the referee done it himself and the game restarted with the goalkeeper kicking the ball out of his hands,its something i never seen before was he right, also on one ocasion we had the balin our posession when he stopped play for an injury to one of the opposition, when the game resumed he told our player to kick the ball back to the opposition keeper. These had no bearing on the result as we on the match.

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Originally Posted by Round Tower

For The Referee

We had a game recently where a no of times that when a player had to pass the ball bck to opposition keeper in a hop ball situation the referee done it himself and the game restarted with the goalkeeper kicking the ball out of his hands,its something i never seen before was he right, also on one ocasion we had the balin our posession when he stopped play for an injury to one of the opposition, when the game resumed he told our player to kick the ball back to the opposition keeper. These had no bearing on the result as we on the match.

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In a drop ball situation, if a player passes the ball back to his opponents goalkeeper, the goalkeeper is entitled to pick the ball up if he is in his own penalty area and kick it out of his hands.

If there is a situation where the two teams wish to contest the drop ball, the referee must allow for the drop ball to be contested, he may suggest that one player pass the ball to his opponent but cannot insist. If the player refuses, he must permit the drop ball to be contested.

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Originally Posted by The Ref

In a drop ball situation, if a player passes the ball back to his opponents goalkeeper, the goalkeeper is entitled to pick the ball up if he is in his own penalty area and kick it out of his hands.

If there is a situation where the two teams wish to contest the drop ball, the referee must allow for the drop ball to be contested, he may suggest that one player pass the ball to his opponent but cannot insist. If the player refuses, he must permit the drop ball to be contested.

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Have u ever heard where the Ref insisted he passed the ball back to the keeper himself and on the secound case he insisted we passed the ball back to their keeper when we were in pocession of the ball when he stopped the play. the referee was wrong in both cases was he not.

Hi ref, Always like your input. Last nights red card in the champions league semi - What do you think?

Me I'd struggle to see a card of any colour, yes he had his hands out and up but so do most players, Busquets ran into him , there was no swinging arm, see a lot of occasions where it wouldn't even be a foul. Definitely the players reaction was a disgrace, unless Motta had a sledge hammer hidden up his sleeve???
If the referee was being consistent he could have given Eto a straight red not long after when he did a similar offence near the sideline on Messi - again I thought it was barely a foul

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Originally Posted by Innishvilla

Hi ref, Always like your input. Last nights red card in the champions league semi - What do you think?

Me I'd struggle to see a card of any colour, yes he had his hands out and up but so do most players, Busquets ran into him , there was no swinging arm, see a lot of occasions where it wouldn't even be a foul. Definitely the players reaction was a disgrace, unless Motta had a sledge hammer hidden up his sleeve???
If the referee was being consistent he could have given Eto a straight red not long after when he did a similar offence near the sideline on Messi - again I thought it was barely a foul

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When I saw it first, I thought Red card, but when I saw the replay and slow motion, my opinion changed to caution. Busquets made a meal of it but Motto should never have raised his hand and in doing so, gave Busquets the opportunity to go down and force the referee make a decision. It must be remembered that the referee saw it once and in real time and while pundits disect every decision on TV afterwards, the have the advantage of slow motion, freeze frame etc.

As for the Eto incident, I missed that.

Not so much lotg help I'm looking for but I was wondering if you could enlighten me because the FAI are no help.

Right so I did my beginners course last September and received a license valid until this December. What happens then? Do I have to do another course? The license is at "introductory level". How many levels are there and how do you move up? Also, how important are those reffing modules? - I missed one recently.

Any help appreciated.

Ref.... whats the ruling on penalty kicks has ball to be placed on spot.. at a game recently and player complained penalty spot was in a hole and tried to move ball to side of penalty spot.. ref warned him he would be booked if he did not take kick with ball on penalty spot... i always thought you could move ball sideways or behind spot :confused:

Hey Old Git, apparently it does not matter the condition of the penalty spot. Even if the hole is full of water that is where the penalty is taken from. If the penalty spot is not marked out, then the ref will usually use common sense (in most cases) and pick his own spot.

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Originally Posted by Subprime

Hey Old Git, apparently it does not matter the condition of the penalty spot. Even if the hole is full of water that is where the penalty is taken from. If the penalty spot is not marked out, then the ref will usually use common sense (in most cases) and pick his own spot.

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thanks subprime ... but would common sense from ref not apply to state of penalty spot also ,,,:ball:

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Originally Posted by Subprime

Hey Old Git, apparently it does not matter the condition of the penalty spot. Even if the hole is full of water that is where the penalty is taken from. If the penalty spot is not marked out, then the ref will usually use common sense (in most cases) and pick his own spot.

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thanks subprime ... but would common sense from ref not apply to state /condition of penalty spot also ,,,:ball:

Hi old git, apparently law 18 in theory does not cover it, but refs are always split on everything and just depends on the ref on the day, that's why we rarely mark out the penalty spot.

Penalty shoot-out
Our U19 girls team reached the plate final in the San Marino tournement but lost on penalties. One of our girl's penalty in the shoot out, the keeper saved it on the line but the power of the shot the ball went over the line and the linesman flagged that the ball was over the line but the referee deemed that the penalty was saved and we lost the penalty shoot out. The referee told our manager after the game that was the law.

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Originally Posted by Round Tower

Penalty shoot-out
Our U19 girls team reached the plate final in the San Marino tournement but lost on penalties. One of our girl's penalty in the shoot out, the keeper saved it on the line but the power of the shot the ball went over the line and the linesman flagged that the ball was over the line but the referee deemed that the penalty was saved and we lost the penalty shoot out. The referee told our manager after the game that was the law.

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Ref was wrong.

This a good one for the REF,luckily enough for the ref it did not affevt the resault. Our opposition scored a goal at start secound half but there was a hole in the net,the ref did not signal the goal so we took a kick out and went up and scored. The opposition complained about their goal that was not given, the ref inquired off our keeper about the goal was it or not. He then gave their goal and disalowed ours, it did not matter in the end as we won 8-1 final score including the controversial goal.

This one is simple enough...............The Referee was wrong. From the outset he should of checked the nets at the beginning of the game and before the start of the second half to ensure that they were ok. Regarding the goal, at least he had the courage to change his decision but unfortunately as play had restarted with a goal kick after the ball went through the net, then technically he cannot alter his decision. Luckily as you say, the result was not affected..............

The Argentina goal v Ireland, you can not be offside from a goal-kick, I never knew that. Surely, a goal-kick is a re-start of the game like a free kick is. If that is the case, why don't teams just push players as high up as possible to the opposition goal and boot the ball up the them. I think it is an odd rule, what is the reason for this ?

And I suppose you knew you couldn't be offside from a throw in....it's the exact same thing anything that involves a restart when the ball has crossed the endlines or sidelines I.e throw in corner kick and goal kick you cannot be offside from. :-)

And u can't be offside from a corner kick either. You are right, why don't teams push up when a goal kick is being taken? They'll stand at the half way because defenders have pushed out and players think they will be offside!!!!!!!

hi ref,
quick question for you.we played a match today where the referee refused to toss a coin at the start to see who would have choice of ends and gave the home team the advantage of playing down the hill with the wind,any thoughts on this?

Was it a friendly you were playing? Did ref just get the game going? We had that in one of our friendlies lately, ref just said stay as you are and other team kick off and no one complained about it. If that is the only complaint you have about him you're lucky.

no it was a league match.and as i said there is a significant hill which we wanted to play down as well.the ref refused to toss the coin and said that was his decision and to get on with it.and unfortunatly its not the only complaint we have but i dont want to have a big rant about his overall performance just the basic right to a coin toss and be treated equally and impartially

"A coin is tossed and the team that wins the toss decides which goal it will
attack in the first half of the match." Basic rule of the game, too bad you got a ref that does not read the rules and implement them as he is required to do. Write a letter to his assessor and ask the question and name the ref - "you were just wondering blah blah:o"

for the referee
well ref any thoughts about my previous enquiry on the coin toss which my team encountered?

Hi Ref,

Just wondering is there any system in place throughout the junior leagues whereby they assess the competence of a given referee to enforce the rules of the game correctly and to ensure the safety of all players on the pitch?

Thanks.

they have assessors you can write to but don't forget that under the laws of the game

A referee (or where applicable, an assistant referee or fourth offi cial) is not held
liable for:
any kind of injury suffered by a player, official or spectator