We lost to the WC semi-finalists and Copa America champions 3-2 in a friendly playing our second string side. Hardly the same as losing to Armenia in a competitive game by two clear goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
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We lost to the WC semi-finalists and Copa America champions 3-2 in a friendly playing our second string side. Hardly the same as losing to Armenia in a competitive game by two clear goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
I quote two bogey competitive results, to counter your two quoted competitive results, and you throw back two friendly results, one of which we played a second string team against the semi-finalists of the world cup with a 99% squad?Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
on the team in question...Our missed penalty and missed sitter by Robbie, as opposed to little clear cut chance for them, suggests to me at least, that we should (not could) have won. That's buggar all to do with underrating them. I don't want to lost to them either obviously.
I won't try and debate anymore with you, we're obviously at different ends of the spectrum. Apologies to everyone else for the tangent, and I'll stop regardless now.
I thought the final result was 1-1 but I may be wrong and we qualified for the WC afterall and the Henry goal was just a dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
It's 1-1 in the record books I am afraid.
Isn't it at the discretion of UEFA to let whoever they want in. See Israel.
Isreal was a special case after many of the AFC countries refused to play them (over the whole Palestine thing; Iranian sportspeople are banned from competing against Israelis, for example)
Personally, I wouldn't do anything till the group (and if we're in one) play-off is over. If we don't make the play-off, for me it's bye-bye Trap. If we do make the play-off then you have to take the group on it's merits. If we're in the play-offs by being undefeated in the autumn and losing on the head to head with Russia then that's unfortunate but probably acceptable. Then it depends who we're up against.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
If Trap decides he wants to head off into the sunset because they won't offer him a contract at an acceptable stage, then I'd be prepared to let him wander. You'd have to imagine Tardelli would take it if offered to him at that stage - he's not going to get many better offers.
It's hard to know isn't it? I'd assume that if we get to the Eu
given where we were in late 2007, the players we have available etc i think trap has turned us into a decent side. anyone else (just look a the names mentioned last time) available to us would be a big step down imo. also, it took trap a while to mould us into the way he wanted us to play and my fear is that a new manager coming will not have the time to do so before the wc qualifiers start. trap is interested so we should not do anything that risks us losing himQuote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
First up, yeah I'd agree he's turned us into a decent side - and the previous manager showed that with the wrong guy at the helm how easy it is to fall a few rungs on the ladder.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
I think though, maybe your fears are a little ill-founded?
Is Trap going to take any other job before the end of this campaign if its still in the balance? Can't see it myself.If he does leave at the end of the contract, it will give the FAI pretty much the winter to get a new guy in, and still have 5/6 matches to get a system moulded before the onset of the new campaignNor should we be committing ourselves to someone who isn't the right fit, just to placate him - I reckon that's a fair observation. I suppose it's up to each of us to decide at the end of the campaign whether he justifies another campaign. Success would be qualifying for the Euros and would merit another contract. Failure? well there's different types of failure, hopefully we won't be discussing that.
they had at least as long to get a successor in for kerr and we ended up with stan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
they also had as long to get trap but it took the intervention of an Irish millionaire to lead them down that road and get someone of his quality.
i have no confidence whatsoever in the FAIs ability to replace trap with a manager who could get us through a tricky wc qualifying group. there is nil chance of us getting better than trap i am afraid
As many of us have said before, you only have the revisit the "New Ireland Manager" thread to see evidence that of the 40 or 50 names that came and went - noone was serious about taking the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
I'd agree that we'd do particularly well to better our current managerial situation. Tardelli appears to have a good raport with the players and that shouldn't be overlooked either. Trapp / Tardelli are a good team that's getting a good response from the players.
Exactly. It's at UEFA's discretion who they let in.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Yeah, fools.
Even Armenians admitted me they didn't really 'feel' European.
Though a brave few did enjoy watching The SPL!!!
Make of that what you will.
:rolleyes:
All those years of being shat on by Turks and Russians really raises one's tolerance levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Just had a look at the UEFA statutes: http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/...7_DOWNLOAD.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by Irwin3
On membership, they say:
Article 5
1. Membership of UEFA is open to national football associations situated in the continent of Europe, based in a country which is recognised by the United Nations as an independent state, and which are responsible for the organisation and implementation of football-related matters in the territory of their country.
2. In exceptional circumstances, a national football association that is situated in another continent may be admitted to membership, provided that it is not a member of the Confederation of that continent, or of any other Confederation, and that FIFA approves its membership of UEFA.
I don't know how exactly UEFA define the boundaries of Europe as that term has differing cultural, geographical and political connotations, but I'm sure Israel were able to offer an argument based on exceptional circumstances regardless. Australia moved from the OFC to the AFC a few years ago; the AFC was most likely deemed the second most suitable confederation for Australia after the OFC, geographically, whilst they pretty much needed a move from the OFC for competitive reasons. It obviously made economic sense for all involved as well.
Mohammed bin Hammam, the president of the AFC, outlined the reasoning:
Quote:
As well as being a developed football nation, Australia brings a developed economy and this is actually what we want in football. Besides Japan, Korea, China and Saudi Arabia if Australia joins the benefits are huge, this is what we're after.
Does this apply to Iranian footballers? Isn't that third-party interference?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The results mean little. The point is that they are a dangerous side in a very competitive group, and they mustn't be underrated. Too many have done it lately, and got their ars kicked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
We missed a penalty, it happens. Macedonia missed a penalty against us, and some other chances. Did they deserve to win?Quote:
on the team in question...Our missed penalty and missed sitter by Robbie, as opposed to little clear cut chance for them, suggests to me at least, that we should (not could) have won.
I remember us soaking up a lot of pressure in the last half an hour, desperately trying to cling on to what we came for. We did, so job done.
Generally, if you win at home and get good results away, you'll do the job you set out to do. Russia at home apart, we've done it in this group, despite the whinging and moaning from the press and general public.
I can't imagine how much fun it would be to go to Brazil and watch Ireland in the WC. It would be awesome. I would definitely come home with as up to that point diseases unknown to modern medicine. If we could only go to one of the next 2 I would sacrifice Ukraine and Poland for that in a heart beat.
As far as I know, yep. Here's an example of a swimmer pulling out of a heat at the swimming World Championships recently, for example, and here's the retribution from Israel calling for Iranians to be banned from major sports tournaments until "the regime in Tehran ends its ban on competing with Israeli athletes". It's happened in other sports too. Can't find an example of Israel playing Iran in football, but it probably helps that Israel was kicked out of AFC in 1974 (joining UEFA for the 82 qualifiers).Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
It's also because of the many flaws of the Israeli state.......
Trying to goad people into an argument there Ardee? ;)
Not at all.
Just think them, Turkey, the Kazaks and Armenia/Azerbaijan should all play in Asia, as you have to draw a line somewhere geographically.
The fact that some of them are flawed :rolleyes: is just incidental.
That's interesting. Hadn't been aware of that at all. Any idea what happened whilst Israel was an AFC member or maybe fate just never paired the two? Presumably, if Iran were ever drawn against Israel in competition and the Iranian government enforced its ban, that's when FIFA would intervene to suspend the Iranian football federation.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I don't know when the ban came into effect. Might have been in 1979's Islamic Revolution. I'd also have thought that the ban would be in protest at Israel's activities in the Middle East, which in modern times (and here I profess a fair bit of ignorance and could well be wrong) started with the likes of the Six Day War in 1967. So you're possibly talking a fairly narrow window between Israel being in the AFC and the ban being in effect.
Just doing a bit more reading on the history of the Israel Football Association. They were expelled from the AFC in 1974 under political pressure from the Arab members (although the association, in contrast to other opposing competitors, don't appear to have been the ones breaching any rules; questionable actions of the Israeli state aside), later competed with the OFC and then joined UEFA in 1991. It seems the period around and after 1967 was the cause of much of the hostility towards them within the AFC. A continuation of their membership was impractical and no longer feasible, so I'm guessing FIFA were content to see Israel alone in the wilderness rather than dishing out sanctions on half the members of the AFC.
Israel had joined the AFC in 1956 and Iran seemed content to compete against them up until 1968 at least: http://www.the-afc.com/en/features-a...an-cup-triumph
In fact, Iran even played against Isreal as late as September of 1974 as part of the 1974 Asian Games. Israel were awarded 2-0 victories against both North Korea and Kuwait, who refused to play against them, during the second group stage of that competition and then played Iran in the final for the last time in their history. Along with Kuwait and North Korea in football, other Arab nations, Pakistan and China refused to compete with Israeli competitors in other sports at the games. It appears other Arab and Asian football associations followed this lead and Israel soon found themselves banished by the AFC.Quote:
In 1968, Bayati was already 37 years old and coach of the Iranian national team. It was a year that remains a landmark for the sport in Iran as Bayati led Team Melli to victory in the AFC Asian Cup on home soil.
That fact that his team had beaten Israel 2-1 in the decisive match in the heart of Tehran – the Amjadie Stadium – made it all the more sweet.
“It was tense,” Bayati told the-afc.com of the match, which was the last for both teams in the round-robin format. “It was not long after the Six Day War and this added more fuel to the fire.
“One night before the match, there was a rumour that a rich Israeli had bought all the tickets so that we would not have any fans. It was very stressful,” added Bayati, one of many legendary coaches being honoured this year by AFC as part of the Asian Coaches Year celebrations.
“So, the government decided to open the gates and allow the people to enter the stadium. They filled every corner and even the running track around the pitch.”
I imagine FIFA would have an awful lot of bother on their hands nowadays however were Israel ever to rejoin the AFC or were they to somehow meet the likes of Iran in official competition.
North Korea taking the moral highground as usual :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I see Toshack has become the manager of Macedonia who just happen to be in Wales' group.
Could be a trend - hire a manager who has a few axes in his back pocket and itching to use them.
More importantly, how might it influence Macedonia's remaining fixtures in our current Euro 2012 qualification group? They play Russia in Moscow on the 2nd of September and Slovakia at home in the last round of games.
i was hoping they (the macedonians) might do us a favour. not much chance of that now.
I was hoping they'd get someone in who might provoke some early good performances but I'm not sure how inspirational they'll find Toshack. I wouldn't be surprised if they took something off Slovakia at home though, owing more to their home advantage and Slovakia's blowing hot and cold more than the manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
If Toshack's Wales is anything to go by, Macedonia will now lose most of their matches by 1 goal despite having 55%+ of the the possession as a matter of routine, whilst never failing to take maximum points from the smaller teams. But Macedonia have better strikers than us, so maybe it'll be different for him there.
Under Toshack we played Slovakia twice with results of 1-5 and 5-2. So anything could happen there.
Petter Hansson hasn't played international football in a while - not sure if he is injured or retired from international duty.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Andreas Granqvist didn't make the grade at Wigan.
Mellberg and Majstorovic are the first choice centre halves.
Albin Ekdal isn't really on the international radar yet. Doubtful if he'll get much game time with Juventus this season.
Hasn't really happened for Källström at international level. Sweden's creative force would be Anders Svensson (ex Southampton).
Sebastian Larsson and Elmander would be names familiar to those that follow the British leagues.
Individually Sweden aren't great. Dodgy goalie, full backs aren't great, centre half pairing are well into their thirties. Midfield has a couple of good players but no world beaters. Probably Sweden are strongest up front where they have plenty of options.
Was Hannson not on the bench for that 4-1 defeat in Holland ? I thought I saw him on the bench when I watched the game...
Yes you are correct. He was brought into the squad as they were short of defensive cover for that game. Don't think he has been included in any squad since and hasn't played a game in the last few years. Jonas Olsson (West Brom) and Granqvist would certainly be ahead of him in the pecking order.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
So much for Sweden. Lost to Hungary the last day and now its taken them 65mins to score against San Marino.
Yes, but we'll get humped by Deutschland....
i would of thought they would prefer to play in asia as they would be much more likely to ever qualifyQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Well, exactly. More fool them.
I think you'll find thee is a line drawn right down the middle of Istanbul.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
They are no great shakes at all. I would fear the Austrians as much as the Swedes and Alma-Alta could be as difficult away as Stockholm.Quote:
Originally Posted by eekers
Which would exclude all those four for starters....Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin