Bulgaria had all the possession, well most of it, yes. But how many times did they cut us open? The real world is that our system is better suited to playing away from home anyway. We won't be beaten by Cyprus in Nicosia, I fancy us to get a point in Sofia too.
Again, we hardly beat an injury ravaged Cyprus in Dublin. I think you might be drunk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicked
Yeah, a left back can't make much difference, because that is where we put our mate who's a bit rubbish when we play 5-a-side. Sure what difference does it make if it's McShane or Finnan.
Have. You. Got. Someone. Looking. After. You ?
Edit: a 1-0 win and a few blocked shots in the last ten minutes of a game does not mean we hardly deserved to beat Cyprus for gods sake.
Fine.You are entitled to your opinion and i hope you are right but i doubt it somehow.
We will be doing well to get 2nd spot. It's okay to draw with a good enough team at home if you have already got an away result against them. Now it adds a bit of pressure but not a heap.
The game looked a bit similar to the Cyprus game but in the flesh we look far from an effective force. There should of been enough in our team to nail the game in the first half instead we looked more clumsy, uncoordinated and out of sorts.
Ironically we have performed better under Stan against the Czechs and Germans at home.
.
Funny enough our best performance in the last few years was under Stan when we hammered Sweden in Dublin
Do NOT go there :DQuote:
Originally Posted by FarBeag
Yeah, I watched Georgia on TV and thought it was better than most people thought. I was in Dublin yesterday though and my God I could barely believe my eyes. I'm one of the more positive people around here but that was garbage yesterday. Nobody wanted the ball and nobody could even do the basics - you know, stuff like passing the bloody ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
McShane may be able to stop people playing football but he is not up to being a full back at that level. Did anyone notice that their full backs played a lot of the game deep in our half? Our full backs couldn't develop a photograph let alone develop play. O'Shea was culpable too, but did a midfielder ever show for him? Once even?
Whelan & Andrews did bits & pieces well at times - for about 10 effing minutes! The other 80 they were outplayed.
Hunt has no finesse whatsoever. No touch, no awareness.
McGeady didn't look fit. No blame to the front two - the service was appalling. It was like Italia 90 all over again - Bonner to Quinn / Given to Doyle.
Totally bankrupt performance. I'm not sure whether it's tactics or lack of ability but I think it's a bit of both. I'd say McShane is the most talentless full back playing anywhere in Europe last night. Full backs are an essential part of a team's attacking balance and both of ours were awful.
Coleman & Moloney did a far better job on Friday than our 2 last night and Eddie Nolan looked like he was happy on the ball, unlike O'Shea.
The group still looks manageable wrt 2nd place but we need a couple of good away results. With performances like last night it won't happen.
We really need Mc Shane out of the team for the game against Italy on Wed. Other than that there does not seem to be anything in the squad that can improve the team at this point.
I think Stephen Reid Carsley, Andy Reid and Ireland and Finnan S. Kelly and Foley would all impmrove the team if they were brough in for Whelan, Hunt and Mc Shane and Kilbane long term.
I said before yesterday that we would draw with Bulgaria and beat Italy and I stand by that. We are set up as an away team. Italy will not score on Wednesday and we will sneak one.
PS Im not saying that we are a good side but Bulgaria are very very average. A Keano-Holland midfield would have secured a 3-0 win yesterday despite the managers cautious approach.
We will certainly do all not to get beat as thats Trapps MO weather home or away weather azzuri or a pub team,but if anyone thinks that Mcshane Killbane Whelan S.Hunt Andrews or half the sub bench are up to international football you are as deluded as the muppets who appointed Trapp,he compares whelan to cattuso says it all for me,kilbanes ball watching is schoolboy stuff,Mc shane is very lucky to be making money playing football worst Irish player ever and thats saying something and S.Hunts energy is no excuse for his lack of abilty.This side are due to be embarrased badly at some stage and the sooner the better for me so that we can get rid of Trap, Brady and the rest of the imposters who are picking a sub standard Irish squad.next ill be told we dont have the players well your wrong we dont have the management and as for our no sub till its too late ****** i give up.we have been garbage under Trap.Que the deranged muldooner response.........................
Steven Reid is a huge loss. Then Finnan.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
That was a totally dysfunctional "team" last night.
Ireland were muck and I think that along with me and everyone else in the stadium that that was the general consensus.
Paul McShane was an absolute joke. I have never seen a more poor excuse for a footballer. Thankfully my Mam has been called up for Wednesday night to replace him!:D
Glenn Whelan............was he playing??? Too quiet for a centre-mid!
and as for McGeady.......absolutely terrible, his worst game in an Ireland shirt!
Again I must go bac to Trappatoni's substitute policy or lack of it. The three mentioned above should have been hauled off with at least 20 mins to go.
There has to be changes in Italy otherwise were gonna get stuffed!:(
How Kevin Foley isn't getting a chance is beyond me?
Well, spot on so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by ken foree
Given that there'll probably be no changes to the squad, I'd select Gibson over Whelan to partner Andrews and hope to jaysus he plays as well as he can. Just drill in to him to look for it, find men, keep it moving...
A far more balanced XI for Wednesday would be:
Shay
Foley-Dunne-O'Shea-Delaney
McGeady-Gibson-Andrews-Kilbane
Keane--Doyle
You can point to the full backs' lack of experience all you like but nothing could be worse than the two that played on Saturday. Thse two are at least naturals in the position, bringing essential balance, & each can get forward when appropriate.
I'd play KK LHM because Hunt was basically a poor man's Kilbane last night, and Kilbane is only a poor man's Tony Galvin.
Honestly How would people feel If S.Ireland did come back now. firstly if he came back now ppl will prob say its so late, if by a freak of nature we qualify people will say hes a glory hunter. Ireland wouldnt of got the ball last night cause all we did was hoof it long and if he plays and we do this ppl will say hes crap anyway.
This is a good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manblue
I think it is interesting how Trapattoni seems interested in Steven Ireland returning to the team, even though he seems to want only defensive midfielders in the team. If he returned, would we suddenly start to pass the ball out of defence, or continue to hoof it long?
that match last night needed a reid, a fahey, a garvan to get on the ball and dictate. how can you pick two defensive midfielders who shirk away from the ball in a two man midfield? I'd understand if he was playing 3 in the middle but with two of the exact same players in the middle it doesn't look good for us. We'd be knocked out in the playoff by an anyway decent team. Sweden, Scotland, Poland, Belgium any of them.
Trap isnt interested in him, hence why he only made on attempt to get him back,Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
I dont think we would pass it out because we dont have the other players capable of doing it.
I honestly think that S. Reid is the player we most missed.
To use a rugby analogy, there's no point in having a great no. 10 if your pack turn the ball over every time they go into contact. In both codes, securing good possession is a prerequisite to your most creative players playing well.
the perfect midfield is steven reid, keith fahey and stephen ireland. imagine faheys passing ability, steven reids smart crisp short passing and steven ireland well he has everything. we'd be such a slick team and hard to beat as well.
this team would immediately make more sense to me. I remain unconvinced over Gibson but i think he would improve upon Whelan immensely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Belgium ?Quote:
Originally Posted by irishultra
Lost 4-2 at home to Bosnia last night.
I dont think so, but I take your point.
Picked the same team out last night. Kilbane is a liability at full back. But he offers more than Hunt going forward. McShane treats the ball like a hot potato. Terrible distibution. But Trap will not make the changes he needs to make. I have a horrible feeling Miller is going to play a part at some stage on Wednesday.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I'd say Bosnia would beat us tbh. Besides the point anyway, but look this is what Belgium can call from for midfield, Defour, Witsel, Felliani, Kompany etc.
Scotlands midfield has at least something about it, Brown, Fletcher and Ferguson, Swedends midfield looks a bit unispiring but you'd bet they wouldn't just blatantly allow a team to pass by them for 90 minutes.
Ours Andrews and Whelan, both players playing for poor teams and neither certain of a place. Same applies for Andy Reid, Steven Reid(derided by Blackburn fans) I know its for another day, but where are our players coming throug? Garvan, O'Toole, Gleeson, all alright but nothing that impressive. The only hope I can see is James McCarthy and he's not even born here(by that i mean not even 'produced' here) and hopefully be the 2012 campaign a Steven Ireland return.
I dislike him as much as you but even Miller would have tried to move it along late last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
If McGeady is out for Bari as is suggested then I can only think there are 2 candidates to play RHM - Miller & Keogh, and even Keogh only on the basis that Trap has picked him before.
Ireland are usless that mcshane is probely the worst player i have ever seen..O'dea with celtic should be starting
We have lost one friendly in 8 games. Yeah Bosnia would beat us all right. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by irishultra
We knew when getting Trap, that that's the way he plays. It has got us the results. It has got him results and trophies all his life. It's not pretty, but it's damn effective.
Too many people want entertainment over results. :rolleyes: When it's the latter, not the former we need.
Don't know where the Daily Mail gets their point system from. Seems they watched 5 minutes of the game and gave the rankings on that.
Hunt-8(Man of the match). They said that the Bulgarian defenders will be having nightmares about him. Excluding the first 30 seconds Hunt was poor and his touch was woeful.
Whealan 7, Andrews 5 - I thought Andrews was easily our better midfielder on the night. Think he wuld work very well beside S. Reid
Think last night should prove how vital Doyle is to our campaign. Much more important to us than Keane
Sorry for the long post, but having watched the full game again in the cold light of day, i have the following comments to make:
Post match reaction/Traps system:
Yes a missed opportunity, yes a disappointing performance but we are still in a very good position and its all in our own hands. The reaction of some of the press and some "fans" is unreal. Trap has a system in place that is not entertaining to watch but generally its effective. We knew when we hired Trap that this is the style of football that we would end up playing. As long as it gets the results that is the main thing.
The team is very organised from a defensive point of view. Bulgaria had the lions share of possession last night but if you look at the game again the vast majority of it was in front of and across Irelands midfield/defence. When they approached the last quarter, they were closed down by the midfielders. Generally this worked quite well and most of Bulgarias effort were from distance. The problem was when Ireland won the ball back they were unable to retain it for very long. Its not a positive system and not very pretty but Traps viewpoint is not to concede first and foremost.
A positive of this system is the strength of a centre back pairing. The way the system operates should suit the type of game that Wed is likely to be. Unfortunately I feel Italy will have enough quality to break it down. But the way this system works, Ireland will never concede many goals.
S Reid/Possession:
The biggest flaw in the performance last night was the inability of our team to maintain possession. Our central midfielders lack the talent to take the ball down and play it around. Hopefully S Reid will return for the game in June. He is exactly the type of player we need. Someone who is comfortable in possession of the ball and can dictate the play.
Full backs performance:
Poor performance by both KK and McShane last night. Really offered little going forward and the midfield suffered as a result. McShane had a number of opportunities to put in a cross last night but declined each time. He also was fortunate with a number of back passes left short. KK has one of his worst games for Ireland last night but I expect the guy to atone for this on wed night. He is still in general a solid left back.
Hunt V Duff:
Hunt started the game on fire but unfortunately lacked the skill to take on his man and put in a cross. Duff brings a level of creativity to our game that unfortunately Hunt cant. He also faded quite badly as the game went on and a frustrating trait of Traps is his resistant to bring on a sub. I really feel fresh legs shouldve been utilised with about 15 mins to go, with Hunt the obvious replacement. I agree that the bench is quite limited and didnt offer many alternatives.
Disgraceful booing:
That t*at who has just posted a new thread about getting rid of Trap is obviously the type of individual who booed the team like night. Nothing short of fcuking disgraceful. What has become of this country. This team is getting the results, yes its not playing pretty football but this is a results business and at the end of the campaign if we're off to the WC, no one will complain. The level of booing at the end was disgraceful last night and is indicative of a section of the crowd that has appeared since we moved to croker that will hopefully disappear once we return to LR. We as supporters are there to support the team, alot of people doesnt seem to grasp this!! If you go to a game to be entertained then please stay away, go the cinema or a concert, please dont attend unless you are going to support your country. At this stage, i look forward to the support at away games more than home games.
S I/A Reid
People can make arguments for the inclusion of A Reid in the squad, i respect that. But please stop this talk of calling for S Ireland return. HE DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY FOR US ACCEPT IT -END OF!!!
Finally, when you see clowns calling for Traps head, it just makes my blood boil. If at the end of the campaign, we have failed to qualify then certain criticism will be justified. However with the results achieved already we are likely to finish this group with more points than the last campaign at least, so even in a worse case scenario that will be an improvement.
Given - 7
McShane - 3
O'Shea - 7
Dunne - 7
Kilbane - 3
McGeady - 4
Whelan - 3
Andrews - 6
Hunt - 4
Keane - 4
Doyle - 7
It was like watching Wimbledon in their pomp. We might as well drop Keane and bring in Doherty if we're just going to lump it long every time we have the ball.
The two full backs were twitchy all night long and did not look comfortable at all. Kilbane should have been replaced - his head was gone. Brilliant servant to the Irish team but he is not a left back. Whelan looks like a lost boy in the middle of the park.
The team looked out on their feet after the hour mark (not surprising since Bulgaria were playing keep ball for the majority of the match) and the Trap only brings a sub on in the 90th minute? Baffling. Fresh legs can change games. Why not take one of the strikers off and put on an extra central midfielder when it was clear for all to see that Bulgaria were dominating possession?
Ok we haven't got many top players but surely we can muster a better performance than that? What we lack in skill can be compensated by endeavour and aggression. Instead we looked flat and short of courage in terms of taking the game by the scruff of the neck after we took the lead.
i was in the lower davin last night and didnt hear any boos at the end?
was there much of it???
I was in the signing section and didn't hear anything but it was pretty clear on TV.Quote:
Originally Posted by aidz1
I agree with some of your points, by the way I couldnt even be bothered booing because the game was so mind numbing and really not good for the health. Booing is never constructive and sends out a bad impression but it is clear that their are alot of people who are getting frustrated and its not just because of last nights game. A few people on here act like they personally own the Irish football team, we already have enough idiots working for the FAIQuote:
Originally Posted by elroy
My prediction came true, though from the other way around - Ireland were the ones who went ahead and it was Bulgaria who battled to get the point & fair play to them for showing more will to win.
Where's our guile? Where's our desire? More importantly, where's the strategy to get the 3 points? How was this any better to the 89 minute defensive game we played against Israel all those moons ago when Kerr's conservative ways garnered scorn and an eventual sacking?
I don't mind bowing to a superior team so long as I felt we did our best. We didn't even do our worst, we just didn't look like wanting to play. Am I the only one who thinks we haven't played with any conviction since the era of McCarthy? I'm not so much angry as just flat disappointed.
Cannot understand people booing their own team.Fcuking mindless idiots. I thought the crowd were great for the most part, trying to get behind the team despite the frustration that went with the performance. Guy beside me was hollering abuse at Robbie Keane every time he got the ball. Why do these people go to the games?? Can you call yourself a supporter if you consistently abuse the team captain?Quote:
Originally Posted by cestlavie
Given - had 4 shots to save, and stopped them all. No chance with the OG
McShane - Poor in the first half, marginally better in the second. At best, he's third choice right full
Dunne - Sixth goal in Irish colours, and solid in central defence. Thought the ref got some of the decisions against him completely wrong
O'Shea - One poor tackle aside, solid enough. Despite the form of the full backs, I don't see this partnership being broken up anytime soon
Kilbane - You know what you're going to get with Kilbane. No lack of effort, but sometimes that's not enough. Links far better with Duff than Hiunt. Desperately unlucky with the OG.
McGeady - He's is never going to score for Ireland. Replay of his shot made it look better than from where I was sitting. Should have torn his opposing full back a new one. Can't decide if it's ability or the tactics that were against him
Andrews - Stepped up in the second half and actually started closing down players. Needs a better partner in central midfield
Whelan - Anonymous. Static. Had a great shot in the first half though
Hunt - It's been said enough times, he's far better as an impact sub.
Keane - Worked hard, but at 5"8, why was he expected to do with constant long balls?
Doyle - Worked harder than Keane, chased down defenders, but was feeding off scraps
Keogh - I can understand why he was brought on, but it should have been at least 15 minutes earlier
Having watched the game and the "we're better than this" comments, consider this. We've been away from home against "inferior" opposition that refused to give us space, let us play and completely shut down our playmakers - Liechtenstein, Macedonia (repeatedly), Austria, Poland. Consider again what we just did to Bulgaria. Welcome to the other side of the argument.
A few months ago, I made a comment that our players can't play several different tactical systems. We can't go from massed defence to free flowing attacking football in subsequent games. However, having spent an entire game shutting down Bulgaria, it's going to be easier to repeat the same tactics against Italy.
We may not agree with Trapattoni's tactics, but who here can honestly say that, if you knew we'd be unbeaten after 5 games, second in the group, 7 points clear of third and looking good for a play off, that you wouldn't want him appointed following 5 months of searching for a manager?
I was in the lower Cusack and you could hear it all right. Out of 10 I'd say it was a 3/4. Half hearted really but still not something you want to hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by aidz1
the points that I have made all along since Traps first game in qualifiers shone through again on saturday night. Mcgeady is not good enough, whelan is looking for a part in the remake of invisible man, he is not good enough and just sits back and does nothing. Hunt is at best an impact subandno where near the ability of duff, again saturday night showed how important duff is to us. im not so sure about kilbane being unlucky, watch it again and see how he opened his foot to tap/place it in rather than blast it out to the right, he clearly tried to place it, instead of hoofing it out to his right. I really dont know what he was at then.
biggest disappointment is the lack of intensity off the ball. We dont have the players to sit back and defend for a whole game. We need to have that "put em under pressure" tactic when we dont have the ball, because we cant match the technical ability of the continentals when holding the ball and spraying it about.
I reckon Trap did an audit of our capabilities at the start and thought we have good wide players, a couple of decent CBs and a couple of good forwards. The rest are makeweights.
He set up the team in a solid 4-4-2 to utilise this (hardly rocket science). However, once the wide players are injured (Duff out, McGeady clearly not fit) the whole plan is blown apart.
I was expecting subtle solutions to our problems, like 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-2-1 but as he sees that our 2 best attacking players are wide players none of this has been possible. He has stubbornly insisted on the original plan and nothing else.
I'd love to see, at least as an alternative, a narrower team with creativity in the middle, with the width coming from our full backs. That'd require proper full backs playing full back.