your view, not mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
i could name 10 ctre mid performances that were far worse during the MON tenure.
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your view, not mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
i could name 10 ctre mid performances that were far worse during the MON tenure.
Thats really not a debate that's worth anyone's time. There was a lot of crap midfield performances under last few managers but Christie in midfield wasnt a highlightQuote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Kind of agree with jbryne that Christie wasn't that bad considering, or indeed that bad anywhere else, but it was a kind of pointless experiment. For a reserve full back Christie did fine for us, better than fine on occasion. He seems to suffer from the same broad brush stroke analysis that Paul Green did, regardless of how well he did at times and given he was usually only emergency cover anyway.
Ross Barkley is probably going to take Hourihane's place in the Villa team this season. Disappointing for him but realistically he's probably the weak link in midfield in terms of his contribution in general play. If we had a more consistent midfielder available and someone else to cover set pieces we'd probably drop him too. Will still probably get plenty of game time off the bench and as an injury replacement.
Maybe he will take Hourihane's place. But I think your rather dismissive appraisal overlooks the fact that they're quite different players who play different roles, and the fact that Hourihane scored a goal and assisted one in Villa's previous game. Not to mention the prominent part Hourihane played in Villa avoiding the drop last term.
Fair enough. I just don't see any of Luiz, McGinn or Grealish being dropped to accommodate Barkley. Which seems to leave Hourihane as the one who loses out when all are fit and available.
Christie had some good performances, thinking the game against Germany, if I remember correct. I think he was involved in an important goal or two (maybe an OG where he shot) and hit the woodwork once or twice from full back.
But he was out of his depth playing centre midfield. I remember watching it in Lansdowne and he was trying to press and restrict the opposition from having time on the ball but he had no sense positionally and no experience in making the decision between which of two players to close down. The angles were often not right either giving an easy out-pass for the player. While in possession, there were a few bad giveaways of the ball.
Not his fault at all, he worked hard and he tried but, like he said, he hadn’t trained or played there since he was 14.
I don't always subscribe to this conclusion of "club signs player, Irish player in jeopardy" which I think we are very prone to doing as Irish supporters.
Villa played 4-3-3 their last game out. Jack Grealish played as part of the front three. Last season did he not tend to play on the left of the middle three? Interesting timing for him to move there on the back of a) Gareth Southgate stating he doesn't fit into his team b) him getting his England debut and c) him signing a long term deal.
If this signing is being made to accommodate Grealish moving further forward then Hourihane is in the exact same position as last year i.e. himself, Luiz, McGinn and one more challenging for three spots. However, it is now slightly easier for him given that Grealish isn't there as nailed on for one of the berths.
I do think that Hourihane has goodwill in the bank and it is clear that he contributes enough to warrant racking up at least 20 league starts.
All in all, Barkley is a different type of player (more similar to McGinn?) and might reduce Hourihane's appearances but there are mitigating circumstances. I think he'll be fine. He's come good with an assist and/or a goal most of the times he has needed to.
Also a decent chance that Barkley doesn’t work out, track record isn’t amazing, either with injuries or off field stuff. Villa made the same attempt last year with Danny Drinkwater. Obviously, he isn’t as much of a train wreck but I wouldn’t think he’s a sure thing...
Id agree with this, Barkley has been over rated his entire career. He was talked about as the next Rooney as a young player and hes never lived up to expectations. Almost feels a bit like Jesse Lingard at this stage, people think of him as a young player. Hes nearly 27 and is very averageQuote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
Yeah but Christie doesn't have the skillset for it and I think O'Neill did it in part to show that it doesn't work. I remember there was a discussion here years back about Stephen Hunt playing centre mid and I didn't think he had the skills either, but Doherty and Coleman I think do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
It's not about right back = automatically a centre mid, it's the skills they actually show on the field that demonstrate they can adapt. And Doherty in particular I think is a guy who sees the game as a big picture.
I’m not entirely convinced it would work. I’d be willing to see it tried. Not sure if he’d have the positional sense to play in the middle. Think he also works better with the game in front of him, being able to see the picture and time his runs.
He’s a good dribbler and runner in a 1v1, useful attributes for a full back. He has more fullback pace than winger pace (high top speed, but acceleration isn’t phenomenal). And he’s a good crosser of the ball.
Strength, aerial ability and decent tackling could all translate to the midfield with work, and there was genuine intelligence in his choice of passing and runs for Wolves, intricate one-twos, varying an underlap and an overlap, stuff you rarely see from a fullback. Those are the things that make me believe he has a chance. But if I had to put money on it, I’d think he’d struggle there and ultimately underwhelm.
He sees the big picture as a wing back not a central midfielder ~ ~ Tis a complete different position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Well yeah but I was rather working on the proposition that some players are not limited to one position for their entire lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
What would have been the purpose for this? It was his experiment after all, not like the fans/media were clamouring for Cyrus Christie to run our midfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
He'd have 50 caps for us and would walk into our first XI right now!Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Maybe.... Still doesnt change anything I said!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
True but you're setting a low bar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Stephen Ward got 50 caps for us.
Shur he has 33 caps for England as it is. And played in nearly 80 games for Chelsea over the last 2 seasons too. Even if his ceiling is 'very average' I'd say I'm not alone among Villa fans in thinking that unless he is in fact Drinkwater MkII he marks a definite step upwards in recruitment compared to last summer at the club.
Shows everybody how clever he is. MON was a good manager but petulant.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Literally nobody was calling for Christie to play in midfield. By playing him there O’Neill wasn’t proving anyone wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Fair enough. I kind of got wrapped up between that and the three at the back he disastrously tried a couple of times.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Except maybe himself ! Maybe it was a further sign that football had moved on from O’Neill's time. I can remember both Mark Lawrenson and Paul McGrath ( obviously players levels above Cyrus Christie ) doing jobs for Ireland in Midfield but would they be able to do such a job in modern football = = Highly doubtful !Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
He is not even a good right backQuote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Barkley in, Hourihane out, for Villa this evening.
Manager says Barkley gets the nod due to his physicality. I can see his point- Hourihane is probably not combative enough for the likes of Wijnaldum and Keita, not to mention Firmino and Salah putting the squeeze on.
Barkley is doing very well tonight. He is getting beyond the Liverpool midfielders and defenders and creating chances. Grealish is also playing further forward so it should be Barkley, McGinn and Hourihane into two spots in front of Luiz. Hourihane will get a lot of games against teams that sit deeper. And, in Watkins, it looks like they have a man to capitalize from the supply Hourihane would give.
That's a battle I cannot see him winning. Let's be honest - this was not a good week for Hourihane to lose his place in the team. If they score seven the week you're not playing, you're probably going to be waiting for injuries and suspensions to kick in before you get your place back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Not a good week? Doesn't make it a particularly bad week. He wasn't an undisputed starter last season. Villa have started the season well. They will surely be better than last season. They may improve this season beyond a level at which Hourihane can get his place in the team. For now, yeah Barkley had a good game but Villa were always going to improve their side this window. And there will be a lot of games. They will have to rotate. He will get games this season.
Starts in the Premier League, getting a goal and an assist while he's at it, get's called up by his country, sees his team win 7-2 against the league champions, all before picking up his weekly £30,000 paycheque.
I don't know about you, but I've had worse weeks, personally...
Made me laughQuote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
Has anyone checked if Ollie Watkins has an Irish granny?
Where did it all go wrong ? ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
I'm sure there aren't many bad weeks as a Premier League footballer however, as I said, it was a bad week to lose his place in the team with Villa scoring 7 without him. Realistically as long as Grealish, McGinn and Barkley are available to Villa he won't be a first team regular starter, which he had been set to be this coming season,up until this week.
I can see your point but I just don't think he had been set for that. It was inevitable that they would add to their squad and if you're Dean Smith adding to your squad then it's difficult not to improve on Hourihane. I couldn't see him as being a first choice or undisputed regular (he wasn't really that last season). Filling in for Barkley and McGinn when they're injured or suspended or rested (as will be more common this season) is not a bad position for Hourihane. And he'll serve a purpose against teams that sit deep.
Next summer his contract is up at villa but I would like to sign him for another 2 years with villa - maybe not as a starter but he's a great back up and coming into games with his set plays
Hourihane an unused sub again tonight, only 89 minutes of game time across 2 matches (both defeats) for him since the transfer window closed. I wonder if he'll be linked with any moves in January, he doesn't really seem to be in the first team plans at Villa now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
He's not good enough to get into that Villa side, who have moved on significantly since last season. Bar injuries he wont be getting many minutes there.
Will Grealish be going to Man Utd ? I suppose Villa would get a lot of dough to replace Grealish if he does. Will Grealish behave himself if he does get such a move ?
It's telling that Villa were cannon fodder last year and Hourihane was a regular, and he can't get a sniff now that they're playing well.
Do we care? He's not our player. If he moves on and Hourihane gets more game-time, that's a win for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear