'We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.'Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Old Oscar never had to watch this muck though.
'We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.'Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Old Oscar never had to watch this muck though.
"There are so many players to come back in before our next round of fixtures; Byrne not starting tonight, given the vast number of cry-offs, means he's never going to start."
Proof positive that Kenny isn't the keenest and it was only ever political-motivated call up. But most of us had worked that out anyway."
Politically motivated. I love that narrative. Was it political when McCarthy played him against Bulgaria for 30 minutes and he set up one goal directly and one goal indirectly? Or when O'Neil involved him in the training camp when he was playing in Holland? Kenny didn't pluck him out of nowhere to appease the LOI fans, at least half of whom hate Jack any way because he plays for Rovers. He is a backup and a good one based on what we've seen so far. There doesn't have to be a conspiracy theory around it. Brady went off and he came on. It's fairly straight forward. The squad isn't blessed with creative talent so like it not he will be in and around teams until someone else can step up.
He came on and did well again tonight. We were a better team for the few minutes he got for me. Much better patterns and we created more chances. Wasn't hard to be better but he did far more than Hourihane did all game. I'd say Brady as well but he had our best shot on goal. He was fairly anonymous outside of that though and I always feel like he thinks he doesn't have to work hard in the 10 role and the ball should just come to him.
Cullen did well too and Parrot actually moved for the ball. All of it made is more dangerous but Jack did his part and at this stage it's getting a bit tiresome to see how quickly people want to knock him but give others like Knight a free pass. Knight had a good second half but played an absolute hospital ball in the first half where he looked generally out of his depth. Nobody was jumping online to criticize him oddly enough.
It is in a way, I guess. Trap and MON were on 2m a year, weren't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
Can't afford that any more.
I'll wait for Trequartista20 to show proof of the underpants first.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
We couldn't afford it then either.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
He did. It's how he ended up in court.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Don't get me wrong, I would have had Byrne in my starting line-up tonight. But what was it, 16 players who pulled out of squad over the course of the these games? With others also unavailable for various reasons. And still Byrne couldn't manage to get a start, with players not in the original panel starting ahead of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
What other conclusion could you possibly come to other than that Kenny doesn't really fancy him?
I'd agree that it's odd but there are other reasons on offer:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
That it's him or Brady most of the time and Brady is more established?
That Kenny is a bit of a coward and doesn't have the balls to throw him on knowing the reaction from the anti-LOI brigade might get him sacked unless Jack scores a worldy?
That Kenny still hates Rovers?
That the players who came in were all in slightly different positions?
That we don't really play a formation that suits Jack?
My honest opinion is that I think Kenny rates Jack but possibly thinks he isn't physically ready for 90 minutes and that he will use him when he really needs the creativity at the risk of him maybe losing the ball or not tracking back as fast as other options like Molumby/Cullen/Knight can when games are really tight. We don't really cater to someone playing in the 10 right now because so much has to be done in midfield to counter the fact that Hourihane is useless and we have nobody to take the pressure off up front by running channels and getting the ball to stick to them for more than a second. But also that Kenny is a bit of a coward.
I'd love to see Jack, Cullen, Knight and Parrot all on at once but tonight was the game for it and Kenny bottled it. Tbf Parrot wasn't fit but it was clear after 30 mins that Brady and Hourihane weren't interested in or able to do the job.
There are other options apart from Paul Jewell, Phillipe Troussier and Stephen KennyQuote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
You would hope there is a break clause. That's standard enough in contracts these days. Surely even the FAI insisted on that before appointing an manager who's only experience outside Ireland was short lived in the SPL that ended in relegation.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
The woeful financial situation of the FAI is only getting worse with him in charge. The pandemic is covering this up, but the vaccines are coming. When we get back to life in 2021, and the government support ends, who in gods name is paying to watch that dross?
Traditionally we replace the League of Ireland guy with a former player, who in turn gets replaced by a big name from the continent, followed by a long ball merchant, then back to Mick McCarthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
I'd be willing to break the cycle. We could go with someone who has been out of the game for a while, or a young coach with ideas. How can it get worse? It's been 11 hours since we scored a goal.
JFCQuote:
Originally Posted by John83
Sam Allardyce has never done anything for free in his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Martin O'Neill is the reason why Jack Grealish was tormenting Belgium and Iceland instead of Wales and Bulgaria this week.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
I'm not sure if this is serious? What sort of ideas, beyond what Stephen Kenny is trying to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Pity it’s not performance related. The FAI would be making money out of him.
We could start conceding goals too.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Seriously, it can always get worse
Mick wasnt great, we need to create more chances per game, Kenny says 4-3-3 but it is 4-2-3-1, not workingQuote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
I said "ideas". Stephen Kenny has an idea. He wants to play 4-3-3 and knock it about a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
It isn't working and he won't try anything else. We haven't seen so much as something off the training ground at a set piece.
O'Neill got pelters for not working on set pieces. They were dreadful tonight. Far worse than anything in the O'Neill era.
The idea that “hmmmm this isn’t working, let’s not persist with it for 8 games of not working”.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Grealish didnt want to play, period. Rice was his agent.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
[QUOTE=backstothewall;2058137]I said "ideas". Stephen Kenny has an idea. He wants to play 4-3-3 and knock it about a bit.
It isn't working and he won't try anything else. We haven't seen so much as something off the training ground at a set piece.
O'Neill got pelters for not working on set pieces. They were dreadful tonight. Far worse than anything in the O'Neill era.[/QUO
The same, yeah, his system is not working, may work a 3-4-3 / 3-5-2/ 3-6-1 LikeArgentina in Mexico 86/Italy90
We had zero shots on target against Bulgaria. In a home game. Think about that.
In a game where the fans were more concerned about scoring than the result, where we would have been happy with a goal, even in a loss, we failed to trouble the opposing goalkeeper.
Kenny's honeymoon period is now well and truly over. The 4-3-3 formation is clearly not working. We obviously can't score with it, and in more than half the games where is been used, we've failed to keep a clean sheet.
Excuses about players not being available are all well and good, but a good manager would recognise that repeating the same mistakes would end in the same results. Kenny didn't recognise this, and persisted with a formation that few (any?) of the players use at their clubs.
In defence, Duffy and Long were fine, and with two enforced changes at full back, dropping Randolph, an unforced change, would have been a needless change. Having said that, Travers and Kelleher must be wondering what they have to do to get a chance after eight games have passed without either player seeing a minute of action.
When the starting XI was announced, I asked this question
For most of the first half and the early part of the second half, there didn't appear to be one. This meant there was no clear link between defence and midfield, and the defence was often left exposed by three players, none of whom seemed to have been told to sty around the centre circle. The Bulgarian midfield were happy to let our defence have the ball, knowing that they would struggle to make a clean pass to the midfield players, which allowed them to claim possession and push forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Up front, Curtis, Collins, and Horgan tried hard, but failed to test the opposition. Horgan looks good at times, but he's clear he's James McClean without the unlimited running. Collins is a Championship striker - I actually like the guy, and have a lot of time for how he's played his way up through the divisions in England - but he's not international class.
Of the substitutes, Cullen was the standout improvement on what went before, and (fitness permitting) should have started.
I'm not #KennyOut yet, but the qualifiers for the World Cup in 2022 will start in March, and if we go through those fixtures without a win, without a goal, it might be time to cut our losses on him
The lowest winning percentage for an Ireland manager since Jack Charlton took over is Steve Staunton's 35% - Kenny's is zero (obviously), and he'll need at least five wins from the fixtures in 2021 just to match Staunton's total.
AKA the second half against Denmark in Martin O'Neill's Waterloo.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
If we end up playing Denmark next I'd seriously consider a 1-5 just to get the 1.
Two positives, we got relegated from Div 2 of the UNL last year, this year we didn't and we saved Eur1.5m
I said to a friend he's got the first half the WC campaign to get at least one win and that's it. Surely that's fair even to the most diehard revolutionary.
oh, and can anyone explain why Marcus Harness was there?
Harness was involved in the camp I think. Must not have gotten his passport and/or FIFA approval sorted in time.
Looking forward to seeing him involved. Pompey fans seem to rate him highly.
so the FAI flew a player to Dublin, even though his FIFA clearance still hasn't come through, during a pandemic that has claimed four players from this squad alone?
There are a load of things he could have tried. He could have gone with 3 at the back. He could have gone with an old fashioned 4-4-2. He could have really gone out there and tried Jack Byrne as a false 9.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bielsa´s irish
I find it hard to believe that the FAI went on an extensive search for a young coach with ideas, trawled the leagues of Europe, the Americas and the far east, and by sheer coincidence the most capable guy they could find just happened to be a lad in his late 40s working in Dundalk.
John Delaney was getting heat and wanted to throw a bone to the League Of Ireland fans because they had the knives out for him since the "Problem Child" comment. If Stephen Kenny is the best coach the League Of Ireland has to offer, it's obvious to me that coaching is part of the reason why it has a lower UEFA Coefficient ranking than the leagues in Luxembourg, Lithuania & Liechtenstein.
Yep that's about right.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Putting the poor results aside, anyone in the world can see josh Cullen is a very good player and his lack of involvement and the continued involvement of some players who are quite frankly sh*t, does raise questions over Kenny's ability to be an international manager. He does deserve the WC campaign but grave concerns are there to be seen. The Conor hourihane situation is now at the point of ridiculousness. He is just awful.
Plus goal bonuses. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I agree with tetsujin, the system is not working, wont work, dont know why he persists ,Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
S.Kenny mistakes these last 3 games.
1) Persistence with a formation that nullifies our attack
2) Arrange a little game with England, out of time and place, when we needed confidence, didnt set up another type of friendly, at home, to test the chemistry of the attack plays of our forwards.
3) Not having called Shane Long for the original squad.
4)Isolate Idah in the attack, and expose the youngster.
5) Don't change your formation when things don't work out.
6))Not have called at least one goalkeeper who is currently playing.
7)he did not try a bolder and more intrepid attitude with the substitutions. Apple for apples
8)Not having practised options from set pieces.
9)Failure to encourage leadership on the football pitch.
10)Playing football without a definite idea of how to break the opponent's resistance. When and how to change the rhythm of the game.
11)Bad ways of expressing himself on tv, to defend his football idea.
I see Collins coming in for a fair bit of criticism but I thought he did ok. If he scored one of his chances (easy saying that) it would be a different story.
But sadly in many ways he looked streets ahead of Idah to me.
Of all the regimes I've watched live O'Neill's was the most depressing. The football was barbaric. Kenny is encoraging them to knock the ball around, but it is ineffective for the most part because we have mediocre players. I have doubts about Kenny but I would rather be mediocre for 4-5 years and try and play football than the **** O'Neill served up.
The old guard need to go. I despise Brady. He struts around like he's world class. Since Euro 2016, he has been useless for us. He's a great opinion of himself. McClean is a horrendous player. He has good spirit and cares. To be fair, he got a few big goals for us, but if we are going to aim to become a decent team again, his time is up. A truly limited player. Hendrick shows glimpses of being a top player but you can't rely on him. Hourihane is a bit the same. I've a big soft spot for Duffy and Randolph but it's clear as day, their time is up if we are expecting all our players to be comfortable on the ball. I would find a way of working Jack Byrne into the team. He did more in a few minutes than a lot of Irish players did in 90. I understand he is likely to be moving to Cyprus and I'm glad he is going back to the continent.
I've said it before that the only silver lining we have is that we actually have talented players coming through. Great seeing O'Shea and Knight tonight. I have question marks about Kenny as a manager but let's be honest he isn't going anywhere and the young lads seem to like him and respect him. I doubt the likes of Brady do. We are a pot 3 side in name because I would judge us as being a pot 4 quality side. We won't qualify for wc 2022 but if Stephen can bring through the young lads even if it means some tough nights, we will emerge better for it in the coming years and he will deserve great credit.
Agreed. Idah and Parrott for cameos onlyQuote:
Originally Posted by zero
This is all true, but in defence of Idah he was left totally exposed. Curtis and Horgan got a lot closer to Collins tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
And Idah is a full decade younger than him, so he's going to look a little green in comparison. Playing Idah is an investment in the future.
The thing with Hourihane that nobody sees it seems is that he is misplaced, he is a slow old fashioned number 10, with a good peg, the more he is far from the opposite box the more innefective he is. we florished for Barnsley when the team was built around him. He is 10, a bit slowQuote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
I'm going to continue to back Kenny, there are no alternatives and I still see relative progress considering the sh1t show we are in with players missing.
Firstly the negatives. Hourihane continues to be my least favorite player in this Irish squad and is a fraud of a footballer. So much space in that midfield tonight for a good player to make use of and he was horrific. Kenny took way too long to make subs. Horgan should not have been 1st player off, Curtis was brutal and should have be off at HT. Collins is what he is, only played because of players missing but he should have been taken off with half hour to go. Manning was poor at left back, but 1st cap so cant judge too harshly. Duffy was good defensively but his distribution continues to hurt us, and Randolph is going to get caught out in a big game soon when he tries those dummys.
The positives. Firstly lots of very good players to come back in. I do think if everyone is fit we will be drastically different. Im not going to list all the players but I think Connolly alone would have made massive difference in these 2 games. Parrott was on for far too short a time but you can see theres a player there and its such a tease. His touch and movement were so far above Collins and its very exciting. We could very well go into the March games with him having scored 10 goals for Milwall. Id love to see Jack Byrne get a move, he is more than capable of playing at a high level, thought he was excellent when he came on. Hes positive and looks for the ball all the time. We improved when he came on and a good move in January would help his case. Cullen was also good. Knight was a bit over eager at times but his work rate was excellent and I thought he was trying to be a one man show at times in midfield with Hourihane and Brady doing a disappearing act. Dara O'Shea is a big positive from these group of games. Different positions and pretty comfortable in all, very calm for a young guy.
The draw will be tough now being 3rd seeds so we have to hope we get lucky and we will have to hit the ground running with full squad in March. I dont think we have sacrificed any of the defensive solidity that we had under O'Neill and McCarthy but I do think we at least look like we might progress. I can guarantee you that with either of those 2 managers we would have set up against Bulgaria and Wales with 11 men behind the ball considering the amount of players missing. Both would have said they were delighted with 0-0 tonight and I dont doubt we would probably have had about 30% possession. Never forget that in a game we had to win we went away to Georgia under McCarthy and Randolph was wasting time 15 minutes into the game because McCarthy was playing for the draw and hope to nick a set piece. I dont want to go back to that type of thinking.
It was said by Bradley that it was a really bad case and he struggled to run at all for weeks afterwards. Would totally believe that there some lingering effects: “It’s hit Jack bad,” said Rovers boss Stephen Bradley yesterday. “He started running but hasn’t looked good the last few days.“He’s trying but has no energy and he can’t get the oxygen in. He’ll try to do a little bit again, but he got hit with it bad.”Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
apparently his clearance has come through and he was brought in late once it looked unlikely that O'Dowda would make it, so essentially he was the 24th man, just there if there were any pre-match injuries / covid symptoms etc. etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Dissecting the team for March. After his 8 games position by position , what are the best options for Kenny
First of all I wouldnt play a 4-3-3-, I would try a 3-4-1-2
GK Randolph is the only option. What a problem if he gets injured. Westwood? McDermott? Rogers?O'hara? a young man?
Right Center back Coleman or Duffy for me. Maybe Kevin Long.
Sweeper: Egan , Duffy or Lenihan. Collins
Left center back Ciaran Clark, Oshea, Derrick Williams Dunne Long
Right wing back Doherty, Coleman, Horgan, Browne, Smallbone., oconnor
Center Mids James McCarthy, Cullen, Hendrick, Molumby, Knight, lenihan Odowda Hourihane Arter Browne Coventry
Left wing back Stevens Odowda, Manning McClean Brady
Number 10 Ronan, Byrne, Hourihane, Brady Connolly
forwards Connolly Long Obafemi Robinson Parrott Idah Collins Hogan Maguire
I don't see anyone suggesting going back to that way of thinking. I saw the name Sam Allardyce mentioned above, but i read it as being in jest. I don't want us to go back to anything. I want us to go forward, but under Kenny we stuck where we are, wallowing in this. Footballing eunuchs who never score a goal, who never even hit a shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
But anyone suggesting Sam Allardyce, Alan Pardew, Nigel Pearson or anyone of that ilk can take themselves off as far as I'm concerned.
In an ordinary times, and in an ideal world, Chris Hughton would come available, but even if he did we couldn't afford him. And i doubt he would take it anyway.
We're going to need someone cheap. That's likely someone raw and inexperienced who is desperate enough for the opportunity to take it on, or more likely someone who has been out of the game for a year or two and wants a way back in. At least they might be able to do the basics of setting a team up with a plan and adjusting the approach depending on what happens on the field.
I'd like to see the FAI approach Eddie Howe, he's overachieved with Bournemouth and had them playing a nicely balanced game, with some pressing but also quick breaks with wide players. He developed players quite well there including Harry Arter. His team's tended to perform better than the sum of their parts (i.e. players overachieved) - his major failings at Bournemouth were expensive signings that didn't work, but that is not an issue in international management.
Surely Kenny must see the neither Darren Randolph or Shane Duffy suit his play out from the back ideas ! !
I suspect Eddie Howe has more ambitious plans !Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo