I think I can see what o'neill is thinking. Good partnerships are emerging around the field. We created 4 great chances against a very good team. It's early days.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I think I can see what o'neill is thinking. Good partnerships are emerging around the field. We created 4 great chances against a very good team. It's early days.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Inner gimp i think its called isn't it? In golf Bernhard Langer was the first to bring up the Yips, I dont think this is Longs thing i just think he overthinks it and hasnt the practice/experience of saying rihgt im going to go here always or go to this corner, he just isn't sure. I agree with you and whoever else said that delorean sees it differently but Long just didnt seem comfortable never does in those where he gets too much time to think. I also think the first goal was more out of luck than class and precision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Its not about meyelr being able head the ball or taking his chances, there is definitely a correlation between the increase in the number of LOI players and the decrease in our quality. Maybe because we don't have the same coming through we now need to rely on these whereas in the past we havent. Its not about individuals either, its the collective.
Thanks for explaining DI, thats exactly what i meant :P
Give Shane a break lads.
Enter... Benteke...
http://balls.ie/wp-content/uploads/2...entekemiss.gif
yes, he simply "let" the ball go out of play!!Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
in that move keane took the ball brilliantly in his stride without having to check his run. he then had the option to shoot early (risky) or go around the keeper and roll the ball into an empty net. he opted for the latter and took it a little too far. sky commentary at the time said he should have shot early but its easy from a tv studio and an armchair
No good to me without an irish proxy blah blah blah......Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I wouldn't be saying in MON we trust if I wasn't certain SSL was in his plans.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Do I have to spell it out? Read between the lines!!!!!!!!
Irelands best CBs are SSL, Dunne and JOSh.
The rest can do a job now and then but not at the level of those three who are proven.
As for Wilson being a CB don't be silly!
I know my footie!
Then explain why we're better than we were six years ago. And how much of, say, Damien Duff's superior technical ability do you attribute to his upbringing and how much to the tutelage of notorious total football aficionado Ray Harford?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
The doc doth protest too much methinks.Quote:
Originally Posted by the doc
The whole game is up on sharingirish torrents,Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
i.e. for real fans who care enough:rolleyes:
Nonsense. The real fans are all still in their seats at Lansdowne Road, passionately debating the finer points of Keogh's positional awareness and McCarthy's stomach for the midfield battle with the diehards from YBIG. You wouldn't find any of them around here or downloading torrents.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I hadn't heard of the inner gimp. I like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Correlation does not imply causation. As you can see from this graph:
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/w...t-11.25.24.png
Sharp dips in the early 90s, corresponding to the Jack era, and another dip in 2002, corresponding to qualification for Japan/Korea. Another dip in 2009 when we came so close in Paris. Clearly, Ireland's World Cup performances strongly correlate with UK corporation tax revenue.
First and foremost, I haven't been beating Murphy's drum at all, unless you call linking articles about him "beating his drum". It would actually be a professional footballer, Danny Higginbotham, Mick Mac and MON who were doing it - if anyone. Yes, Murphy does deserve credit for creating a goalscoring opportunity in his limited time on the pitch when substitutions had drained the life out of the game and Serbia dominated possession. It's a thankless task; and yes, Walters does deserve criticism for not possessing enough of a goalscoring threat or any kind of reaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
I don't have a preference for either Walters or Murphy. Walters is playing regularly in the PL which is advantageous because only about a dozen or so Irish players are guaranteed starts every week.
Walters is a cart horse and he may serve a purpose in certain circumstances where we are under the cosh and/or defending a lead but he offers nothing from an attacking perspective. I keep hearing about these spaces he opens up? Give me one example. He does not belong on the wing because he has less pace, less crossing ability and less nous than other options. There are better options up front too as Walters frankly is poor in the air where Long, Doyle and even Murphy excel, his touch isn't up to snuff and his shooting speaks for itself.
He was bullied, barely won a single header and was completely neutralised against Kazakhstan - and most of our qualifying games for that matter. It was Long and Doyle who saved us in that game but people seem to judge Doyle solely on extenuating circumstances at Wolves and forget how good he has been for Ireland.
Another thing too. Walters was good against Austria in fairness but he was partly at fault for the Alaba goal. He shouldn't have been left on for 90 minutes, when he is flogged for 90 minutes, 38 games a season at Stoke, but in fairness, fault for that would lie with Trapattoni.
Long and Doyle up front is worth pursuing. They were fantastic against Oman. I know.
Not playing Stokes was a complete waste though. I agree O'Neill should have been more clever with his substitutions. Long should have been brought off for Stokes and Hoolahan kept on while we were still being gifted goalscoring opportunities.
We will never know what Stokes can or can't offer as long as he never starts and when he does, it's on the wing.
Long and Doyle is definitely worth considering. I still have faith in Doyle.
I wonder where our QPR players will be next year. They lost a staggering 65 million quid last financial year! QPR that is, not Dunne and Doyle. Even Keith Gillespie wouldn't manage that.
O'Neill said he took Hoolahan off to protect him from injury as he hadn't been getting much game time. There was no Brady or Reid to step in.
If Keith had that much, he certainly could manage to lose it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
You know I can explain this. As contractors increase and the amount of work being conducted by contractors the national income declines as the taxing system doesn't know of the co-existnce of contractor corporation tax and contrationar income.
But I think you have it right ; )
EDIT:Whoops thats not what that graph is saying! I thought it was national income tax!
Forde, Wilson, Dunne, Oshea, Coleman, whelan, McCarthy, Brady, Long/McClean, Hoolahan, keane.
That 11 is decent. But after that we fail miserably. Whats going to happen us after 2016? I think Long deserves a chance on the wing and run the channels, he isnt good enough to fox in the box or finish, but if he runs the channels he can get in behind and hooligan(yes) can pick him out, he then squares to robbie, and robbie gets a hat trick.
Seriously though i think long for mcclean is a good idea. Behind that we are very very light.
May be he was at a meeting with his solicitor.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
You guys do realise strikers miss
chances?!
It's not all doom & gloom. We had a second string CB pairing & Ward at LB. Put O'Shea, Dunne & St Ledger back in and the defence improves considerably.
Hoolahan was a real positive & I'm pleased the team tried to play some football. It's still early days for the team, in effect it's only MON's third pre-season game & he is still trying to shape the squad around his way of thinking.
Long is a menace & has been terrorizing PL defences this season. If we go 4-5-1 then he will start because of his pace. He obviously missed two chances last night but hopefully he learns from this. He had more time than he thought but if he scores 1 goal for every 3 chances I'd still take if.
McCarthy needs to start imposing himself on games more & once he does then we only need to find 1 more player in the middle of the park to have a very strong midfield 3 partnership. Whelan isn't the long term solution & I haven't saw enough of Meyler to make a judgement.
We have a solid 7 out 10 every game goalkeeper (wish Forde would work in his kicking though!), a solid defence, Robbie Keane & Shane Long. This should be
more than enough to edge out Scotland.
If you play Long out wide and Keane centre forward, then you have to deal with the problem of getting the ball to stick up front. Most teams who play one striker make it a strong guy who can hold up possession, whether they're playing on the deck or route one, like Ibra and Lewandowski. Teams like Barca and Man City (sometimes) are the exception, and I don't think we're in that class that we can play without a physically competitive striker.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Also amidst the showy flicking of stopwatches, measuring the speed of Forde's reflexes and the ever popular Wardy Watch ,Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
there was a more important factor to debate. There was a potential embarrassment factor in how was it to be explained that O'Neill was treading water already? After a hasty conference, it was agreed that the best way to explain this, was that the "Trap had all the luck" argument could be dug up and flogged one more time, brainy lot these folk.
But this time with the addendum, "Trap had all the luck as he had our best players available to him in their prime".
And O'Neill finding himself in this unenviable position, has to do with making the best out of a bad lot.
It will be interesting over the next few months to observe the mental gymnastics some have to indulge in once O'Neill's honeymoon period is over and he begins to leave out the causes celebré in favour of more reliable options. I'll give it about 12 months before they start hitting MON with charges of senility and Trap's era begins to be seen as something of a golden era. God forbid O'Neill takes us away from home and fails to get a result.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Shaker, do you think we're being harsh on Long? I don't.
Have we been harsh on Long for the x number of years quite a few of us have felt he leaves too many chances out there? It's a shame because otherwise he's a super player with a super attitude, and an even better accent.
I think a couple of things might still play into his hands though. If he is told he is the main man by MON he may feel less pressure, and if he gets one or two goals more might follow. I'd keep the faith because he's a cut above the others, bar Keane and Doyle.
I don't like the idea of him playing wide right. He did a good job once or twice before but other times looked laboured and ineffective.
The consensus of ex pat Irish here today seemed to be abject depression. They were talking about it in Butchers Block, the last Irish grocer in NYC.
Are there many YBIG members in Butcher's Block? I wouldn't take them seriously otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
I though I would take a look at things statistically
Shots per goal
O'Suarez 5.27
Long 6.3
Coleman 5
Brady 2.56
Walters 10
O'Shea 2.2 :)
Meyler 4.5
Ireland 2.1 ;)
I have not taken into account sub appearance as I was not sure how to deal with them, Stephen Ireland has a lot of them.
However there seems maybe to be a case for playing Ireland Brady and O Shea up front.
However Longs finishing is not that much worse then Suarez's.
Also you may have good looking stats simply becasue you never get into a position to miss!!
Just to throw in a few more:-
O'Messi 4.5
O'Ronaldo 10!!!!!!!!!! (the Irish Walters!!)
O'Rooney 5.8
O' Van Persie 5.8
O'Ronaldo 5.8 (stats from a different site)
So... for a striker Long's 6.3 is not that bad, and I don't think he takes penalties which squews(sp?) things a bit
however the ratio of about 5.8 seems to crop up a lot, not far off Longs 6.3 so you can
expect to see him miss 6 for every one he scores, and it is pretty unlikely he will improve on that
as he is 'up there with the best' or thereabouts.
Not too sure what to make of all that but I thought I would throw it out there,
Squarez gets a lot of goals because he has a lot of shots, but then LIverpool
concede a lot of goals too.
I should add that Walters stats and some others are just from this season so there is very high margin
of error there as there was with Ronaldo's first stat, I think he missed a few penalties.
One final thought, Long's one goal from 3 shots is actually brilliant!!!!!!!!!!
I think people are being harsh on Long. Not sure why he's so maligned here. He is a smashing all round player who gets himself into great positions but misses some chances. Not perfect of course but he's an excellent starting option for us to have both now and when Keane is gone. Give him a break!
He's not being maligned... a perceived flaw in his game is being discussed rationally. Nobody is saying, "to hell with that Long, he couldn't finish his dinner". As far as I have seen, everybody agrees he's a smashing player but it's a shame he can't be a bit more clinical, as he's clearly got the ability to take more chances than he does.
Taken from a three minute forum search...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Maybe you wouldn't call that drum-beating, but when a poster brings up a player repeatedly (from pre-squad announcement to during the match), then I think it's justified for anyone to say 'hmmm, I think TOWK rates Daryl Murphy'. It's was particularly noticeable to me because I don't rate him. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
It's fine you know, if you like the player - no problem. But your posting goes beyond merely reporting what Murphy's saying.
As for the rest of your post, I don't agree but that's largely been gone over. In terms of movement, I think in most games Walters runs and constant availability for the ball allows Robbie/Shane/whoever to get an extra bit of space in behind. Walters likes to show short or wide, he (usually) is able to hold the ball up and give the other striker space to move into. I also think he's a mite smarter, as a player, than most give him credit for. If you disagree, well that's fine too.
I'd have been happy to see Stokes come on, and I'd agree with anyone who was a bit horrified by the prospect of Walters and Murphy together. Strange one. Maybe, as someone mentioned, this court case was affecting him.
On the Doyle front, I'd have him in the squad. Five strikers if we can afford it - Robbie, Shane, Doyle, Walters, Stokes. But there's a huge question mark as to whether he'll ever be effective as he once was. And if O'Neill and Keane decide to go forward with a one-up-front attack, then five strikers (and Doyle) in a squad might be bankrupt.
That attempted chip made me hope Roy gives him a boot up the hole. Strikers like Suarez, Van Persie and Robbie get to try things like that because they've banked up enough goodwill, but not Shane. Just put it in the net, think of chipping the keeper later. I'd love for someone to sit down our strikers (bar Robbie) and just say 'goals!' over-and-over again, Clockwork Orange style.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
I think it may have been good for Long to miss those chances. Especially in a friendly. He might give himself the kick in the hole he needs to stop the fancy sh!t and just score the goal. I'm talking about the third chance more so. He showed great pace to get into the position for the second effort.
But had he scored that chip he might always go for the fancy dan stuff
One thing I think we definitely learned from the game is we don't have much strength in depth.
When Hoolahan went off there was nobody to replace him and his type of play. Meyler, Walters, Murphy, Keogh, Ward are all nearly good enough for international football but not quite I fear. All good grafters but don't have that extra special ability needed
I agree Fixer, especially with your appraisal of those players, though maybe it's worth mentioning that Gibson, Brady and Reid will be back (fingers crossed) for the proper stuff - and ideally the end of season games (Brady just had a serious groin op so probably not May/June, dunno about Gibson).
Dunne, O'Shea, SSL and probably Clark can enhance the centre of defence. Each is a cut above Keogh and Delaney probably is too. I trust MON with centre-backs. I expect Pearse may get another shot soon too.
Clark, a PL regular, is likely to be given a chance to claim the left back role.
Wilson might yet find a home in midfield if he is crowded out of the CB role. He looks like he likes being on the ball.
McGeady should play better with club games under his belt. Coleman is unlikely to be as sloppy as on Wednesday. Long's finishing won't get worse and Keane still has a big role to play.
I think there is still a case for optimism and also a little bit of wriggle room to tolerate an injury or two.
I'm begining to wonder why O'Shea was brought in and Dunne not. A few snippets from O'Neill suggests he doesn't think Dunne is physically able for it anymore, perhaps we are all wrong and Dunne might not be recalled at all and hence why he was trying to see his best CB pairing. I hope thats not the case but I am a little confused as to what O'Neills thinking is here.
I genuinely think Dunne will figure early on if fit. He has played regularly at QPR (ever present?) and has a hard run of games coming up, hence his rest. I think MON will recognise that his experience and leadership ought to help us defend corners better and just generally enhance centre of defence. JOS is also important but had played a cup final on the Sunday.
Whilst Keogh didn't fluff his lines he did nothing to suggest he should be anything more than 4th or 5th choice by September.
I don't think Dunne will play barring an emergency.
Has there been any explanation by the management as to why our midfield were so deep and why were so poor in the second half?
Serbia are a very decent side - but christ we gave them all the in the world on the ball in the second half - shocking stuff
It could be that we started too fast amd the players were knackered out by the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by back of the net
I think the Irish rugby team had a habit of doing this which may have returned recently.
Or maybe they are not eating enough chips pre-match.
Long was having his chips on the pitch whcih tends to back that theory up.
One of those comments was in response to someone saying Adam Rooney is better than Daryl Murphy.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Another was about David McGoldrick. I said "Penny for the thoughts of" because he's an Irish striker and I wonder what he would think about his teammate (who plays in the same position) and someone who has tenuous links to our country declaring. Murph encouraged it so what does my opinion matter on that?
"Why not just call up Daryl Murphy?" God knows what context that comment came out of. I was probably rambling on about Cox or Walters and Murphy was incidental to the point.
The final Murphy related comment. Of course I'm going to comment on him and give my thoughts on his call-up. There were no other call-ups to debate.
So I'm not a fan of Murphy. But yes, he is hardly any worse then Keogh, Cox, Sammon, Walters, Folan or Best and he can play in two positions.
Walters. I just judge him on his lack of goals, inability to cross the ball, poor passing, poor heading, poor touch, poor pace and his making me smh when counter attacks go to waste because he isn't intuitive enough, show for the ball or offer pace.
He is a workhorse and it has its merits when used properly but he was starting games he shouldn't have been starting in positions he wasn't suited to.
He reminds me of Kilbane. He runs all day and the fans like him, and he can be hard for defenders to deal with because he never gives up but by God it has its limitations.
And I can believe I may be hard on Walters but people are similarly hard on Murphy and Sammon before him. Murphy only has the one start at the end of the day. Long too. People go on about his goalscoring rate but he has 11 in 44, which is a record of 1 in every 3 odd starts.
Yes he missed sitters and yes it's frustrating but his movement was excellence and his awareness and pace made those chances (along with Hoolahan). Would we get those chances with Keane? Be realistic. If Keane scores (and I'm not saying he won't) it will be tap ins.
And speaking of wasted chances, I can think of chances Keane should have put away in Slovakia and France directly off the top of my head.