Eligibility Rules, Okay

Footballers arent renowned for their strong political convictions and I can easily see it becoming a case of northern born players opting to represent the South purely for the greater potential of qualifying for a major tournament, regardless of their religious background if this is already not the case. Similar to for instance Morgan and Joyce opting to play for England cricket team.
You can understand their frustrations because FIFA's ruling and that of the CAS has effectively doomed Northern Ireland to forever more just be footballing minnows.
Its sad when you think of what they acheived in the 80's getting to 2 world cups with all locally born players, but Worthington and the IFA, BT etc are just going to have to accept the new reality instead of bleeting about it every single time a player defects :weep:and coming out with the usual 'something needs to be done about this', because their fate's already been sealed, there's nothing they can do about it short of getting the UK government or the EU to make us change our constitution as a clause of the next economic bailout agreement!

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Originally Posted by Adrock

Footballers arent renowned for their strong political convictions and I can easily see it becoming a case of northern born players opting to represent the South purely for the greater potential of qualifying for a major tournament, regardless of their religious background if this is already not the case. Similar to for instance Morgan and Joyce opting to play for England cricket team.

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Possibly, but ultimately the reasons that have been given thus far have been simply because the players would rather represent their country.

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Originally Posted by Adrock

You can understand their frustrations because FIFA's ruling and that of the CAS has effectively doomed Northern Ireland to forever more just be footballing minnows.
Its sad when you think of what they acheived in the 80's getting to 2 world cups with all locally born players, but Worthington and the IFA, BT etc are just going to have to accept the new reality instead of bleeting about it every single time a player defects :weep:and coming out with the usual 'something needs to be done about this', because their fate's already been sealed, there's nothing they can do about it short of getting the UK government or the EU to make us change our constitution as a clause of the next economic bailout agreement!

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I strongly agree that there needs to be an acceptance of the reality, but none seems to be forthcoming. Nigel Worthington stated in an interview that "Northern Ireland people" don't give up, so it seems like it will remain an issue until those who don't want Irish nationals playing for the FAI get their way.

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Originally Posted by Adrock

Footballers arent renowned for their strong political convictions and I can easily see it becoming a case of northern born players opting to represent the South purely for the greater potential of qualifying for a major tournament, regardless of their religious background if this is already not the case. Similar to for instance Morgan and Joyce opting to play for England cricket team.

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I can see it being a consideration at a certain level of maturity alright but these guys will presumably have years of watching and supporting Ireland behind them before even comprehending such things as political conviction and professional ambition. Sense of identity would surely boast longer establishment than both. It seems to me that these players were content to be involved with the IFA setup but the tangible prospect of playing for Ireland stoked the very same enthusiasm you or I would feel if the FAI were to call and request (or in Don Given's case, demand) our shirt and boot size. I imagine qualifying for a major tournament would be something of an afterthought to the delight of playing for your country.

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Originally Posted by Predator

Nigel Worthington stated in an interview that "Northern Ireland people" don't give up, so it seems like it will remain an issue until those who don't want Irish nationals playing for the FAI get their way.

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Unless one is suitably wild in their optimism or enjoying the sanctuary of delusion, that must be quite the depressing ambition to be burdened with, such is it's terminal improbability.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Thankfully somebody has decided to put together a list of names of those not interested in representing the FAI.

http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/peti...sociation/2873

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Contrary to the opening suggestion, the Nations Cup hasn't brought any new issues to the fore. If NI fans were to be consistent, they'd be boycotting all FIFA competition games; not just a friendly game against Ireland.

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[I]t should be noted that an informal pre-existing boycott was already in place, with many supporters, including some who have followed the team to South America, the United States, the Caribbean and the farthest corners of Europe, refusing to make the short trip to Dublin to watch our team. The primary reason for this boycott is the increasing selection of Northern Ireland born or capped players by the FAI, despite their already representing Northern Ireland at all levels up to, and now including, full international.

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Not true. Some on OWC were embarrassed to call it a boycott as it gave the impression that the protest actually had mass support. The reality is that the notion of not attending was only entertained by very much a minority of independent individuals. I believe over 6,000 NI fans were still planning on attending until the IFA announced its travel and security plans.

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The time has come for the IFA to make a stand against this practice...

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They went to CAS; it didn't work. Either petition FIFA or accept reality.

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...if it continues the very existence of the association and the international team is endangered.

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Usual hyperbole. Even if all nationalists were to refuse to play for NI - which isn't likely - there'll never be any problem whatsoever finding eleven willing players to line out for the IFA.

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FIFA’s ruling on player eligibility was challenged by the association

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It wasn't a "ruling". It's important that the peddling of this notion is countered as it could easily imply FIFA behaved arbitrarily or something. It was and is a long-standing rule. Neither is it a loophole as is so commonly insinuated.

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The FAI’s shameless exploitation of this rule to the detriment of Northern Ireland teams, and the public statements of its officials vowing to continue and expand this practice, makes cordial relations between the two associations impossible.

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Shameless exploitation of a rule? Aye, like what's the point in even having rules sure? :rolleyes:

Rules permit certain action; action that would have rules constructed to prevent it if it was felt the action was in some way transgressive. The FAI and certain northern-born Irish nationals benefit from these rules by engaging in such action. Nothing shameless or underhand about it. FIFA have had ample opportunity to amend their rules if they felt they needed amendment. Besides, one could challenge this emotional dross with similar by arguing that the FAI are behaving in a noble manner to facilitate a young Irishman from north of the border realise the dream of playing for his country. Nothing sectarian about it either; that really is a bizarre accusation to level when you think about it. The "practice" can only be expanded - that doesn't even really make sense in the context - in so far as northern-born players are prepared to declare for the FAI.

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To those players considering switching allegiance, however, we say this: please do not accept a call-up from the IFA unless it is your intention to play for Northern Ireland.

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Subtle insight into the mindset there. If northern-born players are yet to play for NI but decide to play for Ireland, they're not switching allegiance. They're declaring for their country.

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waste the scarce resources of the IFA

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Resources also contributed to by the nationalist tax-payer? Besides, when young players are called into an under-age team, they're already offering something back to the association by way of their services on the pitch. There's more to the IFA than merely senior international football.

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This amounts to, in essence, the reintroduction of the gentleman’s agreement which existed for over fifty years and worked to the mutual benefit of both associations.

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There was no gentleman's agreement. CAS cleared that up. FIFA merely insisted that the IFA not select southern-born players at the time; around 1950. For this there is evidence. There is no evidence, however, to suggest that FIFA ever issued the FAI with instruction not to select northern-born players. If there was any agreement between the two associations, it was when Jim Boyce accepted that the FAI could call up northern-born players in 1999 and Bernard O'Byrne agreed that the FAI would only call up those who volunteered their services or, in effect, made first contact.

Edit: And, just to add, the IFA taking the FAI to CAS could be rightfully deemed a severe breach of such an agreement. In light of this, there is no reason why the FAI shouldn't communicate with northern-born players prior to them volunteering.

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Originally Posted by Adrock

Footballers arent renowned for their strong political convictions and I can easily see it becoming a case of northern born players opting to represent the South purely for the greater potential of qualifying for a major tournament, regardless of their religious background if this is already not the case. Similar to for instance Morgan and Joyce opting to play for England cricket team.

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Hmm, I dunno. I think identity is very important to people in the north due to the history of the place.

Danny, I strongly advocate a blowing of cover and posting your analysis of the 'Hopin' letter to the Irish Football Association' on 'OWC'. Lurker accounts are a dime a dozen but that kind of clarification is rare.

An admirable thought, but his dispatches from behind OWB lines are priceless.....

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Hmm, I dunno. I think identity is very important to people in the north due to the history of the place.

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True but in sporting terms I think identity can be more fluid in accordance with sporting ambition, as you can see with say Wayne mccullough from Shankhill ending up carrying the irish tricolor at the olympics. I dont think you can argue Mccullough is a republican by any definition but in sporting terms Irish amateur boxing means Republic of Ireland in olympic competition and he wasnt going to deny himself an Olympic medal for the sake of political or religious sceptecism.
Similarly I dont think based on the current trend Northern ireland are likely to ever qualify for a world cup again (going from slim to none) so the more players that do defect the more tempting it is going to be for other players coming through to follow the same path.

This is a cracker from Worthington!

“If you are born in the country you should be representing that country,” said Worthington.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...#ixzz1MzC3GFYR

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

This is a cracker from Worthington!

“If you are born in the country you should be representing that country,” said Worthington.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...#ixzz1MzC3GFYR

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Like Maik taylor or Lee Camp for instance, good call!

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

This is a cracker from Worthington!

“If you are born in the country you should be representing that country,” said Worthington.

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Nigel must have missed this map of current IFA internationals :)

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1155/map2ib.png

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“If you are born in the country you should be representing that country,” said Worthington.

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http://images0.cpcache.com/nocache/p...x480_Front.jpg

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Originally Posted by co. down green

Nigel must have missed this map of current IFA internationals

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1155/map2ib.png

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Some top, top players on that map:D. NI will be fine without Gibson, Wilson, Duffy etc;)

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Originally Posted by co. down green

Nigel must have missed this map of current IFA internationals :)

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Wow, youve got to stay we definitely get a better class of plastic :smirk:

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Yeah, sure everybody knows the FAI hates Cork people, not protestants!

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They don't hate them, they just don't give a sh1te about them.

Worthington getting desperate now :) Can't have another West Belfast lad going to the 'dark side' lol

http://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/page...364122,00.html

Sure, there's nothing like Hypocrisy....
:eek:

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Originally Posted by co. down green

Worthington getting desperate now :) Can't have another West Belfast lad going to the 'dark side' lol

http://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/page...364122,00.html

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Excellent prospect.

The call up will do the kid no harm whatsoever.

Carl is a product of the Linfield Academy.

His twin brother, Jude, is still at Linfield and is rated by some as a potentially better prospect than Carl.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Excellent prospect.

The call up will do the kid no harm whatsoever.

Carl is a product of the Linfield Academy.

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As was Daniel Devine ;)

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Originally Posted by co. down green

As was Daniel Devine ;)

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That's correct - some ignorant ROI fans thought he was from a "unionist background" because he played for Linfield.:D

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

That's correct - some ignorant ROI fans thought he was from a "unionist background" because he played for Linfield.:D

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Had to laugh at that one.

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Originally Posted by awec

Had to laugh at that one.

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It's from the same ignorant school of thought that David Healy* was getting sectarian abuse because he is a "Catholic".

*Of course, he must be - with a name like that!:D

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

That's correct - some ignorant ROI fans thought he was from a "unionist background" because he played for Linfield.:D

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Wasn't it the Belfast Telegraph who were describing it as "ironic" and one chap on Politics.ie who suggested he might be from a unionist background because of this?

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Wasn't it the Belfast Telegraph who were describing it as "ironic" and one chap on Politics.ie who suggested he might be from a unionist background because of this?

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Yea the Belfast Telegraph called it out as ironic which was quite confusing.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Wasn't it the Belfast Telegraph who were describing it as "ironic" and one chap on Politics.ie who suggested he might be from a unionist background because of this?

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I've never viewed Politics.ie. I read the comments of a ROI fan on another message board.

Ignorant Belfast Telegraph reporters shine once again.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

It's from the same ignorant school of thought that David Healy was getting sectarian abuse because he is a "Catholic".

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Are you sure about the Daniel Devine 'abuse' thing? Like said elsewhere, would always go based on the name!
:rolleyes:

And with DH, it was actually to do with his da, a self-proclaimed Rangers fan, based on people who knew him from Downpatrick, as I recall.

And you should read Politics.ie , NB.

Speaking of "ignorant schools of thought" I always felt that ROI fans booing Rangers players was not sectarian. Nobody was booing anyone on basis of religion. That would be disgraceful.

They were booing because (a) many ROI fans wrongly felt that being a Celtic fan and a ROI fan were more or less the same thing, but also and more importantly (b) playing for a very dodgy institution whose fans are openly and vocally anti-Irish isn't exactly likely to endear you to, eh, the Irish. Sadly the Joe Duffys of the airwaves didn't quite get that.

I'm glad the booing is gone though.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Are you sure about the Daniel Devine 'abuse' thing?

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I don't think there was any abuse, unless I missed that. Just a few people foolishly assuming he might have been from a unionist background because he played with Linfield and had interest from Rangers and the Belfast Telegraph strangely considering it ironic that he would declare for Ireland in light of this.

I remember watching the 82 and 86 world cups with envy, partly because I thought we had at least as good a squad at the time but mainly because NI had achieved what we seemed unable to at the time. I had no idea at the time what backgrounds any of the players were from (or interest) and still dont. It seemed to bring people up there together briefly. I'm not sure what to make of all these players declaring for us as, to me, international football should be about representing your family, friends, community and people you grew up around. Leaving politics aside, it seems a shame that these lads are not playing for the team that supposidly represents their local communities. It would however be good if our underage system was producing players like Gibson, Duffy and Ferguson because we dont seem to have produced any players coming through at premiership level for a while.

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Originally Posted by RiffRaff

I'm not sure what to make of all these players declaring for us as, to me, international football should be about representing your family, friends, community and people you grew up around. Leaving politics aside, it seems a shame that these lads are not playing for the team that supposidly represents their local communities.

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International football is about representing family, friends, community and people one grew up around. Leaving politics aside, there is a community in the north that identifies culturally not as British, Northern Irish or whatever, but as Irish; as much a part and parcel of the Irish nation as their fellow compatriots south the border. The Ulster Banner and 'God Save the Queen' are not symbols venerated by this community; rather, you'll find Irish tricolours to be the flag of choice. As Seamus Heaney wrote in objection to his inclusion in the 1982 Penguin Book of Contemporary British Poetry:

"Don't be surprised if I demur, for, be advised
My passport's green.
No glass of ours was ever raised
To toast The Queen."

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Originally Posted by RiffRaff

I remember watching the 82 and 86 world cups with envy, partly because I thought we had at least as good a squad at the time but mainly because NI had achieved what we seemed unable to at the time. I had no idea at the time what backgrounds any of the players were from (or interest) and still dont. It seemed to bring people up there together briefly. I'm not sure what to make of all these players declaring for us as, to me, international football should be about representing your family, friends, community and people you grew up around. Leaving politics aside, it seems a shame that these lads are not playing for the team that supposidly represents their local communities. It would however be good if our underage system was producing players like Gibson, Duffy and Ferguson because we dont seem to have produced any players coming through at premiership level for a while.

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You would have thought, given your much larger selection pool that your youth system would be producing plenty of quality players.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

The Ulster Banner and 'God Save the Queen' are not symbols venerated by this community; rather, you'll find Irish tricolours to be the flag of choice. As Seamus Heaney wrote in objection to his inclusion in the 1982 Penguin Book of Contemporary British Poetry:

"Don't be surprised if I demur, for, be advised
My passport's green.
No glass of ours was ever raised
To toast The Queen."

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I wonder if he'll update that after Dublin Castle? ;)

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Originally Posted by The Fly

I wonder if he'll update that after Dublin Castle? ;)

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He was sitting at the same table and all. :D

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Are you sure about the Daniel Devine 'abuse' thing? Like said elsewhere, would always go based on the name!
:rolleyes:

And with DH, it was actually to do with his da, a self-proclaimed Rangers fan, based on people who knew him from Downpatrick, as I recall.

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What "abuse thing" of Daniel Devine are you on about?

What's to do with David Healy's "da"? We all know he's a Rangers fan. He's a Linfield fan too (as is David Healy) - what's your point?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Speaking of "ignorant schools of thought" I always felt that ROI fans booing Rangers players was not sectarian. Nobody was booing anyone on basis of religion. That would be disgraceful.

I'm glad the booing is gone though.

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We'll see if it's gone on Tuesday night.

As implied by others up thread, NB, including you! #339 as a start & #341.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

As implied by others up thread, NB, including you! #339 as a start & #341.

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What was "implied" be myself and others up thread?

Was replying to #354;leave you to work that one out.....
Unless of course your question(s) were rhetorical??

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

International football is about representing family, friends, community and people one grew up around. Leaving politics aside, there is a community in the north that identifies culturally not as British, Northern Irish or whatever, but as Irish; as much a part and parcel of the Irish nation as their fellow compatriots south the border. The Ulster Banner and 'God Save the Queen' are not symbols venerated by this community; rather, you'll find Irish tricolours to be the flag of choice.

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No problem - those who want to play under the Tricolour amd stand to Amhrán na bhFiann can do so. They are not symbols that are venerated by the British Irish community.

There is, I agree, a case for the IFA ditching the Ulster Banner, and using the "Official" Flag of Northern Ireland instead.