Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.
I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.
[QUOTE=Razors left peg;2049413]Hopefully Kenny can make the most of it and get these players playing well for us. The argument from previous managers that we dont have the players to compete has always been BS.
I still hate the argument that we dont have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s very annoying. Would Houghton, Alridge, Whelan, Lawrence, Beglin and others have all played for Liverpools winning teams if Liverpool were bringing in top players from all over the world.[/QUOTe
Yes. all of them were world class players. Sadly for Beglin though. Lawrenson and Whelan were class. Ray was ok. Aldo would have played more time in Spain were he is known as Diego De La Vega el zorro for spanish speakers worldwide till this day
No, he's not.
So a quick google of Diego De La Vega el zorro and John Aldridge together produces zero results considering its known "World Wide"... can we please stop the madness
Aldridge was known as El Zorro during his time at Real Sociedad. I knew this as an Irish fan who's read a lot of books and articles about our players. I'm not sure it's quite universal knowledge, however.
https://www.theguardian.com/football...sport.comment1
sorry el zorro aldridge la liga or basque club from lovely Donostia Real Sociedad de fútbolQuote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Whelan and Lawrenson were both world class. Were it not for injury, Beglin would have been also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Houghton, Staunton and Aldridge were high class players. Aldridge was top class in La Liga and one of the top forwards there. Staunton and Houghton would have done very well on the continent also.
Don't get me wrong, I love all the players I mentioned. I just have my doubts that Aldo and Houghton would have been pulled from Oxford United into Liverpool in today's transfer market. The competition for places in the top 6 clubs in Premiership now is insane when they can get anyone from around the world so I have my doubts all those players would have been playing in title winning teams
The Present teams would definitely beat the old teams but the players on the old teams are very old now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
The point is, he's not now, and since even Google can't find anything relevant, we won't either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
Actually, he had a couple of fairly respectable third-place finishes in qualifying. When he took over for the last few qualifiers for the 2011, we were well on our way to our second last-place finish in a row. And while he had some good players going through, I don't think he had the depth of quality at his disposal that Kenny and Crawford have had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Also, of the 20-man squad at Euro 88, only 12 were playing for English top-flight clubs in the preceding season - 3 were at Celtic, 3 were at Second Division teams, David Kelly was plying his trade for Walsall in the Third Division, while John Byrne was playing for the worst team in the French first divisionQuote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
He didn’t use what depth he had well though. The likes of Jack Byrne not being included in his final campaign, no logic there, including Dimaio ahead of him. Jimmy Dunne was ignored until the nordies tried to convince him. Dan Cleary was also a better CB than the lads who played in the last campaign. Talbot better than Liam Bossin as a keeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
By the end of the campaign, Daire O’Connor and Daniel Kelly we’re viable options. Ogbene and Crowley weren’t really pursued. That’s just the 96-97 kids.
Imagine this team for King’s final campaign...
Kelleher
Whelan
Dunne
Cleary
Manning
Ogbene
Rice
Cullen
Byrne
Curtis
Hale
That’s a very strong u21 team...
Kenny made a very competitive u21 squad by
A) moving players up the age groups as soon as they were ready. Meanwhile King stuck with the one squad from 96/97, even after the 98 and 99 kids graduated 19s. The only players to be used from later were Ronan Hale and Conor Ronan as far as I remember. Whereas Kenny immediately moved up Lee O’Connor, Conor Coventry and Adam Idah. Meanwhile, the likes of Connolly, Parrott, Knight, Collins, Bazunu etc etc weren’t far behind. 5 age groups in total were used in competitive fixtures... (98,99,00,01,02)
B) getting the best out of LOI players with first team experience. The likes of Farrugia, Elbouzedi, Scales and Leahy were all important players from the squad. Certainly, in the previous campaign LOI players with genuine upside were regularly ignored in favour of the likes of Quigley, Donnelan etc. who clearly had very little chance of being useful footballers for us... Curtis and McGrath are the only one I can think of who received a call-up on the back of LOI performances (as opposed to someone who was in England and was a squad regular and then went home ie Danny Kane). Also, McGrath didn’t really get much of an opportunity, maybe 1 game or 2 off the bench...
C) Playing early, playing often. Games against Ireland amateurs, homegrown squads, Toulon tournament etc etc. Rotating fringe players. The more players you see, the greater the chance of finding talent.. and Kenny found about 3 options in every position...
Fair point re Aldo and Ray. Having said that Klopp took Robertson from Hull so it can still happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
whelan and lawrenson are european cup winners which would support the view that they were top players at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
houghton, aldridge and beglin could well be european cup winners if english clubs were not banned in the late 80s.
can only judge the players at the time they were playing and all five were good enough to play for one of the best club sides in europe in the 80s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
BI spouts a lot of BS but Aldo was called Zorro during his time in Spain, and after he left by at least one sub in the Indo. I'm not sure he was called it after the masked swordsman, or because he was a fox in the box -the latter I assume because the original Zorro was a US pulp-fiction creation. Personally, Aldo works fine for me. I've never called him anything else.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-26056027.html
Football has moved on, and the Ireland team of today would probably beat the Ireland team of Euro 88 at their prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
But relatively speaking, the Ireland team has most definitely gone backwards a lot. We have no players close to the relative calibre of Houghton, Aldridge, Whelan, Lawrenson or Beglim. It's why we're serious also-rans now where reaching the last 16 of the Euros is hailed as a major achievement (when in 2002, reaching the last 16 of the world was kind of expected, even without our best player).
The Liverpool team of the late 70s and 80s was imo the greatest English side of all time. I would say definitely top 5 club side of all tine. I think their late 80s vintage was brilliant but in fairness they would have been up against AC Milan of that era, who for my money is the best club side I've seen in my lifetime. Not saying they wouldn't have won 1-2 more after Heysel, but not set in stone either. A final between the two around 1990 would have been a hell of a match, but I'd have AC coming out on top.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Not a Liverpool fan, as I only support Ireland. However, I may be biased regarding them and Everton as I like Liverpudlians best from having lived in England and at a time when other cities weren't so welcoming to a young Irish lad, they were generally top class. I was living there when Ray scored against England and they were loving us beating them.
give them equal fitness etc and the euro 88 team would beat the current team 9 times out of 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
its easy to forget just how good some of that team was and it was also full of tough pros and leaders.
Well yes - but "equal fitness, etc" is quite a lot!
But effectively I agree with you that the point that "We don't have players playing for the top clubs like we did in the 80s" is entirely legitimate.
I would have expected the current Irish team to get out of that group also, the euros is hard because there are no easy matches but in the World Cup a lot of filler teams qualify (Germany,SA,Cameroon) and let’s not forget even that 2002 team only beat Saudi.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
the real tragedy is we will have to watch this game at home as I don't think the Dublin pubs will be open on time?
Aldo was well-known outside Div 1, regularly topping the Div 2 goalscoring charts I think. I couldn't believe it when he declared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Whatever about Oxford, Beglin (discussed above) came from Rovers. That definitely doesn't happen anymore! Class as he was I'm not even sure he was Rovers' best left back of that era. John Coady (unremarkable spell at Chelsea) was also exceptional in the LOI but I'd say Kevin Brady was the pick of the 3. He followed Jim McLaughlin, Mick Byrne, Mick Neville and Dermot Keely to Shels I think, after the 4 in a row side broke up. Brady had electrifying pace. Anyone else here remember him?
hi lads any gossip?
when the squad is released?
I expected it on Friday, but there's nothing in the news about it, so now I'd expect it after this weekend's fixtures. Probably Monday or Tuesday.
Can't imagine its going to be any different to last squad. No one who was left out has really put in amazing performances for club to say they should be in. Maybe Jack Byrne for Molumby if he wants to get more creativity in there
Troy is starting. If he does the business v Burnley I could see him getting in
Yeah fair point, but he was named in initial squad anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Was he I thought he replaced mcgoldrick for Bulgaria
Think he was named knowing that Mcgoldrick wasn't going to be available.
Looks a bit off the pace in 1st half hour tonight
Watched the first half. Terrible game of football. Two sides playing like it's a behind closed door Tuesday night reserve game.
Parrott hasn't been in the game and his teammates when he is free on a few occasions have chosen not to play the ball to him even though he's in space and the man they play it to isn't. Was bundled off the ball easily from a milwall clearance too. He's playing quite deep.
Yup that about sums it up so farQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Squad should be announced tomorrow right?
Should be tomorrow or maybe Tuesday. But I would expect it to be a predictable enough selection. Same group as last time minus O'Dowda and Brady if injured, with Kelleher probably dropping down to the Under 21s and O'Hara coming back in. Leaves a squad of 23 by my count.
I don't see how those two results would warrant an unchanged squad but lets hope and see there's a tiny bit of turnover. With two Nations League games to come too, I'd hope Obafemi would see game time in one of them but it's probably unlikely.
I think he has nailed his colours to the mast in terms of Obafemi for now. Same with Smallbone. To be fair neither has done anything since the restart to warrant inclusion.
I'm struggling to think who else they could add in to be honest. Cullen isn't playing, Manning isn't playing, Parrott's injured. Dunne has played a couple of games for Burnley but we're well stocked at centre back. You could try a different third choice keeper but you're only keeping someone out of the 21s squad who isn't going to play anyway.
We are where we are for now. It's going to be about trying to get more from the players we have. Other than right back the team seems to pick itself.
Randolph
Coleman/Doherty
Duffy
Egan
Stevens
McCarthy
Hendrick
Hourihane
Robinson
McGoldrick
Connolly
It's a decent team on paper all the same.
Would you add Byrne ?
You could I suppose. The only thing is Kenny apparently told Byrne he didn't want to play with a 10 last month when he didn't pick him. If he sticks to that position then there's no point calling him up. But, of the players outside the 23, he's as good an option as anyone at the moment.
Does the seeming rigidity of SKs initial stance on what we will be / will set up as, concern you at all ? Lot of eggs going in one basket a bit maybe.
Yeah I agree which is a shame. Not that Sean Maguire has done anything to warrant selection this time or last time either, yet he'll be picked and offer nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
In a knockout game I don't know how he's going to overlook Obafemi as a change of pace sub.