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Who said anything about you bringing us loads of money??? LOL. The game V mons was probably one of the lowest attended. :D I'd be more annoyed about losing 3 points and 6 goals. But mainly because ye've made a farce of the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicme
There will be two weekends now, where all the teams will be playing and CCFC will have no fixture. The Bye weeks were frustrating last year and I thought we were done with them only for mons to re-introduce them. Ye're a disgrace.
yeah a total disgrace coz we didn't bankrupt ourselves and deny the children of our community a chance to play football.
Far worse for who ? The rest of the league yes ? For monaghan's creditors surely not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Its actually quite refreshing for a football club to act in a socially responsible manner for a change - so they made mistakes, but people turning on them for trying to make a go of it is a little rich - given the histroy of clubs going bust in this league and history of leaving creditors up and down the country high and dry.
Jebus sullane - thats too strong - people in glasshouses and all that. You could be accused of having a short memory at the very least.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
Short memory? Are you talking about Dublin City? The last team to pull out mid-season?Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Yes Dublin City, as we have a glorious record of finanical management in Cork.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
I remember in the not too distant past only for the good grace of a certain Drogheda United postponing a fixture we would have had to pull out mid season.
Fair enough that Monaghan made mistakes and its a bummer for the league but you have to at least respect the reasons why they have done what they have - calling them a disgrace etc is unwarranted.
Why not? They've treated the league with contempt. TNB was a disgrace too BTW. We still saw out the season though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Its a bit more than a bummer. We were due to play them after the 2 week break. When they pulled out the club lost a huge chunk of cash on the gate (€15k I have heard a figure of on that game). We only had to play them once at home this season, other clubs would have to play them twice. Just becasue they are out dosent mean wages wont have to be paid for. Galway might have been **** but they fulfilled their fixtures, somthing that Roddy has said he would have liked to have done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Contempt ? I'm guessing you know the ins and outs of the last few months up there if you can easily make a statement like that. I doubt Mons came to that decision lightly and while I repeat many mistakes were made I doubt any of them were not made in good faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
I wasn't refering to TNB above but as seen as you have brought him up; - One of the reasons TNB was such a disgrace was the way he left so many club employee's, players and businesses around Cork city and county out of pocket. There were some significant sums of money, not to mention the revenue issues. Monies which will never be recouped.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
Fair play to Monaghan for showing some integrity at least and not just continuing to run up debt even as an amateur club.
Sullanefc, for pragmatism I admire Mons, as I've stated earlier. They did the right thing for the local creditors and their reputation. This is a situation that happens across the world, here in Russia it's not uncommon. Clubs are realistic and if they mess up or are messed up or run into unexpected difficulties, they fold before they go too far - they don't look to the local government for a digout (like Real) or to rich benefactors (too many to mention) and the supporters simply can't afford to run it themselves. A decent 2nd division (3rd tier) club here needs $1-1.5million for team expenses alone (player and coach wages, travel). Given that most bring in under 5,000 through the gates for a home game and that tickets are less than $3, it doesn't take a genius to work out that unless there are other sources clubs can get in trouble. Some years ago I was looking forward to getting out to Irkutsk and visiting Lake Baikal, the club I was with were going to play them, had put a non-refundable deposit down to hire a plane and then bloody Irkutsk fold and pull out of the league. The reason? Their main source of funding (an airline) went bankrupt and rather than not paying players and other creditors, they shut up shop. Last season Sochi did the same. It's brave, pragmatic, and if it was your club you'd be proud of them acting in such an honourable manner.
Would you rather Mons run up further debts, then leave the local Johns Ambulance or Order of Malta out of pocket?
Whats to stop 4 or 5 clubs pulling out of the league with 6-7 games to go and they're out of contention for euro places/title and the finances are looking a bit iffy. Clubs could simply throw their hat at it if things aren't going their way and then rejoin next season. The league could be cut down to 7-8 clubs for the end of the season. Would mons have pulled out if they were top of the league? My eye.
My gripe is one of sporting integrity. If mons run up debts, fine. Go amateur and pay them back the following season. The reality is though, they should not even have applied to the league if they could not pay their way this year.
I phrased the original question badly I suppose, what I meant was did the players buy their own kit, or did they have the jerseys during the mid-season break and just kept them, or was it supplied by MUFC or the PFAI? MagicMe answered that the club gave Roddy kit for the game. I hope McGuinness acknowledges that the next time he goes off on one during MNS or on twitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean South
Re: an earlier question about community outreach, I'm certain I saw stuff in the Northern Standard about primary school coaching in the county, and Gortakeegan is used for things like the Blackwater 10k run. Remember too that this is thick GAA country, I know that the biggest boys secondary school in the town (ie the main target audience) had (has?) a big pro-GAA/anti-soccer bias at the official level. The club didn't give up but you definitely have to acknowledge that certain people would actively block attempts by Monaghan United to increase its profile (its a factor but not a total excuse).
Just interesting to see again the football bubble, where the goal difference of Cork is more important than the debts to local businesses. Maybe this is the thing that is holding Irish football back, too much Me Fein-ism (I suppose I'd be guilty of it too) and too little long-term, bigger picture thinking?
Sporting integrity. If the local businesses meant so much to mons then they shouldn't have entered the league this year with such a budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicMon
youre being ridiculously harsh sullanefc. Since Olliebourne, no club enters a season of football with negative intent and the FAI has veto over proposed budgetary submissions if they feel they are weak or unsubstantiated.
"the best laid plans of mice and mons" and all that. Sometimes sh1t happens.
Anybody running a business (i.e. mons board) should have the cop on not to run with a weak or unsubstantiated budget, and should not be depending on the FAI to give them the nod. That said, the FAI are not innocent in all this.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Football isn't like other businesses. There are more variables and it genuinely is very difficult. MUFC have a good record of getting it right, but this year things went wrong and they decided to protect the club overall rather than the league. Unfortunate but understandable.
Whats your gripe Sullanfc? Seem to be on a vendetta there lad.
If we were able to sustain league football we would have, not as if we just got together and said "ah sure we'll pull out will we, weren't able to afford tea bags today"
Answer this then, the club have everything agreed, budget works etc. Suddenly the main employer in a town goes out of business, what then? Go amateur? Do you know how much it costs to run an amateur club?Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
There has been some talk about Monaghan facing up to their debts with local creditors which leads me to ask how much can they have owed to local businesses? the Mondogs suppliers excepted.
Surely you would have asked for cash upfront knowing that this senario could happen in the current climate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
Terry, I've yet to deal with a sponsor who'll pay cash up front, even in good times (when the sum is more than 3 figures). Normally it's paid in installments.
Exactly Spud
Remember a budget for a season is only an estimate nothing is set in stone. Sponsors would be expected being on TV(not great) every week and having half decent crowds. Just didn't happen I'm afraid with the current climate and location of the club?
The same climate as the last 4 years. That can't be a surprise to anybody any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morginho
No one is saying there aren't mitagating factors in play, but no one can deny Mons board over stretched. And given what's happened to many LOI clubs in recent years, thats pretty unforgivable.
But theres a big difference financially being in the Premier Div compared to First Division. Higher wages, licensing, etc. In a place like Monaghan crowds won't grow to match these costs so your always going to be at a loss. You'd need min 1000 per home match for it to be sustainable and that just wasn't happening. Plus look at the money you get for your finishing place in the PL compared to the enterance fee???
I can see how the recent move, and the sudden economic crash this year caught ye out alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morginho
*Error to much sarcasm* CRASH
Why higher wages. You set the wages, not the division. See, this is the problem we're talking aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by Morginho
Well if you don't up your wages even a little you can't attract PL quality players to try and stay in the Division. You don't start the season saying right we're going to sign a load of amateurs and just survive this season. Obviously we didn't know at the beginning that this would happen
You set your playing budget on realistic figures to see out the season in a reasonable state. I can't believe anyone would defend what happened with trying to be competitive when it killed your senior team. It's mindboggling to be honest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morginho
Yes you do if there is any chance that anything else would kill your club.
I can't believe that. It's like Shamrock Rovers raiding the Atletico Madrid side so they can compete at Europa League level.
While I agree that Mons have made mistakes, the castigating of them here is over the top.
From what I've read on the thread so far Mons increased wages in line with projections of income over the season. Now as long as those projections were reasonable and on the conservative side, there has been no evidence to the contrary, then is this not a case of hoping for 200/250 extra people per home game through the gates that has not materialised? - Is this unforgivable? Does that make them a disgrace ? Would each and every one of us here made the same reasonable assumption at the start of the season ? Hindsight is the world's best judgement tool. I don't think we know enough about the figures to criticise them as much as people are.
Would anyone be able to give an indication of what percentage players wages were of overall Monaghan spending (budget) for the season and per week/month. Do fans of other clubs be able to give rough estimate of same for their teams as well. thanks
The fact they can't see out the season is evidence enough. If they had a mid season crisis and had to cut wages/ playing staff/ go amateur is one thing, failing to fulfill fixtures is quite another imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
If they were reasonable projections the club would still be in the league. And 250 extra people per home game would be more than a 50% increase for Monaghan. There is no way they would have dreamed of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
I posted previously that I was told that Monaghan budgeted for more (multiples of it) in a main sponsorship deal than Pats bring in. Reliable source
If its true than that blows the 'reasonable' myth out of the water.
Many multiples of Pats?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
That's not a credible statement to me. Surely someone on the licencing committee can look at that and say - Monaghan are projecting sponsorship money - with a yet unnamed sponsor - and that figure is many multiples of the entire sponsorship of St.Patricks Athletic?
If that was the sort of pie-in-the-sky financial model being employed then you could dismiss Monaghan's claims out of hand - but does anyone really believe that was the sort of thing going on ? Do Monaghan have a history of this type of financial mis-management ????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I just wonder if both of you had seen the budget at the start of the season - would you dismiss it out of hand like you are doing now with the benefit of hindsight. You nor I know the details of the budget - yet ye are quick to pass judgement now that its all gone t1ts up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
€160k was the figure btw
Per season ? or over how many years ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
If Mons were allowed budget for anything near that in a main sponsor than the league is doomed. Licencing will fail.
That's kind of like saying Greece will need a bailout.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid