What the FAI thinks of progressive clubs:

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

I think it has got the to stage, if the FAI grant the game, they look fools and if they continue to not sanction it, they look fools aswell. They are in a real mess at the moment.

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Or to sum up, and declare what appears to be the general consensus - the FAI look like fools, irrespective of anything.

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Originally Posted by WoodquayBoy

Or to sum up, and declare what appears to be the general consensus - the FAI look like fools, irrespective of anything.

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If it looks like a fool, talks like a fool and acts like a fool it must be........John Delaney

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/...barcelona.html

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Limerick confirm Barcelona friendly is off

Limerick have confirmed that the proposed friendly with Barcelona will not be going ahead.

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Limerick FC have been informed by FC Barcelona that the only reason that this match is not going ahead is the decision of the Airtricity League Director & the FAI not to sanction the proposed match.

'The initial decision of Airtricity League Director & the FAI was not changed despite an email request by FC Barcelona to FAI officials on the night of Monday 17th May that confirmed their desire to go ahead with the match with Limerick FC and stated their disagreement with the decision not to sanction the game.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/...barcelona.html

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Yet more bad press for the FAI. It just isn't getting any better for them at this stage. There goes Delaneys comments about not believing Limerick having ever had any match ready to go.

I wonder have the FAI any ideas for alternative fundraisers to raise that kind of money, a harmless table quiz maybe or a nice little friendly with small capacity against Torquay or someone :rolleyes:

Really dont know what to think of the people involved in the FAI . They cancel a friendly that could be a massive benefit financially to Limerick fc and then arrange a friendly with a LOI 11 on the same week as LOI sides play in European competition .
FAI have a lot of questions they have yet to answer.

At the end of the day I think it must be Tommy no Bobs fault!!! It must be something in the blood of these Munster men at least that causes them to be such loo-laas. We need an internal coup in the FAI!

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Originally Posted by Longfordian

What was that about the clubs banding together?

Fear of adverse reaction from the powers that be by the looks of things

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Clubs with their own agendas in geneflecting before John Delaneys feet shocker

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I'm not sure how much Limerick FC would grow as a result of Barcelona's visit. It would be a windfall payday and a massive coup for the club but in all likelihood it would be a once-off.

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An annual friendly in Thomond Park of this nature (which I'd imagine was the plan) would have seen Limerick FC right for the forseeable future, up around the top six to eight clubs in the country which is probably where it belongs.

Instead it's back to depending on the generosity of a backer in Pat O'Sullivan*, who has done an incredible amount of good work on the ground in Limerick since he took over. Above all else in this farce, Pat O'Sullivan deserved better from the FAI.




*Until the end of the year when we are uncerimoniously dumped out of football for the benefit of Delaneys ego - Again.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Instead it's back to depending on the generosity of a backer in Pat O'Sullivan*, who has done an incredible amount of good work on the ground in Limerick since he took over. Above all else in this farce, Pat O'Sullivan deserved better from the FAI.

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Absolutely right.

Pat has come in with the naive idea that the FAI won't f**k with his plans to make Limerick a better part of the community and an independent club in the Markets Field.

Now he knows better.

Wait, did Darwin just argue that a once off injection of cash would do nothing for a club?

Seriously?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Wait, did Darwin just argue that a once off injection of cash would do nothing for a club?

Seriously?

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His username comes from an award he has his eye on winning.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

That would make sense - from what I can gather Thomond Park Stadium Company Limited (awful name) is a 50/50 partnership between Munster Rugby and the IRFU, but the IRFU obviously calls the shots.

You're right that the FAI hold the cards, but were they to sanction a game in Limerick, there'd be no option other than to have it in Thomond, so the Thomond company would be able to drive a really hard bargain. Maybe they would be more receptive than I give them credit for, but they have to look after their own interests and Limerick would definitely need them more than they'd need Limerick FC.


You're the one who questioned my take on the finances. I'm just saying the net financial gain from having a game at the Aviva is greater than having it at Thomond. Fairly basic point.


I don't know enough about the exact contractual details to comment on the exact contractual details. I do know that playing a game in the Aviva is going to bring more money to Irish football than playing it in Thomond.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Of course I know more than nothing. More tickets sold = more income. Own stadium = no rent. It shouldn't be difficult to extrapolate that a fixture in the Aviva will generate more money.

Two sides of the same coin. The quicker the Lansdowne debt is paid the better, as far as I'm concerned. Again, I'm not sure what arrangements the FAI has to service its debt - it may well be that they are currently on schedule and they wouldn't need to put the proceeds of a hypothetical game towards servicing it - but at the end of the day it's a few hundred grand that will help improve the organisation's financial standing.

As much as I'm sure money is wasted on junkets and the like at the FAI, it is a not-for-profit organisation that puts a lot of money into the game at grassroots level, and I'd expect a cash injection from any fixture would filter down to the clubs and underage game in some form. I don't have an awful lot of faith in the organisation, but I don't think it's the worst in the world either.


That's interesting, but seemingly counter-productive in this case. If that's true, I can definitely see why the FAI chose to play South Africa and Australia in Thomond if they were asking for a fraction of what the GAA was asking for Croker.

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Two sides of the same coin. The quicker the Lansdowne debt is paid the better, as far as I'm concerned. Again, I'm not sure what arrangements the FAI has to service its debt - it may well be that they are currently on schedule and they wouldn't need to put the proceeds of a hypothetical game towards servicing it - but at the end of the day it's a few hundred grand that will help improve the organisation's financial standing.

As much as I'm sure money is wasted on junkets and the like at the FAI, it is a not-for-profit organisation that puts a lot of money into the game at grassroots level, and I'd expect a cash injection from any fixture would filter down to the clubs and underage game in some form. I don't have an awful lot of faith in the organisation, but I don't think it's the worst in the world either.

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Are you serious? Not-for-profit by design by not in practice.

The reason why the FAI are in such a financial mess is because John Delaney has made a bags of the stadium financing.

To start, there's the preposterous and greedy pricing of 10-year-tkts (that he now is turning to the very grassroots you mention to buy).

They've also taken a 15mill loss on the Aviva naming rights by selling the bond to an investor in exhange for an upfront payment.

This is from a man paid 400K per year! More than the leader of our country.

If, as he admitted on RTE radio on Sunday, it's all about money, should he not be taking a pay-cut to save a few quid and offset it against the interest he has started to clock up on multi-million loans.

Any chance this can be made into a banner?

What about this one instead

Attachment 1647

LOL

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

An annual friendly in Thomond Park of this nature (which I'd imagine was the plan) would have seen Limerick FC right for the forseeable future, up around the top six to eight clubs in the country which is probably where it belongs.

Instead it's back to depending on the generosity of a backer in Pat O'Sullivan*, who has done an incredible amount of good work on the ground in Limerick since he took over. Above all else in this farce, Pat O'Sullivan deserved better from the FAI.

*Until the end of the year when we are uncerimoniously dumped out of football for the benefit of Delaneys ego - Again.

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How likely is an annual friendly going to be though? It would be great if fixtures like this became a common occurrence, but if the Limerick-Barca fixture was anything of a success you can guarantee the competition for friendlies next year will be even hotter and the FAI will do everything in their power to make them happen in Dublin.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Wait, did Darwin just argue that a once off injection of cash would do nothing for a club?

Seriously?

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No.

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Originally Posted by Alf Honn

Are you serious? Not-for-profit by design by not in practice.

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The Airtricity League runs at a loss and the FAI makes up the shortfall with its own resources.

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The reason why the FAI are in such a financial mess is because John Delaney has made a bags of the stadium financing.

To start, there's the preposterous and greedy pricing of 10-year-tkts (that he now is turning to the very grassroots you mention to buy).

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I've no argument with this.

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They've also taken a 15mill loss on the Aviva naming rights by selling the bond to an investor in exhange for an upfront payment.

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This sounds completely untrue.

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If, as he admitted on RTE radio on Sunday, it's all about money, should he not be taking a pay-cut to save a few quid and offset it against the interest he has started to clock up on multi-million loans.

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Of course he should.

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The Airtricity League runs at a loss and the FAI makes up the shortfall with its own resources

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Id say if you looked at the bigger picture you would see the FAI benefits more than LOI clubs. The likes of Kevin Doyle don't just fall out of the sky, clubs spent money on coaching him. Players like Keith Fahey and Brian Murphy, would be lost to the game if it weren't for LOI clubs, Murphy has said it himself. Plenty of ex LOI players in the Irish squad, so its not like the FAI don't get anything out of it.

A few of the clubs were around well before the FAI, indeed it was the clubs that set them up cause of the treatment from the IFA, similar to what the FAI do now.

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Originally Posted by fieldofmarkets

Now this whole mess could only happen in one place, Limerick. As there's no other suitable stadium for marquee teams to visit with attendance over 15/20k. So I guess it won't effect most clubs.

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RDS is, or can, go to 20,000 now. Was that (give or take a couple of hundred) for the Clermont game. As someone else said, that's maybe the venue they had in mind and that may be where the confusion over the capacity figure (as the RDS only recently increased). What 3rd party paid big money for a stadium sponsorship in Dublin 4?

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Originally Posted by gspain

However this would rule out rugby too eg another Munster v All Blacks etc and the IRFU would never agree to that.

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Could it be that the contract is a number of high profile games - the IRFU have 6 nations, autumn internationals, probably the inter pro's v Ulster and Munster, plus AIL Finals and the Cup. Also the IRFU is in a much stronger position, as I don't recall hearing they've totally bombed on sales of premium tickets...

They've also taken a 15mill loss on the Aviva naming rights by selling the bond to an investor in exhange for an upfront payment. This sounds completely untrue.

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You're right, it does sound untrue but, sadly, you are incorrect.

A fascinating article in the Sunday Times Business section at the weekend outlined the dire state of the FAI finances. Not available on-line but there's a similar story in today's Indo headlined the 'Real cost of the Aviva stadium': http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...m-2184726.html

Here's an extract from the Sunday Times:

"NSL, formerly the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company, sold their 10-yr naming rights to Aviva for 40 mill but securitised them to clients NCB Stockbrokers for 25mill to get cash up front."

Yes, that's a hit of 15mill. And they're denying Limerick the chance of making a paltry 100k to keep them afloat!

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Originally Posted by gspain

The IRFU are apparently concerned the ERC could use Croke Park for big Heineken games such as semi finals and final.
There appears to be little opposition left in the GAA now to the renting out of Croke Park and many in the GAA would see it as a coup (not to mind the
big revenue) to stage a big rugby or football game with the Aviva empty.

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Whatever about the final, I think the home team control HC semi's, and presumably Leinster or Munster wouldn't go against the IRFU, and I think it's the union that bids for the finals rather than the stadium. I actually think it would be the same for the Champions League or Europa League finals, with the home FA bidding rather than a standalone stadium. Also, it's a different case anyway with the IRFU as they do have direct control of the branches and centrally contract the top Irish players - they pony up for the right to control the teams, players etc.

Are Limerick still looking at legal action now the game's off?

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Are Limerick still looking at legal action now the game's off?

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Heard something about continuing with the appeal out of principal but i wouldn't know myself about the legal part.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Are Limerick still looking at legal action now the game's off?

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I would very much hope so. Compensation from the FAI to the tune of whatever the projected profit would have been will suffice. Provided the club can provide the heads of agreement with Barcelona they say they have, the multitude of lies and contradictions displayed by Delaney in this matter would not stand up in court. He also would be obliged to prove the existence of this 'third party'. What the FAI have done here is despotic, dictatorial and disgusting and they must be brought to task over it legally, or else all clubs with ambition will suffer.

No court case will happen

Ye olde particiaption agreement will see to that. OK Limerick might win, but they won't get a license, so whats the point?

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

I would very much hope so. Compensation from the FAI to the tune of whatever the projected profit would have been will suffice. Provided the club can provide the heads of agreement with Barcelona they say they have, the multitude of lies and contradictions displayed by Delaney in this matter would not stand up in court. He also would be obliged to prove the existence of this 'third party'. What the FAI have done here is despotic, dictatorial and disgusting and they must be brought to task over it legally, or else all clubs with ambition will suffer.

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Completely, completely, completely agree.

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Originally Posted by Alf Honn

They've also taken a 15mill loss on the Aviva naming rights by selling the bond to an investor in exhange for an upfront payment. This sounds completely untrue.

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You're right, it does sound untrue but, sadly, you are incorrect.

A fascinating article in the Sunday Times Business section at the weekend outlined the dire state of the FAI finances. Not available on-line but there's a similar story in today's Indo headlined the 'Real cost of the Aviva stadium': http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...m-2184726.html

Here's an extract from the Sunday Times:

"NSL, formerly the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company, sold their 10-yr naming rights to Aviva for 40 mill but securitised them to clients NCB Stockbrokers for 25mill to get cash up front."

Yes, that's a hit of 15mill. And they're denying Limerick the chance of making a paltry 100k to keep them afloat!

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Err......... its not a "hit". Its called Net Present Value.

Assuming the €40 million is paid evenly at €4m a year (I've no idea whether this is the case or not), then securitising the cash flows for €25m gives an annual discount rate of over 9%, which does seems on the high side, but not beyond the realms of possibility.

But to describe it as "losing €15m" is completely incorrect. If you want to prove, this, go up to someone on the street, tell them you'll pay them 10 euro a year for the next ten years, and then ask them for €100 now and see how far you get....

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Originally Posted by gspain

The ERC also control the semi finals. they are located in the home country of the team drawn at home.

You are correct re a Union but the ERC might decide not to use a 50,000 seater stadium and let the IRFU decide then whether or not to apply with CP.

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YOu sure about that? Seems out that anyone but Biarritz would choose to play their home semi final in Spain?

The home club must nominate what ever stadium they want to use for the semi-final, there is a minimum capacity which I think would mean Thomond is fine for a semi. Open to correction though

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Originally Posted by Dodge

YOu sure about that? Seems out that anyone but Biarritz would choose to play their home semi final in Spain?

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Yes the ERC decide where the semi-finals are held. Last season Munster had drawn a home country semi-final. The match was against Leinster and was held in Croke Park so you could say Munster didn't have a home semi-final, just home country advantage whch in that case was no advantage at all. Biarritz chose the nearest stadium with a big capacity, it just happened to be in Spain. They don't consider themselves French per say anyway they consider themselves Basque.

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Originally Posted by endabob1

The home club must nominate what ever stadium they want to use for the semi-final, there is a minimum capacity which I think would mean Thomond is fine for a semi. Open to correction though

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The team that draws home country advantage must have the semi-final venue at least 60km (open to correction there) away from their home ground.

Oh I realise that, but who decided where it was. My guess is Biarritz. gspain thinks the ERC had final say

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/31_264.php

It's the ERC, semi's are "nominally" Neutral so Leinster could play a semi at aviva but Munster would probably have to too.

Thanks endabob, and apologies to gspain for doubting him...

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Originally Posted by Jofspring

The team that draws home country advantage must have the semi-final venue at least 60km (open to correction there) away from their home ground.

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How did Toulouse hold their semi in Toulouse?

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Originally Posted by Jofspring

The team that draws home country advantage must have the semi-final venue at least 60km (open to correction there) away from their home ground.

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That's not correct as Toulouse played Leinster in Toulouse soccer stadium. I think it works something like you can play it in a ground that's not your regular home ground with a capacity of 20,000 or more.

Someone from the League is going to be on the Last Word on Today FM defending this decision.

Might be worth emailing in some of the questions raised here!

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Originally Posted by MariborKev

Someone from the League is going to be on the Last Word on Today FM defending this decision.

Might be worth emailing in some of the questions raised here!

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It was really embaressing and another lost opportunity. The politician, ex mayor of Limerick, was so lacking in cogent points and so full of waffle he made Fran Gavin sound like a resoned caring director of an altruistic organisation. His main thrust was like "ye Dubs are not giving us Limerick folk a proper share out" He even said it was a disgrace that Limerick have been overlooked for the Premier Division!

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Originally Posted by Alf Honn

They've also taken a 15mill loss on the Aviva naming rights by selling the bond to an investor in exhange for an upfront payment. This sounds completely untrue.

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You're right, it does sound untrue but, sadly, you are incorrect.

A fascinating article in the Sunday Times Business section at the weekend outlined the dire state of the FAI finances. Not available on-line but there's a similar story in today's Indo headlined the 'Real cost of the Aviva stadium': http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...m-2184726.html

Here's an extract from the Sunday Times:

"NSL, formerly the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company, sold their 10-yr naming rights to Aviva for 40 mill but securitised them to clients NCB Stockbrokers for 25mill to get cash up front."

Yes, that's a hit of 15mill. And they're denying Limerick the chance of making a paltry 100k to keep them afloat!

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This one? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7127685.ece

OK, this is completely misleading.

First of all, Aviva paid 44m to the Lansdowne company for the naming rights - that's 22m each for the IRFU and FAI. A hit of 15m would be 7.5m apiece. It's the difference between writing of 66% of the fee and 33%.

Second, securitising a loan doesn't mean you literally sell the assets for the amount quoted. They would normally take that money in over a period of years (presumably ten years, such is the duration of the sponsorship) and the cumulative total of 40m would be worth less than 40m today minus lost interest payments. Securitisation is like placing a bet that the money will be more use to you today than the equivalent amount will be in ten years.

The article is misleading on a number of issues. The FAI does have serious funding issues but it's entirely related to their ability to shift their share of the seats, nothing to do with the independent company that runs the stadium.

It's all Daniel McDonnell's fault :D


The FAI need new PR advice - with the first principle being - When in a hole, stop digging!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...t-2186686.html

Fair play to Dan!

Legend. Magnificent stuff. He did get caught out for a couple of petty swipes and generalisations but it's hilarious that the FAI decided to have a go.

terrific stuff by McDonnell

Fair play to him (and *gulp* his Indo editors)