France V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 7th September 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

None of the Irish Players were near enough to the Shooter for the French Goal ~ You can't give players of that quality ( or maybe even lesser quality ) that much time and space because you will concede goals to those kind of shots ( as we have being doing ).

I don't think Kenny has worked this out ~ That some of his defenders are defending too deep.

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Déjà vu all over again.

We concede to long range strikes time and time and time again, yet Kenny doesn't seem to think it an issue, effectively putting it down to bad luck.

It isn't simply misfortune; we are susceptible to these sorts of goals because of the way we are set up defensively.

It has now become clear that opposition teams have identified this and are actively praying on this obvious weakness. Yet, incredibly, no action is taken by the management to rectify this glaring flaw.

What money on our allowing multiple long range strikes on our goal again against the Dutch? And we'll likely concede from one, too.

And, again, we'll no doubt have Ireland fans talking about 'unstoppable worldies' and how 'he'll never hit a better one - no goalkeeper is saving that'. As if it isn't an absolutely regular occurrence.

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

Yep. Obviously if Armstrong plays tonight, it kinda rules him out. Good luck calling Jim Crawford today and taking Armstrong when Carty is already out and Cannon isn’t answering calls.

Options below that are Afolabi and Georgie Kelly

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As if Jim Crawford has a say. If Kenny wants Armstrong to join up with the seniors Saturday morning he joins up with the seniors Saturday morning.

Put myself through the highlights on Virgin Media last night & the long range goals obviously came up, Damien Delaney saying our CB line in those particular situations as they develop is too deep which pulls the DMs back also to stay compact thus leaving the shooting space, said he thinks teams are aware of it and playing for it at this stage knowing it will come. Richard Dunne was next to him and didn't disagree. Two men who would have an idea where to be standing you'd imagine. He said also the focus seems to be purely to get behind the ball in numbers but stops there & obviously that doesn't cut it.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

Put myself through the highlights on Virgin Media last night & the long range goals obviously came up, Damien Delaney saying our CB line in those particular situations as they develop is too deep which pulls the DMs back also to stay compact thus leaving the shooting space, said he thinks teams are aware of it and playing for it at this stage knowing it will come. Richard Dunne was next to him and didn't disagree. Two men who would have an idea where to be standing you'd imagine. He said also the focus seems to be purely to get behind the ball in numbers but stops there & obviously that doesn't cut it.

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So what does this say about John O'Shea as a coach/Asst Manager?

Its no secret that we are susceptible to the long range strikes/worldies and i think the criticism and analysis from the likes of Delaney and folks on here is fair. I just dont think that the goal last night is a good example of us getting it wrong. Especially if you compare to the ones we conceded to Armenia, Luxembourg or Azerbaijan which are textbook examples of how we leave ourselves exposed. I thought the defense had set up pretty well last night given where the ball was with Mbappe - he just happened to lay it off impeccably and the strike was a no touch beauty, both of which gave neither Stevens nor Duffy time to break their shadow effectively.

Someone who knows more than me, how could that have played out differently?

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Originally Posted by third policeman

Seriously? That was as negative, incoherent and unstructured as any Ireland performance under O’Neil or Mick. There was no fluency, very little movement and a complete inability to keep possession for more than 2 passes.

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It was no Moscow away 2011 that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Its no secret that we are susceptible to the long range strikes/worldies and i think the criticism and analysis from the likes of Delaney and folks on here is fair. I just dont think that the goal last night is a good example of us getting it wrong. Especially if you compare to the ones we conceded to Armenia, Luxembourg or Azerbaijan which are textbook examples of how we leave ourselves exposed. I thought the defense had set up pretty well last night given where the ball was with Mbappe - he just happened to lay it off impeccably and the strike was a no touch beauty, both of which gave neither Stevens nor Duffy time to break their shadow effectively.

Someone who knows more than me, how could that have played out differently?

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& all fair enough too & in isolation probably right, but a TV talking head paid to fill space isn't going to ignore the fact we have conceded another goal along a very similar fault line either. As long as it keeps happening it'll remain a topic even if goals like that can just happen when against players of Frances calibre.

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Originally Posted by Demesne Lad

So what does this say about John O'Shea as a coach/Asst Manager?

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The manager doesn't see it as a live issue is my read, he's dismissive of it whenever he's asked, so a problem you don't see as a problem isn't one you'll give time to.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Its no secret that we are susceptible to the long range strikes/worldies and i think the criticism and analysis from the likes of Delaney and folks on here is fair. I just dont think that the goal last night is a good example of us getting it wrong. Especially if you compare to the ones we conceded to Armenia, Luxembourg or Azerbaijan which are textbook examples of how we leave ourselves exposed. I thought the defense had set up pretty well last night given where the ball was with Mbappe - he just happened to lay it off impeccably and the strike was a no touch beauty, both of which gave neither Stevens nor Duffy time to break their shadow effectively.

Someone who knows more than me, how could that have played out differently?

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I would agree - and it shows what can happen when a striker has time to set up and pick his spot. Last night it was a really nice job by France - on other occasions it was a lack of closing down by Irish defenders.

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Originally Posted by Insidetherock

We've brought through, a whole new squad.. not even a new team.. Ebosele tonight is the 19th new debutant..

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The problem is that no matter who was the manager they were going to have to bring through all of these kids - the Irish squad under O'Neill had gone over the hump age-wise.

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Originally Posted by Insidetherock

We've played most of the last 8 games, with an u21 team.. hopefully, hopefully.. the next manager, because I expect Kenny to be gone next week.. can take on those players.. do well in the world cup qualifiers, probably not qualify there either.. but have a mature team ready for the Euros in 2028..

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The next manager selected will be a crucial decision - because we have some talent coming through and we need someone with the ability to bring that talent along as a team and also have the football know-how to adapt when necessary.

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Originally Posted by Insidetherock

We're playing better football than when Kenny started.. but we need results..

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I don't agree - we are playing prettier football - but is it really any more effective. If you want to pass the ball you have to do so with the objective for penetrating and making chances.

Particularly in the second half last night France didn't even get out of second gear - they had no need to - and despite everything we basically created on half-chance. So while we had a team committed to the cause and they played their hearts out - we are nowhere close where we need to be to qualify for a tournament - and we are in danger of wasting the young talent that is potentially coming through unless there is a bullseye when the next guy is appointed (and I have no idea who that should be - Lee Carsley seems to be the best option at the moment from what I can see).

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

Put myself through the highlights on Virgin Media last night & the long range goals obviously came up, Damien Delaney saying our CB line in those particular situations as they develop is too deep which pulls the DMs back also to stay compact thus leaving the shooting space, said he thinks teams are aware of it and playing for it at this stage knowing it will come. Richard Dunne was next to him and didn't disagree. Two men who would have an idea where to be standing you'd imagine. He said also the focus seems to be purely to get behind the ball in numbers but stops there & obviously that doesn't cut it.

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Shows Kenny's ineptitude

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Originally Posted by Demesne Lad

So what does this say about John O'Shea as a coach/Asst Manager?

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That he is still learning his job and we don't know if he is any good.

I am thinking back to when Rooney was getting praise for the job he was doing at Derby - yet the person really running the show was Liam Rosenior

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Originally Posted by Insidetherock

Unfortunately we're seeing Josh Cullens limitations..

Same with Burnley.. he's an excellent Championship player, but he'll be dropped in a week or two at Burnley, and he'll spend the rest of his career getting teams to the Premiership, them getting let go

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The one big area of concern is midfield - Cullen, Molumby and Browne do not inspire any confidence - we have goalkeepers, defenders and attackers - but we are very short of potential midfielders - I really cannot see the argument against playing either Collins or Omobamidele in midfield (or both of them if we continue to have a derth in midfield and CBs continue to come through). Hopefully Moran makes it and then we have to hope for the likes of Hodge, Gilsenen, Vata, Bloxham, the kid at Arsenal et. al. to develop.

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Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

The one big area of concern is midfield - Cullen, Molumby and Browne do not inspire any confidence - we have goalkeepers, defenders and attackers - but we are very short of potential midfielders - I really cannot see the argument against playing either Collins or Omobamidele in midfield (or both of them if we continue to have a derth in midfield and CBs continue to come through). Hopefully Moran makes it and then we have to hope for the likes of Hodge, Gilsenen, Vata, Bloxham, the kid at Arsenal et. al. to develop.

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Re Collins and btw good shout on omobamidele. there is no argument.
Obviously we would like them in defence if we had top midfield players
But we don't we really don't.
Austria used alba in midfield when he was playing in defence for Bayern Munich. They did it because they needed him in midfield.

My guess is Collins is slightly more suited to DM but omobamidele might be pretty good too.

Cullen is our only midfield player of international standard. Molumby is inconsistent and he's a lunatic. I've no idea how he doesn't get more cards

Knight is good at everything very good at nothing.

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Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

The one big area of concern is midfield - Cullen, Molumby and Browne do not inspire any confidence - we have goalkeepers, defenders and attackers - but we are very short of potential midfielders - I really cannot see the argument against playing either Collins or Omobamidele in midfield (or both of them if we continue to have a derth in midfield and CBs continue to come through). Hopefully Moran makes it and then we have to hope for the likes of Hodge, Gilsenen, Vata, Bloxham, the kid at Arsenal et. al. to develop.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Re Collins and btw good shout on omobamidele. there is no argument.
Obviously we would like them in defence if we had top midfield players
But we don't we really don't.
Austria used alba in midfield when he was playing in defence for Bayern Munich. They did it because they needed him in midfield.

My guess is Collins is slightly more suited to DM but omobamidele might be pretty good too.

Cullen is our only midfield player of international standard. Molumby is inconsistent and he's a lunatic. I've no idea how he doesn't get more cards

Knight is good at everything very good at nothing.

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They aren't going to add what the midfield lacks though. They might be technically decent enough to survive in the DM role but they aren't going to add the creativity or guile further forward lads and its that we're missing.

Jury out on whether Cullen could be reasonably described as international standard too, he's as good as we have but that's about it.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

They aren't going to add what the midfield lacks though. They might be technically decent enough to survive in the DM role but they aren't going to add the creativity or guile further forward lads and its that we're missing.

Jury out on whether Cullen could be reasonably described as international standard too, he's as good as we have but that's about it.

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To be fair to Cullen his current colleagues in midfield make his job ridiculous difficult.
You've right about the link player between midfield and Ferguson

Basically we need Wes back!

We might have to see if smallbone or McGrath can do it until someone else's pops up

I would like to try Mickey Johnson there in a friendly. Might work might not but we have to think outside the box to survive

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Re Collins and btw good shout on omobamidele. there is no argument.
Obviously we would like them in defence if we had top midfield players
But we don't we really don't.
Austria used alba in midfield when he was playing in defence for Bayern Munich. They did it because they needed him in midfield.

My guess is Collins is slightly more suited to DM but omobamidele might be pretty good too.

Cullen is our only midfield player of international standard. Molumby is inconsistent and he's a lunatic. I've no idea how he doesn't get more cards

Knight is good at everything very good at nothing.

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Alba was a midfielder by trade that Bayern converted into a defender. Same with Philipp Lahm. Pep didn't have a brain wave by suddenly thinking one day this lad could play midfield. He could play midfield because he played there coming through the ranks and was a world class player. It's what Bayern do. They play midfielders in defence so players become versatile. Joshua Kimmich another midfielder they've played in defence.

Irish defenders playing in midfield, my bet would have been Coleman. Think Coleman would have taken to midfield because of his game intelligence.

Jonathan Afolabi and Sinclair Armstrong both called up to the senior squad.

That'll keep the Dutch staff up the next two nights.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Its no secret that we are susceptible to the long range strikes/worldies and i think the criticism and analysis from the likes of Delaney and folks on here is fair. I just dont think that the goal last night is a good example of us getting it wrong. Especially if you compare to the ones we conceded to Armenia, Luxembourg or Azerbaijan which are textbook examples of how we leave ourselves exposed. I thought the defense had set up pretty well last night given where the ball was with Mbappe - he just happened to lay it off impeccably and the strike was a no touch beauty, both of which gave neither Stevens nor Duffy time to break their shadow effectively.

Someone who knows more than me, how could that have played out differently?

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Since the beginning of 2021, 11 of the goals we've conceded have come from long distance strikes - roughly half of the goals scored against us in that time.

Taken in isolation, you could say every one of those goals was 'a unstoppable worldie', 'simple bad luck', 'an unbelievable, once in a lifetime hit', or whatever. But, looked on collectively in overview, it's obvious we have a problem. 'Don't get fixated' said Kenny, when asked about the issue.

But, accept it or not, this is symptomatic of the way the team is organised defensively and a recurring issue that has yet to be properly addressed by the management.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

That'll keep the Dutch staff up the next two nights.

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Googling the two of them. Yup.

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Originally Posted by JR89

Alba was a midfielder by trade that Bayern converted into a defender. Same with Philipp Lahm. Pep didn't have a brain wave by suddenly thinking one day this lad could play midfield. He could play midfield because he played there coming through the ranks and was a world class player. It's what Bayern do. They play midfielders in defence so players become versatile. Joshua Kimmich another midfielder they've played in defence.

Irish defenders playing in midfield, my bet would have been Coleman. Think Coleman would have taken to midfield because of his game intelligence.

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Paul McGrath was a centre-back with dodgy knees that Jack Charlton converted into arguably one of the best midfielders for a couple of years.

I think the potential of both Collins and Omobamidele is underestimated as possible midfielders - for different reasons - Collins is capable of taking the ball and running with it - Omobamidele has a low centre of gravity and is good at reading the game. Having one or both in midfield frees up the wing players - wing-backs and wingers to get forward.

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Originally Posted by Trequartista20

But, accept it or not, this is symptomatic of the way the team is organised defensively and a recurring issue that has yet to be properly addressed by the management.

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And won't be because the management don't think its a problem - or don't know how to address the problem.

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Originally Posted by JR89

Jonathan Afolabi and Sinclair Armstrong both called up to the senior squad.

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I like Armstrong - I think he has a lot of potential and could be Ferguson's strike partner for years if he comes anywhere close to fulfilling it.

Just as an aside - When Molumby was playing with the U-17s and U-19s (Both for Brighton and Ireland) there was many a game where he was pinging the ball around the pitch like Liam Brady - I think the loans at Millwall and Preston ruined him because they both wanted a box-to-box midfielder who could cover the ground and I think Molumby lost his way in the process - and I blame Graham Potter for not recognising what he had with Molumby and didn't play proper attention to him while he was on loan.

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Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

Just as an aside - When Molumby was playing with the U-17s and U-19s (Both for Brighton and Ireland) there was many a game where he was pinging the ball around the pitch like Liam Brady - I think the loans at Millwall and Preston ruined him because they both wanted a box-to-box midfielder who could cover the ground and I think Molumby lost his way in the process - and I blame Graham Potter for not recognising what he had with Molumby and didn't play proper attention to him while he was on loan.

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It happens all the time out on loan in the English meat grinder divisions.

We need to stop sending our best players over there.

Fix our own youth system. In the meantime, try and get players to go to the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, etc.

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Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

Just as an aside - When Molumby was playing with the U-17s and U-19s (Both for Brighton and Ireland) there was many a game where he was pinging the ball around the pitch like Liam Brady - I think the loans at Millwall and Preston ruined him because they both wanted a box-to-box midfielder who could cover the ground and I think Molumby lost his way in the process - and I blame Graham Potter for not recognising what he had with Molumby and didn't play proper attention to him while he was on loan.

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I am pretty sure that Molumby's passing accuracy is regularly among the best in the squad. His industriousness and "chaotic" qualities (as Stephen Kenny once noted) often distract from the fact that he rarely misplaces a pass. You could well be right about the moves impacting his better attacking instincts. Similar thing seems to have happened to Jeff Hendrick, who broke through at Derby County as a midfielder who got forward a lot and scored his share of goals. Then he moved to Burnley where his creative freedom was stifled.

FWIW, Molumby attempted, and completed more passes than any other Irish player against France - 40 completed from 42 attempted, or about one every two minutes
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cw6D2oSoaM2/

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

FWIW, Molumby attempted, and completed more passes than any other Irish player against France - 40 completed from 42 attempted, or about one every two minutes
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cw6D2oSoaM2/

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And which way did they go? There was a stage in the first half where about two team mates and Alan Browne urged him to slip one around a corner out right ahead of Browne. Molumby turned around and passed it backwards. It was galling in a game where he wasn't being pressed a pile and we couldn't get the ball forward fastly and accurately.

I have been hoping he'd improve but when you are seeing that kind of stuff happening where the percentage of completion is closer to 90% than his usual 100% it is hard to keep rooting.

And, yes, he used to be loving those passes and playing front foot football. Less so nowadays. Hopefully he can train it with confidence and time.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

And which way did they go? There was a stage in the first half where about two team mates and Alan Browne urged him to slip one around a corner out right ahead of Browne. Molumby turned around and passed it backwards. It was galling in a game where he wasn't being pressed a pile and we couldn't get the ball forward fastly and accurately.

I have been hoping he'd improve but when you are seeing that kind of stuff happening where the percentage of completion is closer to 90% than his usual 100% it is hard to keep rooting.

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According to who scored - https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/16...France-Ireland - it was 41 passes in total, 20 forward, 21 backward.
I forgot Molumby went off on 68 minutes, so it was closer to one pass around every minute and a half

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Originally Posted by Trequartista20

Since the beginning of 2021, 11 of the goals we've conceded have come from long distance strikes - roughly half of the goals scored against us in that time.

Taken in isolation, you could say every one of those goals was 'a unstoppable worldie', 'simple bad luck', 'an unbelievable, once in a lifetime hit', or whatever. But, looked on collectively in overview, it's obvious we have a problem. 'Don't get fixated' said Kenny, when asked about the issue.

But, accept it or not, this is symptomatic of the way the team is organised defensively and a recurring issue that has yet to be properly addressed by the management.

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Kenny has not taken in to account that his team are playing against much better players than he is used to playing against and much much more capable of shooting from distance. He is not giving the goalkeeper enough protection from these shots.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Kenny has not taken in to account that his team are playing against much better players that he is used to playing against and much much more capable of sc bring from distance.

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Ah will you stop

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Ah will you stop

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Stop the shooters or at least make it more difficult for them.

“Give them space lads, plenty of time to get shots away. We have nothing by to fear - Market Fields, the Showgrounds, Terryland, you name it I’ve been there, and players never score long shots against my teams. France more or less at the same level so we should be grand. Are you listening Festy? Enda, Shano, Johnser, Jayo, Joshy - Whatever you do, remember, just give them lots of time on the ball and plenty of space to shoot from distance.”

That’s how the team talks go.

Romania v Israel tonight and Albania v Poland tomorrow are games of interest for Ireland. Ireland need Israel and Poland to qualify automatically with Romania and Albania missing out.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

“Give them space lads, plenty of time to get shots away. We have nothing by to fear - Market Fields, the Showgrounds, Terryland, you name it I’ve been there, and players never score long shots against my teams. France more or less at the same level so we should be grand. Are you listening Festy? Enda, Shano, Johnser, Jayo, Joshy - Whatever you do, remember, just give them lots of time on the ball and plenty of space to shoot from distance.”

That’s how the team talks go.

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Ah, here, Stu, that's a weak strawman. That's not how it works. Every decision made about how a team plays is a compromise. No one is saying, "Make this mistake." They might be obsessing about stopping one kind of attack and inadvertantly priming another. The best balance is delicate, or managers would never get an edge on each other tactically. I'm not arguing that's what's happening here, but it's hardly implausible.

I know. Read seanfhears post though. It implies that Kenny is completely brainless, lacks anny awareness and doesn’t coach with account for the quality of the opposition he faces. We all have our opinions on Kenny but come on!!

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Originally Posted by SkStu

I know. Read seanfhears post though. It implies that Kenny is completely brainless, lacks anny awareness and doesn’t coach with account for the quality of the opposition he faces. We all have our opinions on Kenny but come on!!

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Kenny is the one that is saying long range goals are not an issue ~ ~ When they are.

That’s not true SF. I just read an article this morning where he calls out the issue and talks about the adjustments they have been making and need to make. Obviously more needs to be done on the issue but he’s also not a brainless, blind numpty which is what I took from your original message.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/stephen-kenny-issues-injury-update-ahead-of-ireland-vs-netherlands/a621700174.html

Kenny confirms Keane and Stevens out and discusses the late call-ups. 3 minute video.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Kenny is the one that is saying long range goals are not an issue ~ ~ When they are.

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Time for everyone on this forum, a day out from the visit of Holland to the Aviva, to put their thinking caps on and identify the problems besetting our national team and the solutions to fix those problems. I've been listening to, and it's not limited to this forum by any means, Irish lads bang on about this or that for decades now. And I can't remember one solution offered or any type of vision for the future. Unless something changes drastically with the Irish game we'll be here forever moaning about not qualifying for major competitions.