But we rarely see teams from Sligo/Leitrim, Roscommon or Clare/Desmond/ Kerry in latter stages of FAI or indeed Cork. Whereas Carrick and Waterford Crystal are fairly recent winners yet still only have two two representatives from their League.
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But we rarely see teams from Sligo/Leitrim, Roscommon or Clare/Desmond/ Kerry in latter stages of FAI or indeed Cork. Whereas Carrick and Waterford Crystal are fairly recent winners yet still only have two two representatives from their League.
mayo section?
is it just that Carrick and Crystal are/have been expectional sides in comparison to rest of the Waterford league? when Carrick or Crystal dont make it to the open draw how do your other representatives do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission Bell
also how many Waterford teams make it to the open draw for the MJC??
simple answer Limerick and Cork have stronger junior teams so it makes sense to have more teams involvedQuote:
Originally Posted by Longshanks
outside of Ck Utd and Waterford crys ,all of Tramore , Dungarvan , Southend, Hibs , Johnville , bohs and not least Villa have been to later stages of Fai and Munster cups during past decade . No other league can boost similiar from small number of qualifiers. The standard is excellent, the numbers are political. The above statement shows lack of info and lack of respect to Waterford clubs efforts.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProEvo
its to do with numbers of teams in leagues
Mayo Section:
Sunday 7th November:
Westpot United v Bangor Hibs
Ballyheane v Ballinrobe/Conn Rangers
Ballina Town v Urlar
Manulla v Kilmore
Ballyhaunis Town v Moy Villa
Achill Rovers v Castlebar Celtic
Kiltimagh/Knock United v Ballina United
Claremorris v Iorras Aontaithe
Quote:
Originally Posted by green&white
thats my opinion pal.... sounds like the organisers of the competition have no info either then. More clubs in Limerick and Cork, trying to get out of limerick itself can be an achievement due to the number of rounds.
forgive my ignorance, but how many Cork sides have been to later stages(quarters onwards) in the last 5/6 seasons??Quote:
Originally Posted by ProEvo
Isnt the fifth round the first 'open' round? by my logic all treams would have to win 4 games to get to the 'open' drawQuote:
Originally Posted by ProEvo
Actually the organisers of th FAI Junior Cup do need to take a look at whats quite evident to the naked eye.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProEvo
Why pitch West Waterford in with Tipperary South and North?
Why have so many teams from Cork in latter stages when past performance does not merit same?
Why have only two reps from WJL which, if scrutinized, probably has the highest ratio of teams reaching the latter rounds of the competition, given the amount of teams qualifying?
So when viewed from this perspective, NO, the organisers of the competition DO NOT HAVE sufficient information on the make up of the FAI Junior Cup.
having done a bit of research, i have to say that the WJL teams seem to be always there or thereabouts at the quarters stage, Cork on the other hand seem to be poorly representented at the quarters stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by green&white
2005 - Westport(Mayo) Killester(Dublin) Crystal(Waterford) Hibs(Galway) Bellurgan(Meath) Carew, Ballynanty, Park(Limerick
2006 - Killester, St John Bosco(Dublin) seem to recall Ballynanty(Limerick) beating Abbey(Sligo) in 1/4ers that year, the rest needs filling in
2007 - Killester, St John Bosco(Dublin) Wembley(Limerick) Carrick, Villa(Waterford) Salthill, West(Galway) Grattan(Cork)
2008 - Killester, Corduff(Dublin) St Michaels, Clonmel T(Tipp) Redcastle(Donegal) Manor Rangers(Leitrim) Carrick(Waterford) Castlebar(Mayo)
2009 - Ballymun, Sherriff(Dublin) Bohs(Waterford) Lisselton(Kerry) Erris(Mayo)Clonmel T(Tipp) Fairview(Limerick) St. Peters(Com. Co.)
2010 - Willow(Com. Co.) Shangan(Dublin) St. Micheals, Clonmel T(Tipp) Pike, Fairview, Regional, Killmallock(Limerick)
2006 (6)quarter finalists need to be completed. of the 42 teams listed they break down as follows:
Dublin 10
Limerick 9
Waterford 5
Tipp 5
Galway 3
Mayo 3
Combined counties 2
Kerry 1
Donegal 1
Sligo/Leitrim 1
Cork 1
Meath 1
Are Cork sides over represented in the 'open' draw???
Well done Shanks, good work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshanks
When you look at this and take into cosideration that WJL has only two teams qualifying from that league, it makes their achievements all the more commendable.
This is something that needs to be be studied by the FAI if they are serious about getting the better sides involved in the competition. Before there is a barrage of criticism, we are not talking about wholesale changes. My suggestion is that representation is looked at on an equal basis.
It does'nt make sense that its harder to get out of your area than it is in the rounds immediately following, if you are lucky with the draw.
Again, well done.
it has to be looked really why not pitched wjl with wwec like in the munster junior and 3 maybe 4 teams through have the tsdl and ntdl together and leave 3/4 teams to the other town faze
good spot everyone has the same amount of rounds to come through to get out of the areaQuote:
Originally Posted by Longshanks
Have got 2006 quarter finalists: Killester, Portmarnock(Dublin) Pike, Aisling(Limerick), Clonmel T(Tipp) Crystal(WJL) Athenry(Galway) Castlebar(Mayo)Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshanks
Lads,
Just to add this on the relative strengths and representaion of each league based over the quarter finalist in the 2006 - 2010 period.
Donegal/Inishowen/Cavan/Monaghan - 5 sides into open draw x 6 years = 30 teams through, 1 quarterfinalist
Galway - 3 = 18 , 4 1/4ers
Mayo - 4 = 24 , 4
Sligo/Leitrim/Roscommon - 3 = 18 , 1
Limerick - 5 = 30 , 11
Tipp Nth/Sth/West Wat/East Cork - 5 = 30 , 6
Kilkenny/Carlow/Wexford - 4 = 24 , 0
Dublin Sat/Sun/Kildare/Wicklow
Meath/Combined Counties - 21 = 126 , 13
Cork - 8 = 48 , 1
Waterford - 2 = 12 , 6
Kerry/Clare/Lim des - 3 = 18 , 1
And to rank each division/region that puts teams through to the 'open' draw based on their teams making the quarters(latter stages):
1. Waterford 6/12 50%
2. Limerick 11/30 36.6%
3. Galway 4/24 22.2%
4. Tipp N/S, WW, EC 6/30 20%
5. Mayo 4/24 16.6%
6. Dub/Kildare/Wiclow
Meath/Combine Co's 13/126 10.3%
7. Sligo/Leitrim/Ros 1/18 5.5%
7. Kerry/Clare/Lim Des 1/18 5.5%
9. Donegal/Inishowen
Cavan/Monaghan 1/30 3.3%
10. Cork 1/48 2%
11. Kilkenny/Carlow/Wex 0/28 0%
I've had to merge Dublin saturday and sunday as I could tell which were which.
Still interesting enough stats, although they probably dont prove much. I'd still have Limerick as the top Junior football division. But it does show that the WJL is seriously under represented in the 5th round draw in comparioson to the Cork areas. The WJL should be looking to merge with Kilkenny/Carlow/Wexford to give them a better chance of more teams entering the 5th round.
any thoughts??
The figures speak for themselves. I'd have to disagree with you that they dont prove much though. I believe they are irrefutable proof that the FAI Junior Cup qualifiers need to be revised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshanks
WJL is seriously under represented, not only in comparison to Cork but to all other leagues. There is no argument. Whether this is down to inaction on behalf of WJL or some other obscure factor, I dont know.
By the way Longshanks, on what do you base your reasoning for the top Junior football division?
Well if the stats I put up today are anything to go by, (and as I've said they dont prove too much, although you disagree) you'll see that Limerick have had 9 different clubs making it to the last 8 over the last 6 cups(Fairview and Pike have been both in last 8 twice) it goes to show that there appears to be serious strength in depth in the Junior soccer scene in Limerick, it also seems to be well ran, resourced, financed, have good facilities and well publicised and supported league. I'm not saying that isnt the case in Waterford. As i said in an earlier post, there appears to be some really strong teams in Waterford.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission Bell
But I'd imagine it'd be toss up between the Limerick Premier and the AUL A that would be the toughest league to win, not trying to be disrespectful to WJL or any other league, just my opinion
My main point is, and your facts back this up, that there is an ambalance in the structure of the FAI Jun Cup qualifiers. This is very clear. Would you agree on this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshanks
You could go back ten or twenty years, it would'nt matter. The statistics would be consistent.
Also in any of the top premier leagues you will almost always find the same three or four teams battling it out whether it be Dublin, Waterford, Limerick , Tipperary or wherever, all of them equally tough.
It would probably be easier to pick a league winner in Dublin than any of the other supposedly stronger leagues this season.
excellent analysis Longshanks. I wish powers that be would take a look and maybe reward best performing areas/leagues. It is always recognised in Waterford that getting out of area is a huge test for any club. This ensures decent representives in open draw , so allowing cream to the top .(so to speak)Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshanks
In last six finals , Dublin 4 - WDJL 3 - Lim 2 - Tipp 1 -combined 1 -galway 1- are the finalists . This again shows strenght of Waterord league. One other thought is that the domination of dublin clubs in the past (60`s 70`s 80`s) is gone . Country clubs have come to the fore in leaps and bounds since.
Might be tougher to pick the relegated teams tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Mission Bell
I do agree that the Waterford representation is a bit light - not just based on performance over the years but based on number of teams entered. However as far as I understand the number of teams qualifying for the out of town stages is mainly linked into the number of teams entered not on performance. Not a perfect method I grant you but just about the fairest way... This is just a summary of the Munster area...
Area == Junior teams entered == Qualifiers == Qualifiers per entrant
Clare/Kerry == 38 == 4 == 1:9.5
Cork Area == 74 == 8 == 1:9.3
Limerick == 53 == 5 == 1:10.6
Tipp/WWEC == 48 == 5 == 1:9.6
Waterford == 24 == 2 == 1:12
Yes it suggests Waterford are underrepresented by 1 team.
Well done on the research which again shows an imbalance in representation from Waterford.Quote:
Originally Posted by Innishvilla
However, my central point is that a simple change, merging the Waterford Junior League with West Waterford East Cork League would correct the situation.
Why have a county the size of Tipperary composed of two separate leagues joined up with WWEC.?
WHO makes these decisions and on what criteria are they based?
Have any teams from the WWEC League ever qualified from this section?
Are they merely cannon fodder for the stronger Tipperary sides, particularily South Tipp?
Any thoughts?
I don't know about the strength of the West Waterford/East Cork league but it does seem strange that a cork/waterford league gets folded into neither cork nor waterford. I would see waterford as being the obvious choice as I couldn't imagine a team from waterford being happy to face a trip to clonakilty - well it would be like qualifying for the out of town section I suppose...
I agree. It just does'nt make sense that West Waterford/East Cork are not put with WJL. This would be a good starting point for the FAI if and when they decide to address the issue.
the wwec is a poor enough standard two tier leagus that are spilt after xmas, they have good facilities in cappaquin and a good fundraising commitee, but the gaa rules the roost, recently lismore were thrown out for not fielding a team two games running and mondeligo folded for not having a squadQuote:
Originally Posted by Innishvilla
Heard Regional won their objection against boro, any truth in that?
I heard boro were gone but it could be just rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by widow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission Bell
Looks like the organiser's need to meet up with you. Or even better change hands.
That might be a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProEvo
Thanks!
Any thoughts on the statistics provided by other contributors in relation to the debate regarding qualification for latter stages of FAI Junior Cup?
yeah heard it last night from a boro man. boro are out, regional won the objectionQuote:
Originally Posted by trueview6
Cappamore VRS Geraldines match has been switched to rathurd
hospital v shannon hibs off water logged pitch
Castle rvs. v Star rvs. also off due to waterlogged pitch.
Do Castle Rvs lose home advantage now or do they get another go to try and play it at home?Quote:
Originally Posted by twohalves
Quote:
Originally Posted by abbeyvale
aisling v carew park off pitch destroyed between sand and water like a swimming pool.
yes abbey ye will get home advantage as will carew id take the home advantage we had 3 or 4 injurys they should be fit to play when the game is refixed john boyle was only about 50% fit this morning was only togging out incase. carew offered aisling to transfer it up to carew park this morning they said no
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas72
bad call from aisling if that was the case they have to go up to carew and play it anyway why not do it when the likes of john boyle and others are not fit. heard a few aisling players were not happy with dalton when they heard he refused to transfer it to carew.
well thats there call to make i think they had two players suspended aswell so it works out well for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by white line