I just think hitting them that high is playing with fire, not much room for error. Low and hard towards the corner are the safer bet like 2:35.
The better penalty takers tend to keep them fairly low more often than not.
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I just think hitting them that high is playing with fire, not much room for error. Low and hard towards the corner are the safer bet like 2:35.
The better penalty takers tend to keep them fairly low more often than not.
The English ones do. More technical players tend to place them high and to the corner, where the goalkeeper is least likely to reach it.
Yep. Hit it high, and the keeper will not save it (that's almost a statistical fact), so the only issue is getting it on target.
Hit it low, and you've a better chance of hitting the target, and a better chance of the keeper reaching it.
Leighton Baines and Alan Shearer are two pretty successful penalty takers who often put them fairly high. Can't really think of many others. Ruud Van Nistelrooy had perfected the kind of penalty I think is safest, very low and very hard into the corner. He started missing when he stopped doing this, famously against Arsenal's 'invincibles' when he hit the crossbar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Have a watch of this, Uruguay's masterclass in penalty-taking from the 2011 Copa America. Four of their penalties are effectively unsavable, whereas Muslera saved one and got a hand to another Argentinian penalty, both of which were hit low into the corner. There's a reason why England never lose every penalty shoot out they're involved in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0BGS34CyuU
In fairness the one that was saved was neither low nor into the corner. Players put them at a nice height for keepers far too often. Some of those Uruguay ones weren't really that high either, just very well struck with power an accuracy. Anyway, keep hitting them high and this will eventually happen :) ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DSLzsMXCAE
You're being a little bit sophistic here. I could point to dozens of penalties the goalkeeper has easily saved and say "keep hitting them low in the corner and this will happen." Tevez's penalty WAS hit low and to the corner, he just misdirected it, like Suarez did there. I'd be willing to bet my mother on the certainty that there are a lot more penalties saved than hit wide or over, which would suggest that hitting it towards the top corners is the relatively risk-averse option. Of course, you need a bit of bottle and the technical ability to pull it off, which is why not many players are willing to attempt it on a regular basis.
Steve Finnan V Spain - World Cup 2002. Now that's how you take a peno!
Ah feck it, for old times sake.......(Finnan SPOT kick from 5:00 onwards)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsfTKyF5Bu4
Ah come on now, I wasn't taking the discussion that seriously. I just happened to remember Suarez blowing one miles over the bar and he was one of the penalty takers in your clip. It's wasn't meant as conclusive proof or anything. Surely your presentation of the penalty shoot-out is a little bit sophistic too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Yeah, that's all true I would think. Tevez type of penalty wasn't really the type of penalty I was referring to though, in my original comment on the subject. He went for brute force really which will generally compromise the accuracy. I'd prefer to take a little off the velocity and concentrate more on the accuracy. If you put the ball towards that side netting that PineappleStu was talking about, keepers will rarely get over to save it, whether it's high or low.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
There are definitely more saved than hit wide or over, that's fairly obvious seeing as from 12 yards players are generally going to hit the target. I don't think that tells us much really, as we don't know the stats on the percentage of high penalties that miss the target and we don't know the percentage of low penalties that are saved. Also, when a player is going for the 'high' option there is also the possibility he'll underhit it, and leave it at a nice height for the keeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
You need bottle because it's a more risky penalty, which was my point in the first place. Fair enough though, I know you think it's only riskier in relation to hitting the target and not in terms of your percentage chance of actually scoring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Some stats here from every World Cup/Euro Championship penalty shoot-out from 1998 to 2012 (probably not a big sample in fairness). Not one shot to the top third of the goal was saved, and there was a higher miss rate amongst players aiming for the bottom right than anywhere else bar centre top. One-third of all penalties to the bottom left were saved.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Conclusion? Aim for the top corner.
Quite a big difference when talking about Sammon's penalty technique/ability/confidence etc. in a penalty shoot out in a league cup game in Kildare and comparing it to a championship game at a packed ground.
Is that based on personal experience?
God, that commentator is so annoying. It's so obvious he's already seen the game before commentating on itQuote:
Originally Posted by Junior
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Of course.
All our opinions here on this matter are based on objective analysis of exact personal experience of the event we are discussing.
Well I would agree that if you hit a penalty high and on target, it won't really be saved. The debate overall was more to do with whether it was worth the risk of missing the target completely by hitting it high. This would suggest that it's not, don't you think?...Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
"Well over half of those penalties missed were aimed at the top third of the goal. Almost a quarter of those missed were aimed bottom left, a function of this being the most popular target."
Never liked the pitch in Newbridge myself, too close to the train which put me off many a penalty kick. Never had such problems in the Championship mind you.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Well yes, but part of the point of being a good penalty taker technically is that you're more likely not to blaze it over.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
A combination of curiosity and too much time on my hands made me look back over the previous England penalty shoot-outs. The only one I didn't watch was the one against Portugal in 2004, as I couldn't find it on YouTube.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I discovered that England aim high more often than the opposition, and have had a lot of success in doing so. Ashley Young hitting the bar against Italy and Chris Waddle's famous high and wide against West Germany in 1990 their only misses. Beardsley, Shearer (2), Merson, Owen, Gascoigne and Sheringham have all scored to the upper third of the net.
England's opponents have scored with all of their 'high' attempts except for Fernando Hierro in 1996, when he hit the bar.
All four of the German spot kicks in 1990 were aimed low (well KH Riedle's was debatable, probably the middle third). 4/6 of the German penalties in 1996 were aimed high. In all, they scored 10/10 !!
All-in-all your argument that 'hitting them high is best' is fairly well supported I think, but you may have been a bit harsh on England (even if they did lose most of the shoot-outs).
Ah look at him there....
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nor_Sammon.jpg
Cannot... Compute...Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ance/Smash.gif
Serious questions need to be asked about my command of the English language.
Ward missed another penalty, meaning Derby have missed their last four, two apiece.
Yeah, poor penalty, he should have lifted it :) But for injuries and penalty misses, Derby could be comfortably in the playoffs. Clough is doing a reasonable job I suppose on a shoestring, but he's lucky he is who he is I think or he could be under a bit of pressure at this stage.
Sammon hit the post with a one on one, should have scored for sure. Mick McCarthy as honest as ever after the game "I was sat in the dressing room and I thought I heard the sirens, the police were coming because it was a robbery!".
yes! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie darwin
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The danger with that is putting it over the top. My technique was to imagine I was taking corner through the goal frame.
I think that keep it low, so I would try and put it through about 5 feet high, with basically a yard to spare to the side
and above, I felt I was guaranteed not to miss the goal like that it also works out at 13 feet from the goal keepers
feet in a straight line. Good luck to the keeper if he can stop it!! I reckon it's hard to stop even if the keeper
guesses where you are going to put it. Looks better than a low penalty too!!
That actually makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately for me I was terrible at taking corners. A master at cutting them though :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Spurs-Basle currently in penalties, with Basle leading 2-1 after two apiece. Nice case study on whether the more technical team wins, and where the penalties are struck. No surprise Sigurdsson scored for Spurs and Huddlestone missed.
Basle: low (scored), high (scored), high (scored) high (scored)
Spurs: low (missed) high (scored) high (missed)
Lou Macari banging on about always hitting the target, ignoring the fact the target contains a goalkeeper who's far more mobile than a goalpost.
Haha damn you CD (and PS!). I don't think I'll ever be able to watch a shoot-out again without thinking of this discussion. I thought the fact that Lennon and Defoe weren't there might actually help Spurs in the shoot-out, both extremely likely to miss, particularly Defoe because he'd be stupid enough to take one even though his record is cat. To be fair Huddlestone is certainly not lacking in technical ability and is a lovely striker of a ball normally. I'd say Adebayor has forgotten about his miss already. The Basel penalties were top class. I thought the first guy was going to miss when I saw his unusual run up but he really placed it well. Bale was a bit of a loss, he's taken a couple for Wales in recent times and was very composed in waiting for the keeper to move.
After my bout of shoot-out watching last week and tonight, I'm convinced at this stage you might as well take your chances going high.
There is a mythology that has built up around Huddlestone that he is a lovely technical player in spite of the fact four successive Spurs managers have deemed him unworthy of a regular starting spot. He is the sort of player who hits the ball well once in the entire match and it will be the one highlight everybody remembers from the game. Craig Gardner is another Youtube hero.
Defoe is muck at penalties. I had to laugh when Lou Macari on 3e suggested Spurs would miss having Scott Parker to take penalties. The Basel penalties were lovely, although a couple may have been a bit too central for my liking. The evidence remains that more technically-adept players tend to win shoot-outs :)
Yes, but Brad Friedel is one of the goalkeepers and Brad (God help him) looks as mobile as a tree trunk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Lou Macari also reckoned Spurs were nailed-on to win the shoot out as Friedel was "really up for it". I think both Lou and Adebayor will be looking to forget this one ASAP.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...51FWIDIeAcMdVL
"Watch yerselves lads, me can still swing em."
Well I figured it was more accurate to aim for something about 40 yards away so even if you missed by 2 yards it's only a 5% error which would probably guarantee hitting the target in a penalty. Might be wishful thinking or a rose tinted memory but I can't recall putting a bad one corner, which makes me wonder how those premiership professionals screw them up. I'd always get them dropping in around the penalty spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
I could also score fairly easily from a corner by swinging one in from the in-swinger side (assuming no goal keeper!) but that was helped somewhat by wonky goal posts on the school pitch. During my school years I developed from being useless to half decent, but never really play much after that. Played one game for the school team and scored an own goal in it! (but did get an assist :))
My classes 6 a side team also won a knock-out competition between the classes and went on to loose to the cheating staff side with a bent ref (in more ways than one I suspect!!).
I wish I had taken it more seriously now, on the few occasions I played after that I did pretty well but I never really took it seriously being more academically inclined (or so I thought lol).
Ahh...what might have been.....rather than me slagging player off on here people could have been slagging me off instead :)
Random bug-bear of mine, but it's Basel, not Basle! It's a German-speaking city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I agree about Gardner but completely disagree about Huddlestone. I think he's a lovely passer of the ball, not the most mobile obviously but breaks the mold for typical English midfielders. He looked pretty comfortable at centre back actually as well under difficult circumstances, although his headed clearances could have done with more purchase! He was playing pretty regularly under Redknapp as well but was out for most of last season and Sandro went from strength to strength. With the signing of Dembele now though he's hard to see him breaking his way back in, Dembele is very good technically but far more mobile and an aggressive enough tackler as well. It's a very good squad Spurs have assembled really with everybody fit, Parker and Huddlestone will probably be back-ups to Sandro and Dembele. If they could buy a real striker, possibly the Brazilian Leandro that they missed out on in January (although I have no idea how good he is) and get rid of dead wood like Gallas and Defoe they would be going places.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I don't think that was ever in question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Maybe this should be moved out from here? When the shoot-out ended my first though was to see if there was any new post in the Conor Sammon thread!! Maybe mods could set up a thread 'Penalties' in world football and I would suggest transferring all the posts here from #320?
I was thinking the same, but he used to be mobile, he is nearly 42 now though so what do you expect? I looked at it thinking he looks very old. He looks more than his age.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
2 of their penalties were pretty much straight down the middle, would they have done that if friedel had waited for them to shoot?
Open to correction here but I don't think he was every too great at saving penalties. I predicted before the shoot-out that he wouldn't save any, ye'll just have to take my word for that one or contact my girlfriend on 087******* !!!
I think most of us already have her number. :)
A bit too easy* Stutts but I don't want to look put out so I'll give you a thanks! :D
Adebayor getting a bit of a slagging over his penalty. Am I going mad by thinking it may have clipped the bar though? (I think I probably am)
*Warning- serious obvious joke risk
It's not a question of what do I expect, just an obvious observation made in reply to another post.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
But next time I'll be more positive, as in 'he's sprightly considering his age' :)