Also the omens seem to have been true. Players flew economy class like last time and the ref officiated a Champions League game between Cork City and APOEL which City won.
Also the omens seem to have been true. Players flew economy class like last time and the ref officiated a Champions League game between Cork City and APOEL which City won.
Folan was only yellow.
But it means if we draw with italy and beat montenegro, and italy and bulgaria win all their other games, we finish third.... not a chance i want bulgaria to win! it has no positives! a draw has exactly the same positives, with none of the negatives. we want a draw in that game, or secondly an italian win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metrostars
we do not, under any circumstances, want a bulgarian win. none at all.
A draw means 2 home wins and we're there, yes?
Great for my state of mind, probably terminal for my marriage.
I hear your points about the CM and their poor performance. However, does ye not think the way we play or the Trap has the team set up inhibits them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
They are largely anonymous, long ball after long ball. We can play the ball around as was evidenced by the first ten mins or so and particularly for the period after we scored our second goal. We kept the ball very well, played it around very intelligently and created a few openings. Cyprus didnt have a chance after we scored our second other than two silly free kicks.
Perhaps they should show more for the ball, but i think the long ball tactic is a big factor in their poor performances.
Also I thought Okkas gave Dunne a torrid time tonight, not a great showing from him, gave away silly free kicks particularly near the end and was fortunate not to concede a penalty.
Did we out-dive the Cypriots?
funny how it goes. I dont think this could have been more predicatble. Hands up how many people thought tonight would be a poor performance by Ireland which happened to finish 1-2.
CM is without doubt the problem, and has been for the last 3 years. as much as we can all admire Andrews and Whelen/Gibson for their effort, its only a matter of time before some mediocre team embarrases us. Like many on this forum I believe that Steven Reid will increase our potential ten fold, but on the odd occasion when he will be fit someone else is due to be injured. We have a pretty decent squad overall, its just a pity that at any one time someone important has to be injured, and they always tend to be the differance between an average Irish team and a mediocre one.
Having said that, is everyone else convinced that the Stephen Hunts future as an international player should be solely as an impact sub, and never to start a game. The guy can seriously change the whole tempo of a game
when he comes on a sub, but for me when he starts he is does F*** all.
4 points from our final two games guarantes second spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
If we win the last two games, obviously guaranted second, but we may not get the top spot, if Italy get two wins from their other two games, at home to Bulgaria and Cyprus.
If Italy win on wed night, that is the group done and dusted in my opinion. We would then be playing for points to guarante a play off spot.
a draw on wednesday means two wins and we win the group, three points would get us into the playoffsQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
an italian win means two draws (or even just a win v montenegro) means we make the playoffs
a bulgaria win means we HAVE to win both our remaining games to win the group, anything less, anything at all, and we would almost certainly finish third
simple!
Geysir alluded to a Trapp quote suggesting that CM's poor showing was not down to tactics.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
RTE at least asked the questins, Bill corretl;y asking was ita loack of confidence in the CM that caused the hoofing, Giles querying the moral couarge in showing for the ball etc.
We won anyway, Fcuking delighted. If you qualify you all start off on zero points, even Brazil. It's not like you're handicapped based on how you got there.
I can't imagine the French are doing cartwheels at the moment, or Portugal, or Italy...
Yes, having said that diving and Irish players is not new. Damien Duff against Spain in 02 for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Not necessarily, Bulgaria are five points behind us with 3 games left, so max they can get is 9 points. If they do, we would need to get at least 4 points to stay ahead of them, if we just managed the 4 it would come down to goal difference which after 2n is prob in Bulgaria's favour.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
Disagree totally. The defender slid straight though Duff's path without winning the ball. If Duff had stayed on his feet he'd have lost the ball as a consequence of the attempted tackle. If the tackle hadn't come in Duff had control of the ball only yarrs from the goal. No contact (Duff maunufactured the contact) but 100% foul. Go to ground, miss the ball, you deserve to be penalised. Evetywehere in the world except UK & IRL this is appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishultra
Ya, except that if we get two draws and Italy beat Bulgaria, that would get us second but 12 points (discounting the Georgia 6) might see us miss out as worst second place team, if the Scots beat the Dutch.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
Now that we've beaten Cyprus, a draw between Italy and Bulgaria is the dream result for us. 2 wins would then win us the group, and even if we lost to Italy we'd still be grand for the playoffs as long as we beat Montenegro.
It's unlikely that Bulgaria would win, but if they did, they'd still have to win in Cyprus to put us in trouble. They didn't win in Ireland, Georgia or Montenegro, so theres nothing to suggest they'll win both of those games.
They're probably sickened by our late winner as well. They were right back in it if we drew tonight, now it looks very unlikely.
that's why i said 'almost certainly'... their gd is currently 1 goal better than ours, and if they won three games and we got a win and a draw.... i think their gd is going to be better if that happensQuote:
Originally Posted by elroy
i didn't want to add things unnecessarily and was trying to simplify things, though i suppose there is always the chance they could draw with cyprus away.
anyway, if bulgaria beat italy and we draw with italy, we still probably finish beneath italy and probably bulgaria too. we can be agreed, bulgaria winning is a bad thing.
MAybe it was someone who fouled Duff who got a second yellow, I was watching on a choppy stream, bit hard to tell what was happening half the time, even missed the end of the game as the person streaming it put the TV guide on :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by EastTerracer
Yea I though something was wrong when he said "he will miss the match against Montenegro" and I just checked and of course our next match is Italy, it is Cyprus who play Montenegtro next so it make sense now, must have been a foul on not by Duff, Duff tends to avoid
getting too physical what with his injury proneness and all.
The Bulgaria Italy match is a funny one for us, if Bulgaria win it is good for us topping the group however if Italy win it is good for a runner up place,Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
also I think a draw would be a great result as it takes two points off both.
I think I need to get my big calculator out for this one :D
You won't need your calculator, I'm going to post up an automated permutations calculator in a few minutes :)
Just prolonging the agony. Even if we somehow get to the playoffs the chances of getting any team as weak as the ones we have played in this group is very slim. We beat Cyprus to-night because they were missing their best players. At no stage in this match did I think we would win it.
We can’t retain possession, we can’t pass the ball and we can’t hold on to a lead. I don’t care what anyone says we have to pray that some left back appears out of nowhere, Steven Reid get fit and Trapp calls up Andy Reid.
thing is, in terms of us topping the group, a draw is as good as bulgaria winning (it means the italians go two points clear, or stay one clear... which makes no difference even if we beat them and draw with montenegro and they draw level, because their gd is so superior)Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
in terms of finishing second, a draw is almost as good as an italian win (it means we'd need three points rather than two to finish second, that's it), but a bulgarian win leaves them two points down on us, with a superior gd.... not what we want
in relatively simple terms
italian win .... we need 2 points for second, 6 for first, with italy drawing v cyprus or losing.
bulgaria win .... we need 6 points for first, anything less and we need one of italy or bulgaria to drop points for us to get second.... otherwise it is third
draw .... we need 3 points for second, 6 for first, less if there are upsets in the other games
Christ that was painful but a win is a win.....and I'm starting to buy into the Trap is a lucky manager theory!
I must confess that my heart skips a beat any time the ball is within 30 metres of our back 4 at the moment. Dunne is normally solid but wasn't at the races today. Kilbane is Kilbane but I thought O'Shea was ok.
Our central midfield pairing once again let the game pass them by. Hopefully Steven Reid can play a part against Italy. The two lads try but they cannot grab a game by the scruff of the neck and drive the team forward.
The ref didn't do anybody any favours. He does realise that players are allowed to compete for headers and now and physical contact is allowed in certain situations?
All in all a shocking performance and I still cannot believe we are still in with a chance of automatic qualification.
I think Bulgaria winning is all round the worst result. If they win, we still will need to beat Italy to go above Italy, if its a draw, we still need to beat Italy to win the group. So a draw gives us a realistic chance of topping the group, an Italian win means we're just playing for points to get a playoff spot, a Bulgarian win and all three places are undecided.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Current standing
Italy 17
Ireland 16
Bulgaria 11
I think likely results, say
Ita Bul - draw
Cyp Bul - Bul win
Ire Ital - draw
Ire Mont - Ire win
Bul Geo - Bul win
Ital Cyp - Ita win
will leave group as follows:
Italy 22
Ireland 20
Bulgaria 18
The home game against Montenegro could be the most nervous of the lot, as it is likely we will need to win to guarantee a play off spot.........Well at least its a nice change from this stage in the last campaign!!!
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/prelimi...479/index.html
I agree with all of this totally. I mean I was REALLY ****ed off during the game and then I see Portugal for example are probably out of it, and I am thankful but.........I just keep wondering is this team EVER going to put in a good performance?Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Some people say, only results matter but come on.....
and Steven Hunt is awful I said it before and I spent some time watching Notre Dame but I couldnt stop thinking about how bad Hunt was....McGeady looked uneasy but I still never ever want to see Hunt start again. I really think he was that bad. It looked like he never touched a soccer ball in his life.
i just hope the cyprus v bulgaria game is over before we start v italy... ours is 7:45, hopefully theirs is earlier.... not likely to be 9:45pm local time, when both bulgaria and cyprus are two hours ahead of us and used to the daytime heat.... hopefully its early and hopefully bulgaria drop points!
According to fifa site, both kick off at same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
The good players we have are not encouraged to play football. Its a results game for a manager. It would be more entertaining watching paint dry.
I honestly didnt think Hunt was that bad today. He did a lot of hard work. Duff at this stage has no pace and will just look for a free kick at any opportunity, though he can still deliver a good ball if he gets far enough forward and McGeady just ruins all his good work by trying to do too much and falling over. Personally I would still have Hunt in the team ahead of either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
Hunt is rated condsiderable higher than borh Duff and McGeady on Skysports, for what it is worth...Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
Incidently is that the second time in a row Keane has scored with a header?
I'm very thankful that we have the three points. Yes, we were lucky, but three points is three points.
I believe that Trapattoni is getting the best out of the resources available, (or that he has made available).
Whenever I see an Irish side with a midfield four that includes Andrews, Whelan and Hunt I do despair somewhat. Lets not kid ourselves, they are all average players. What I expect from them is a certain level of competency - to succeed in carrying out the basics of the game. Sadly, even here, they often fall short.
With that midfield we have no divine right to win any match or qualify for any tournament, indeed getting there would be a major achievement.
Trapattoni knows this and so do our more accomplished players in defence and attack which explains why they often bypass the midfield during the game.
In my view, we can just be thankful for were we are and keep our fingers crossed that Stephen Reid returns fit and healthy, and that Darron Gibson fulfills on his undoubted promise.
Problem with that is that its not Italy we were playing against it was a cyprus. A team which boasts all its players from a country which is give or take the same standard as our league. Bohemians would be of the same level as that team tonight and on many nights would beat them and thats definetly not an overstatement.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
Our players limitations shouldn't be exposed against teams of the level of Cyprus. At that level we should look a class above.
Jeez did we watch the same game? Nothing personal against the man but Hunt was really bad, no offense i cant understand seeing it any other way. PS they scored when he went off! And falling over? Hunt was on his ass half the game come on!!! Even if you LIKE Hunt it is clear he was awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiffRaff
Trap was relieved with the win but not too pleased with the performance in his post match interview, mentioned anxious about 10 times. I don't have it recorded.
afair he remarked
After 15 minutes midfield was lost, play was too anxious and full of fear.
In the 1/2 time break he blasted them in the dressing room.
Then came improvement.
he said we have improved as a team but we have to be more clever, break up the play or something? In training we practice 2 touch passing - implying that what was practiced was not seen on the pitch.
I understood he said that the long balls out were a necessary part of the game plan.
yes, both kick off at the same time local time, but they are two hours ahead of us.....Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
also, they say ours is at 20:00 when it is quite definitely at 19:45
i saw that already, but didn't trust it, given that our time was wrong.
All those people who pray for a win under any circumstance have nothing to complain about, their prayers have been answered.
Just it fécks it up for the rest us who want a quality win.
Stuff your quality I wil stick with my prayers, ;):D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manc Irish Wolf
Jesus Manc, I hope you had a few quid on that!!!
I thought Kilbane was better than O'Shea other than ducking out of that header that could have cost us a goal.
Dunne was sloppy and could have given away a penalty. Twice.
Hunt was no worse than Duff but taking him off for McGeady was probably the best option.
Whelan would have got man of the match if his volley went in. Did nothing wrong and him and Andrews actually did okay. He's a very easy target for the sceptical's.
Keane did fcuk all other than cushion a header for Whelan's volley and score the header. Getting man of the match was ridiculous. Crap again!!!
Great to get the 3 points. Very hard to watch though!!!
I was glad we got the result, but I was cringing at our performance - especially the second half.
the results of the Limerick jury
Shay Given: denied the Cypriots at 1-0, but other than the goal, don't remember him having a shot to save
John O’Shea: Didn't push forward as much as against Australia, but this is a good thing as it gave the 2 centre halves an out ball when under pressure
Richard Dunne: Rock. You know the score with Dunne at this stage. Some close calls with Okkas went his way, but he's still the best centre half available to us
Sean St Ledger : Didn't display any of the weaknesses associated with a lack of fitness.
Kevin Kilbane: Still the weak link, but I would expect better teams to exploit this. Little to call between the 2 full backs to be honest
Stephen Hunt: Ran like a mad dog and tired himself out. Could have made the difference, but faded badly. Needs to learn when to hold and when to fold
Glenn Whelan: Thought he was the more impressive of the centre midfield pairing. Worked hard to regain possession, and made the best of it when in control. Could easily have made it 2-1 were it not for an exceptional save from their keeper
Keith Andrews: A snap shot could have made it 2-1 in the first half. Kept it tidy, but never excelled. Same as the majority of the starting XI
Damien Duff: Had the beating of both full backs. Came up trumps when it counted. 9's all around from the judges for the dive
Robbie Keane: Anonymous except for one header. But that's what makes good strikers
Kevin Doyle: Hard to believe it's a year since his last international goal. Worked harder than Keane, without the payoff. Still the ideal number 2 for Robbie
Subs:
Aiden McGeady: Thought he would have more of an impact. Kept possession at an important time, but not as effective as I would have liked him to be
Caleb Folan: See above. A fine alternative to Doyle/Morrison/Keogh, but really needs to find the back of the net. On the other hand...Emile Heskey...
It's 2-1. It's 3 points. People groaned at the victory over England in the Six Nations (I was there) but when the final whistle blew against Wales, did anyone care? Hell no! If this gets us qualification to South Africa, will anyone care? Hell No!
Yes it was a laboured win, but so was the 1-0 home win over the same opposition. But it proves that this team, this squad, is learning how to play for Trapattoni, under Trapattoni's rules. And return a positive result under those rules.
A little under 2 years ago we drew 2-2 with Wales, in a game that meant nothing other than bragging rights over our local rivals. Today, we still hold our destiny in our own hands, something none of said local rivals, bar England, can say.
So Trapattoni was lucky to beat Cyprus twiceQuote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Trapattoni was lucky to come from behind to draw 1-1 with Italy (the World Champions)
Trapattoni was lucky to come from behind to beat Georgia
Trapattoni was lucky to draw with Bulgaria twice (despite never being behind against them)
at what point does Trapattoni stop being lucky and start being good?
(BTW shakermaker1982 this is not an attack on you, more a general observation of the team under Trappatoni)
Have to say I'm a happy man now, but I never cursed at an Irish team so much in my life before. They were very poor tonight.
O’Shea had a dreadful first half, settled a bit in second.
Dunne could have given away 3 penos with a different ref, looked clumbsy.
SSL struggled in my opinion, even under the high ball never looked assured.
Kilbane didn't do much wrong, they never managed to expose him and he could have scored a goal from the header in first half.
Duff done ok, won a lot of free kicks, some obvious dives
Whelan anonymous for a lot of the game, although in his defence he worked hard defensively
Andrews read Whelan
Hunt: what ever chance he has of making an impact was negated when he was placed on the right wing (in his case the wrong wing)
Keane was dreadful in first half improved in second. Wonderful finish, brave not his usual type of goal.
Doyle was one of the few who had a good first half, faded in second. Good finish for goal.
McGeady didn't really do much, I thought he could have done better when he made that run from his own half.
Folan made a nuicence of himself without doing much.
All in all a great result. Hard to watch. The big test comes next month. How good are Italy? Are they worthy world champions or are they finished like they showed in the confederate cup. Time will tell. I will kneel down and pray that Stephen Reid is fully fit for the game in October. I think he will improve our chances of beating them by 25% if he plays.