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Thankfully the Eircom League/FAI is (somewhat) of a democracy so this issue won`t be decided by four UCD fans dissecting internet posts for fun.
It might seem unfair, but its not the UN Security Council, nobody gets a veto.
I think we all know the FAI will dangle enough carrots in front of clubs to swing the vote by a whisker.
I don't agree there either, I recon the vote will probably pass comfortably enough. If nothing else, the FAI are good at playing politics, they wouldn't propose the vote if it wasn't going to pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
It should be noted though that one of the proposals is to end the democratic nature of the league. The FAI will have executive power from here on in.
Leave Deportivo out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
Home Farm rent grounds almost on month to month basis. Theres no problem renting a ground if have long term lease like most clubs.
I have read it and don't see how its going to improve the situation. Starting point for this is that EL clubs lost 3m or so. Does anyone think after reading this proposal that the FAI have shown us how we will bridge that gap?
Some ideas are good undobtedly, but I wouldnt agree to it because the prize fund for winners is now 225000 - only one club can get that each year.
Bottom line is that this will automatically increase clubs expenditure
1. You must have two senior teams and an u20 team and your underage sides.
2. It will cost 7k more to be in the league
3. Promotions officer will costs the clubs a minimum of 30k
All the extra income is in prizemoney (except for the 10k promotions).
If you take the 65% of turnover, and you must increase your squad from 20 to 30 to have 2 adult teams with coaching staff etc. Say your club turnover is 1m, that gives 650000 for wages and taxes, or basically 12k a week. Based on 30 people thats 400 gross average. Or 20000 a year (considering that top players ear well over 100k) are we talking about slashing everyones wages in the league?
If you are a wealthy club (relative to others I mean) and you are at 2m in current expenditure they will be expected to invest 700k in non team expenses. Corks, Shels and Drogs could end up spending more on non wage expenses than it takes to run over half the clubs!
- ten team prem is too small - the over familiarity definitely bred contempt last time - reflected in a a general decline in attendances - the same teams, same games over and over - sometimes in close proximity to previous fixtures or cup meetings switched off even diehards - and the games themselves had a staleness about them - big mistake
- the 65% of turnover on wages seems to be unenforceable in practice
- the name changes are ludicrous - why don't we call it the Seria A1 or Lá Liga?
- UCD and Dublin City are in the Prem on merit - clubs in the first division bring nothing to a new league format that these two teams do not have and should not be allowed leap frog them just because they have 50 or 60 more supporters at games. The very fact that they have been bypassed by two clubs operating on meagre resources and poor support tells you all you need to know about the so called "potential" of these so called "bigger" clubs currently deservedly languishing in the second tier. Let them come up on merit and stay up the hard way - surely the acid test of whether they are truly viable footballing entities - all the evidence suggests they are not and rewarding their incompetence with wishey washey criteria for promotion is encouraging yet more mediocrity not "progressing the league"
A nominee for POTMQuote:
Originally Posted by wws
Oh, I'm shocked. You didn't even read what we had to say, did you? It's just UCD whining, so it can't have any merit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
We've repeatedly asked a simple question: how does the cherry picking of teams help the league? I haven't read an answer to my satisfaction. I, and as far as I can tell, all of the other UCD fans who've contributed to this debate, have no objection to wage capping, infrastructural development or any of a whole raft of sensible suggestions here. Though frankly, the following, which I wasn't aware of, gives me substantial cause for concern:
Much like I voted no in the citizenship referendum because I don't believe that the Dáil should have the power to redefine citizenship through legislation, I would oppose the proposal on that one point alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
Other fans have other concerns:
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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
A mere 10,000 from here. Figures from one-off matches mean squat. Most of that 24,000 weren't Shels fans. The number of LoI fans who payed in to support the league is staggering. I doubt you would see that sort of good will in England. Throw in a bunch of non LoI fans who wanted to see Deportivo too. That figure has no meaning at all. It'll be a cold day in hell before anyone in this league gets 10,000 to a league game, much less 24,000.Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
OK, I'll bite - Ask the financial types at any club, particularly Dublin clubs, and they'll tell you the difference Rovers make to the Premier as against UCD or Dublin City.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Couple of examples - there were more in attendance at the Dublin City v Rovers 2nd Leg play-off than had paid in to see Dublin City all season. 300 Rovers in Castlebar on Sunday, 700 in Monaghan, 800 in Kildare. Should I go on or merely point out that UCD and Dublin City would have to play each other nearly 10 times to reach the numbers we brought to Kildare for example.
Wishful thinking by fans of smaller clubs won't have any effect on the new set-up and the King Canute-like bleatings on this thread won't change a thing.
KOH
I'm sure Sligo would love a Premier Division consisting of Harps, Derry and Galway. I'm sure Cork would love Limerick and Waterford. Longford might want Athlone there. It's not the divine right of Dublin clubs to have their biggest local rivals there to boost their attendances nor is it the right of any other clubs. You could sit down and work out the 10 clubs who will yield the optimal average attendance figures and form your league if you like. Is that what you're interested in football for? Maybe it is, and if that's the case I just won't be seeing eye to eye with anyone who thinks along those lines. Myself, I prefer fair competition based on what happens on the pitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
Unfortunately it was Depor who attracted this lot and many of them were never to be seen again...............Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
UCD fans are loudest in their objections because they are the established club who are most obviously at risk of being arbitrarily demoted. Other clubs like Sligo and Limerick are also in danger of missing out on a rightful place in the Premier Division (I don't want to dignify the name the FAI have come up with by using it - it's a clear sign of the amount of genuine thought they have put into these plans).Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverstillidie
My main problem is with the people responsible for implementing this decision. Given the history, I can't see the FAI (and Niall Quinn) doing a better job of picking who gets to play in the top division than basing it on who are the best clubs at playing football.
Not to mention the ridiculous criteria - full of things like giving equal weight to progressing from the 1st to the 2nd round of the league cup as to finishing 1st or 2nd in the Premier. Already the indications are that the FAI have done their sums wrong and made many mistakes in the preliminary results presented to clubs.
We've also seen the typical FAI spin that the media eagerly lap up and repeat as fact without checking - "Steve Staunton was Walsall Assistant Manager"/"50% will be based on league performance".
Some of us are also fed up with the continuous "We have to give it a try, sure what harm can it do" mentality -
16-team league
12-team league
4 points for a win
Top 6/Bottom 6
10-team league
Summer Soccer
12-team league
Prim-Eire League
10-team league, etc.
Despite what some have said, it's not backwards thinking to say hang on a minute before rushing headlong into some new untested, unwanted format. There seems to be an idea out there that the Irish public are just dying to rush down to their local ground - "A standard league-based competition with promotion/relegation based on merit? No, that's not for me, if only they had a new and exciting format!".
Things that would improve the league:
- An effective co-ordinated marketing campaign; never been done apart from a few cheapo efforts - get eircom and RTE off their arse to take up the slack on this (e.g. GUINNESS Hurling championship/HEINEKEN Cup)
- stricter enforcement of financial responsibility; through proper UEFA licensing, salary caps, etc. If organised properly this will eliminate the unsustainable clubs naturally - if Home Farm or Shelbourne or UCD or whoever are prevented from spending beyond their means they will either need to increase income/attendances or they will get relegated through poor performance (SRFC last season; Waterford, possibly, this year)
There's some obsession in the FAI that you have to make drastic changes to the 'product' before you are allowed to relaunch it. Otherwise there's just no point marketing it. The FA Premier League did not get Gary Lineker to look over each team's results in the Littlewoods Cup or attempt to limit the number of clubs in the capital before their spectacularly successful relaunch. It's not the competion's name that the FAI should be copying!
arbitrary and spurious are the two words that characterise this whole mooted process
anyway in reply to WAR:
300 Rovers in Castlebar on Sunday, 700 in Monaghan, 800 in Kildare.
Bringing those sort of crowds do not make you more viable as a footballing entity, or more worthy of a place in a top tier than UCD or Dublin City. You seem to imply that 800 in Kildare or 300 at Castlebar is some sort of financial windfall. Its not - its peanuts in the general scheme of things. Eircom League clubs do NOT meet their costs via attendances - and LETS FACE REALITY HERE - never fcking will even in the sooopa doopa 'premiership' - where crowds will remain static or fall in my view due to the ten team nature of the format.
Calling it the "Premiership" and hoping 300 becomes 3,000 is just plain stupid. In an ideal world I'd want Shamrock Rovers or Limerick or whatever in instead of Dublin City in the top flight - but only if they win through on footballing criteria on a level playing field - which is more than possible even this season. Creating the spurious criteria is actually anti-football and should be opposed by all true football fans. Its the latest in a long line of failed quick fixes that will have us back at square one.
UCD are another completely unique footballing set up in my view - they bring something to the league that has a value beyond figures at the gate or a shiny new stadium, in terms of player development this league as a whole owes a lot to UCD's unique status over the years. The fact that they have survived in the top flight so long is again testament to the fact that other clubs have failed to capitalise on catchment areas and better situations. I dont think leap frogging them will improve this situation - it rewards incompetance and when incompetance is rewarded it flourishes
Will the FAI + Niall Quinn just decide the initial make-up of the top division and will there be promotion/relegation as normal thereafter, or no promotion/relegation thereafter, or will the "criteria" be used to decide promotion/relegation for ever more?
monutdfc- the criteria apply for only one year, then it's back to good old fashioned promotion and relegation. Except this time they're going to enforce licensing.
Which if they'd taken seriously the first time round would have avoided the need for this arbitrary crap for next year.
Thats the spirit lads !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Why dont you put a cap on the gates??
Lets say the first 83 in and then the gates close...
Whats the whole point in trying to do something that may make things better anyway.
Sure then you'd have nothing to complain about :rolleyes:
Having fans as opposed to having no fans means you are a footballing entity. Having fans at games means atmosphere, means players will be seen, it is what the game is all about not playing in front of a couple of dozen people. It is soul destroying to see figures of less than a hundred at a game. I've seen it.
I agree that a place in the premier should be decided on the pitch though. But I have asked before and will ask again: What is the alternative?
Take out the premier**** and the off field criteria for promotion and it is a good document for the league.
Last monday nights farce has to be the final nail in the coffin in terms of standing still. What is the point in having clubs in the league, premier and the first who do not have any fans? And I dont include UCD in that as they are worth their place in the league.
CHF deserved their promotion last season no question but what is the point in them being there? Ditto monaghan?
KOH
NYHoop, you would have said the same thing about Longford less than 10 years ago. Legend has it that there were 50 people in attendance at Stephen Kenny's first game in charge of Longford Town.
Difference is when they got promoted their crowds increased. Yours didnt despite the fact that their ground is further from the town. Same with CHF zero increase in crowds since they went up. Like I said no point being there then.Quote:
Originally Posted by monutdfc
KOH
Agreed so why not do that?Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
Shamrock attendances in the Premier were no bigger than their First Division crowds. Might as well leave them where they are so. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
This is the cruz here PS. Given the limited crowds/potential etc of UCD, you'll always be moving at a slower rate than other Premier Division clubs (bar Dublin City), and arguably slower than any other clubs in the league full-stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
To use the aul cliche - the league will only be as strong as its weakest team.
Our league is currently very weak on every aspect. Experience has shown that most teams will not improve their off-the-pitch set-up to any significant degree without some form of compulsion/incentive to do so. Hence why there are ongoing plans to address this - like Licensing.
This will be an ongoing process. For example, currently you need 1,500 seats for a premier stadium. The new proposal from the FAI now mandates 3,000. In a couple of years it will most probably rise to 4,000 or 5,000. It may go even higher after that.
If a team is not not keeping up with everyone else then it is clear that only one of 2 things can happen :
1) The rules punish you for this
Your percieved saviour of licensing will do this to you sooner or later through off-the-pitch criteria such as the number of seats in your stadium.
2) The rules themselves are deliberately pegged at a level that doesnt punish the likes of Dublin City and UCD - hence holding the league as a whole back.
If we have to demand a lower than desired rate of improvements to ensure that the weakest clubs don't get relegated for their infrastructure, then it is to be fully expected that the rest of the league will therefore be held-back by this decision.
This is the cruz of the situation PS. The writing appears to be on the wall - at some point or other small clubs like UCD and Dublin City will fall-foul of the ambitions of the rest of the league. This is purely because these small clubs does not have the finances or support base to have anything beyond the most basic of facilities.
Your club can pretend that this won't be the case, and cling-on desperately and try to scupper this inevitability. Or it can read what's written on the wall and get on with keeping up with everyone else. The fact that you are proposing to build a new stadium with only 1,500 seats - the current bare minimum - suggests that the will is not there to keep-up. If your stadium plans had any forsight whatsoever, a higher number of seats would've been included now for the inevitable increase in the minimum requirement that will eventually happen. If you always implement the bare minimum then you will be holding the league as a whole back. And sooner or later you will be punished for this. The same end result as you fear is being proposed in the current FAI proposal.
The writing is on the wall......
City and Derry last season would have gotten closer to the second figure if there had been room.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
I know this was a once off and title decider but it shows people will turn out if its exciting enough. There were a good few converts from that game id say
When we were first promoted under Billy Bagster we were competitive in the premier and our crowds increased. Last time we were promoted we were 10 game sin before we got our first win, by which time crowds had fallen off. Longford Town were competitive when they got promoted and had a good cup run which helps massively in retaining support. In terms of population, catchment area and dominance of the gaa there are a lot of comparisons between Longford and Monaghan. Put it like this, if Stephen Kenny had've been appointed Monaghan United manager things could have been whole lot different. I have huge admiration for Longford Town and they give us something to aspire to.
(BTW, 2 more Monaghan United schoolboys selected for an internatinal squad this week, another former schoolboy given a professional contract in the UK and another former senior player in the Ireland squad last week. You're right, we shouldn't exist.)
Now that is a good post..Quote:
Originally Posted by Galway Harps
Things will be back to normal one year on and if the small changes don't bring about a change in attitude to the now non EL fan then you can go back to the premiership clash of Dublin City v UCD with the other 82 people.
A whole lot of crap over something that's not going to be around in two years time.
They are trying to get clubs with enough fans and enough decent players that the atmosphere will be decent for those who turn up and maybe they may come back.
There is no point having great marketing and pumping money into the product if the guy who has never been to a EL game before decides to get up off his arse and brings the kids down to Dalymount to be faced with 80 other people who can shout around the ground to each other as the game goes on ??
I'll say it again as UCD and Dublin City fans seem to ignore this…
THE FAI ARE TRYING TO CHANGE THE ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE EL !!
They will have a much better chance of kick starting something if they have clubs who are willing to progress and who can potentially bring big numbers to games.
Your not looking at this with the EL in mind.
If it fails and your as well run as you all think then you will be back up soon enough as you are all aiming for the minimum standards set out in the Club Licence.
There you go no problem!!! Drama over …
Instead of playing in front of 83 to Kildare you can play in front of 83 to Dublin City.
so every game is a title play off?!
The air of unreality surrounding attendances - their significance in terms of running costs is astounding on this board.
Everyone lives in a dreamworld of fantasy attendances - or 'if only ucd and dublin werent there' - than we'd have a few thousand at EVERY game. BullshÍt
Well we'll have to disagree cos I was there in 93 and it was a bad crowd. I never said you should'nt exist just that you'd be better served if you went back to junior ball. Junior clubs regularly have players selected for Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by monutdfc
KOH
I don't think it does Steve. It says-Quote:
This will be an ongoing process. For example, currently you need 1,500 seats for a premier stadium. The new proposal from the FAI now mandates 3,000. In a couple of years it will most probably rise to 4,000 or 5,000. It may go even higher after that.
Considerations here to include Safe-holding (min. 3,000)Unencumbered access – Ownership / long term lessee / no. covered seats / plans re infrastructure development etc
Which seems to say that while having covered seating is desirable, it's not an actual requirement.
Dcfcsteve, I emphasise again, pragmatism and reality must be adopted. Just because an arbitrary number of 1,500 seats or 3,000 is set, that does not mean one has no ambition if they realise that in itself is more than the club needs. The SPL introduced minimum seating numbers which were too large for the reality of clubs. Falkirk fell victim to this on a couple of occasions and eventually the number had to be reduced to allow a proper flow of relegation and promotion to take place. Inverness Caledonian Thistle, a club who would not have made it under the old rules, are now one of the most progressive and well run clubs in the SPL. If we have the sense of reality to know all we need is 1,500 I consider that a good thing. No need to build a Colesseum if no one will come. The fact that we will build a 1,500 seater does not hold Derry back. You're free to do as you please (well if you can sort out the council stuff).
Higgins, you're living in a dream world, a reckless one at that. You'll arbitrarily relegate clubs for the craic and have a wee look at what happens, and if nothing does, sure why not, no harm done. Wrong. These changes are another in a long line of querks and quick fixes implemented by the authorities that have done nothing for the game as vividly pointed out by wws. You think someone may have randomly turned up to Dub City v UCD and been put off eL for life? Come on. There are more than enough big games in the Premier Division not to turn someone off if they're that fickle.
So the 8 grand that Rovers fans put into the coffers of Kildare County is peanuts? It's precisely because of the perillous nature of eL club's finances that crowds matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
Relatively large attendances help pay the bills and, shock, horror, actually convey the message that something worthwhile is going on ie. a football match that people might want to attend. It's called marketing.
Nobody can seriously say that the "crowd" at the DC/UCD game was not an embarrassment to Irish football. This has to stop and this document is a step in the right direction.
I agree about the 10-team format and especially with Jerry the Saint's point about the constant "give it a lash and see what happens" mentality that gave us summer football, 10 team/12 team leagues etc.
The bottom line is that Dermot Keely described the 1st division as a "wilderness" but as someone pointed out on our board, wherever DC play is a wilderness.
KOH
For life ? NOQuote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
For years yes ..
Word of mouth is a big factor in Ireland. It can make or break this idea.
If you were faced with a crowd of 83 at your first EL game what would you think ?
You yet again fail to see how it look on the outside to the non EL fan.
Ive brought many to Tolka with crowds over a 1000 and still got the 'there's not many here' remarks.
If you don’t think crowds at games make it a better occasion its not surprising you’re a UCD fan.
As for the above comment that 1,500 is enough for your needs ???
Do you not think the fact the current ground in Belfield is a complete and utter sh!thole that it may have some reason why your crowds are so low?
Do you not think with a better ground you may aim for over 1,500 seats?
I think the minimum requirement of 1,500 seats is far too low. Anyone who comes to an EL premier league game in the year 2006 should at the very least expect to sit down and watch the game in some sort of comfort.
You honestly telling us 1,500 is all you need in this new ground?
Even if your average is well under 1,500 you may very well get a crowd of 2,000 at some stage and to have 500 forced to stand it only serves to back up the opinion that the grounds in the EL are rubbish.
You lot don’t seem to have any ambition.
Calling it pragmatism is foolish.
Your holding the league back
Ideally I would like the FAI to implement the Club Licence in full and rid the premier of clubs like UCD by requirement issues but I'm happy to go along with the round about way it has the same happy ending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
yes it is peanuts and not a reason to relegate a club. Clubs with twice and three and four times that figure at the gate DO NOT meet current running costs¬! and that is a FACT
The idea that the crowd, or lack of at Dublin City - UCD is an impediment to the progress of any club in the first division (or prem) is wrong. Totally wrong. The crowds are not significant enough to warrant special weightings and favouritism. Even the crowds you quote wouldn't impress any unsold non el attender - in fact they're equally as off putting to a new customer bred on the real premiership were boros crowds are seen as "embaressing" to tv fed fans - what hope 800/900 at a poxy el game impressing them. It is called marketing, and acknowledging the horrifically low base is the first step to trying to incrementally improve it.
People will not be flocking to el games based on these proposals. Therefore you have to question what merit they have at all especially when they deliberately circumvent footballing merit - this would be a bigger killer for the league's credibility LONG TERM than having UCD or Dublin in.
Well if you thing that a crowd of less than 100 people at a derby game in the capital city in the country's top tier of football isn't an impediment to what people are trying to do for their clubs and the league then we'll just have to agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
KOH
Looks like we were just getting some intelligent debate going when higgins (who is clearly either an idiot/a WUM/both, so I'm not even going to waste time replying to his "issues") and dcfcsteve (who is just plain deluded) pipe up. Rather unfortunate timing, to be honest.
What's a cruz when it's at home? Dictionary.com defines it as a "Mexican nun and poet noted for her love lyrics, courtly tributes, satires, and plays as well as theological writings on the role of women in the Roman Catholic church."Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
(a) You appear to have ignored the post here which says that Belfield Bowl is being designed with an option to increase seated capacity (which is less than safe capacity) to 4000-5000, so your concern is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
(b) The new proposal mandates 3000 capacity, which you compare to 1500 seats. There's an important distinction which you are choosing to ingore as it doesn't fit your argument. The capacity criterion will not "most probably rise" in "a couple of years" to 4000 or 5000. There is no basis for such an increase. You only think there is because you're comparing seated capacity and safe capacity, which we have seen are different things. In addition, capacity can't increase quicker than it can be built, which we have already seen from various clubs' plans is longer than a couple of years. Further, there is absolutely no reason to believe that attendances at any club will necessitate such an increase in "a couple of years".
This only applies because you have a bee in your bonnet about number of seats being the sole factor involved in improving the league. I can see your vision of barstoolers now - "Want to watch the Arsenal game tonight?" "No, let's head to the Brandywell instead - I hear it's got loads of seats." Improvements also cover facilities such as toilets, refreshments, a club shop, youth set-up, not going broke every other season and other items covered in licencing.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Ambitions aren't worth the paper they're written on. If we fall foul of anything, it'll be achievements. I don't see anything being achieved. If twelve clubs can achieve more than us, we'll have no complaints about being in the First Division.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Oh hey - guess what? We've seen they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
You know, I wasn't convinced of your "argument" before you started repeating itself, but now I've come around to your way of thinking. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Since the whole arguement seems to come to crowds should Wigan be kicked out of the permiership, maybe Alaves out of La Liega, Siena out of Serie A etc. Maybe Napoli should have went straight from Seria C to A as they get 55,000 to each game. In no league anywhere do all clubs compete and offer the same. People here seem to think a new super duper league will increase crowds, have better facilities etc etc. No where in the plan have I read where the money will come for this. Football should be decided on the pitch simple as. Changing the requirements now is not fair, after all we had years to get ready for licencing and ignored that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
Lastly anyone who believes the FAI are even capable of doing this will get everything they deserve, when we have a crap league in a few years.
Apart from the prize-money.Quote:
Originally Posted by chippie0001
Still, as it stands, football needs a serious GAA-like injection of public funds that reflects its importance now and into the future. Business models alone don't and won't provide the answer -- we are not rugby, with its flush audience that sponsors and advertisers want to access.
But I also agree that sub-100 crowds do nothing for the game's claims to be taken seriously.
I like you to take back the WUM comment please!!!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Look I have stated above the 1,500 seats shows yet again your serious lack of ambition. The current proposal may not be the right way to do things that will get clubs with lack of ambition out of the Premier but as long as it has the desired result Im all for it.
You or some other UCD fan said you have gradually improved your ground over the past 12 seasons :)
Did anyone else find this funny because I certainly did.
At those current rate of improvements you will have proper dressing rooms by the year 2097!
Good look to you and your plans for the Belfield Bowl but from what I can see it looks like a decent ground for the first division!!
oooooooo toilets and a shop!!
wooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooooooo
Even Athlone and Harps in the first Division have better plans.
Heres a good idea for you to maybe get some more people down.
Hand out free tickets at the next Agorophobia support meeting in Dublin. They would love to sit in the wide open spaces of Dalymount with the other 83 of you..
Hear hear. The FAI taking full control of the league is a serious concern as well, and receiving less comment than it deserves because people have a bee in their bonnets that UCD's and Dublin City's attendances are somehow stopping Derry City from achieving their full potential. We're talking about an organisation headed by someone who nearly bankrupted Waterford United and who failed to notice that Shamrock Rovers were being bankrupted despite it being blatantly obvious on their licencing application. It's an organisation with an honorary life member (I think) who, 20 years on, is ultimately responsible for most of Shamrock Rovers' troubles to this day. It's an organisation with frequent rumours of clubs having excessive influence and which is now actively looking to screw over some of its members. If there were a fit and proper owner test (which I note isn't included in the new proposals), the FAI would fail. Are people happy with them controlling our league?Quote:
Originally Posted by chippie0001
Its not about their low crowds..Quote:
Originally Posted by chippie0001
Its about their lack of interest in ever having any decent crowds and their small time short term thinking thats holding the league back. As everyone else has said the league suffers from poor crowds for every team but at least there are a good few clubs trying to do something about this.