Republic of Ireland V Serbia - Saturday, 24th May 2008 - Friendly

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Thats a ridiculous post.First of all ,Dunne very moblie and doesnt need help there, people see his size and just automatically assume he is slow and he is far from it, and Secondly Steven Reid has never played Center half in professional football so to start him there at international level would be stupid, especially considering how good a central midfielder he is and how vital he could be to us in the qualifiers in that position. If we had any midfielder that could be converted to a defender it would be Joey O Brien, he did well there against Germany, but unless he plays in that position regularly for his club we shouldnt even consider him there

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So what do we do then, play McShane there? That's really logical. Joey O'Brien is a decent option, but not as good as Reid.

I know he hasn't played there but Reid has all the attributes of a fine center half. Just think "what would Jack Charlton have done?" (and don't give me a 'Jack Charlton just hoofed the ball forward' reply). The point is that Charlton was far and away our most successful manager because he identified weaknesses in the Irish team (like the big hole beside Dunne) and plugged the most sensible option in there - even if he was playing out of position.

Now maybe Delaney could grow into that position, but I don't think we've seen enough of him yet, but it has to be someone fast and strong in the tackle.

And you say Dunne isn't slow. Let's talk again when the Cypriot, Bulgarian or Montenegran number nines come calling. Dunne was shown up for his lack of pace in the last campaign and although we watch him week in and week out for Man City, he's not half as good as the Premier League commentators make him out to be. You'll not win a ball off him in the air and his positional sense has gotten better but he is still very vulnerable on the floor to a bit of speed.

Building from the back is what all the best teams have done - we need to start there.

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Originally Posted by mark12345

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Thats a ridiculous post.First of all ,Dunne very moblie and doesnt need help there, people see his size and just automatically assume he is slow and he is far from it, and Secondly Steven Reid has never played Center half in professional football so to start him there at international level would be stupid, especially considering how good a central midfielder he is and how vital he could be to us in the qualifiers in that position. If we had any midfielder that could be converted to a defender it would be Joey O Brien, he did well there against Germany, but unless he plays in that position regularly for his club we shouldnt even consider him there

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So what do we do then, play McShane there? That's really logical. Joey O'Brien is a decent option, but not as good as Reid.

I know he hasn't played there but Reid has all the attributes of a fine center half. Just think "what would Jack Charlton have done?" (and don't give me a 'Jack Charlton just hoofed the ball forward' reply). The point is that Charlton was far and away our most successful manager because he identified weaknesses in the Irish team (like the big hole beside Dunne) and plugged the most sensible option in there - even if he was playing out of position.

Now maybe Delaney could grow into that position, but I don't think we've seen enough of him yet, but it has to be someone fast and strong in the tackle.

And you say Dunne isn't slow. Let's talk again when the Cypriot, Bulgarian or Montenegran number nines come calling. Dunne was shown up for his lack of pace in the last campaign and although we watch him week in and week out for Man City, he's not half as good as the Premier League commentators make him out to be. You'll not win a ball off him in the air and his positional sense has gotten better but he is still very vulnerable on the floor to a bit of speed.

Building from the back is what all the best teams have done - we need to start there.

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I didnt say that we should play McShane there.But it makes no sense to take out one of better midfielders and put him into a position where he has never played in his life.John O Shea and Andy oBrien(Im confident he will be back) are both better options there. Ive havent seen enough of St Ledger but alot of people seem to rate him highly and at least he is a specialist center half. To start playing players in areas that they have never played before is not something Charlton would have done, more like something Steve Staunton was excellent at....and look how well he did!
As for Richard Dunne being over rated by Premiership commentators, well he has just won Manchester Citys player of the year award for the 4th year running and is our current player of the year so I think he deserves a bit of credit

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Great to see Kiely back, just the presence we need. Delaney impressed me too. Just look what happens when Keogh, a forward, is played as, eh, a forward. Long looked lively and athletic and Murphy added something. Doyle was off the pace but he's had a long tough season and, yet again, it's hard to fault either Robbie or him because the service was so shocking. Nevertheless his place is becoming very much under pressure.

Hunt had a very poor game.

I still have a feeling that playing some form of 3 man midfield may be Trap's favoured "solution" in the near to medium term.

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Agreed on Kiely. Always thought he was as good as Given on his day. Thought Delaney was good but he seems to be getting a fair bit of criticism in the papers. I think the long ball from the defence into the space eithr side of the front two seemed to be a tactic as opposed to due to lack of options in midfield. Think Long looked sharp when he came on. Best bit of the nite for me was the celebrations of the bench.:)

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

I didnt say that we should play McShane there.But it makes no sense to take out one of better midfielders and put him into a position where he has never played in his life.John O Shea and Andy oBrien(Im confident he will be back) are both better options there. Ive havent seen enough of St Ledger but alot of people seem to rate him highly and at least he is a specialist center half. To start playing players in areas that they have never played before is not something Charlton would have done, more like something Steve Staunton was excellent at....and look how well he did!
As for Richard Dunne being over rated by Premiership commentators, well he has just won Manchester Citys player of the year award for the 4th year running and is our current player of the year so I think he deserves a bit of credit

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The problem here is that no one in the Ireland set up (apart from Alan Kelly) can see that St Ledger is the man to play along side Dunne.

So they will continue blindly picking the likes of McShane, Bruce, O'Dea etc, makes you wonder who goes out watching these players at their clubs.

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Originally Posted by the doc

The problem here is that no one in the Ireland set up (apart from Alan Kelly) can see that St Ledger is the man to play along side Dunne.

So they will continue blindly picking the likes of McShane, Bruce, O'Dea etc, makes you wonder who goes out watching these players at their clubs.

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In fairness this has being only the first game for them and they maybe have made a couple of mistakes excluding the likes of St Ledger and Lawyrence, but as Ive said Im only going on other peoples opinions of St Ledger as I havent seen enough of him to agree or disagree with his exclusion. The qualifying campaign goes on for the best part of 2 years and I have enough faith in the current management team that they will get it right sooner rather than later even if initally they make the odd mistake... if St Ledger is good enough he will be in the team in the near future

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

Do goals in the 6 yard box only count as half:rolleyes:

0.4 goals per game in the premiership and for Ireland is about as good as it gets, unless your name is Ronaldo:D

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Please give me his stats for the qualifiers for euro 2008 and the teams he scored against and his average rating. He is way over rated and I can't remember the last time he produced a good performance for Ireland.

Everyone thinks Kelly had a good game. Did he not get skinned four times in the first 20 mins by their winger ? Had a better second half alright.

Delaney defended (his first job) very well and looks promising, but his distribution was poor.

Hunt did nothing, Duff flattered to deceive. Still not convinced Miller has a future.

Would like to see Long/Keane or Murphy/Keane given a run out.

McShane was 100% totally at fault for the goal. If one of my u9s did that I'd shoot him. You can see Dunne roaring at him after.

Going back to Kelly/Delaney and Murphy, maybe Trap has identified our need for more height in the team (Murphys knock on for the goal from the throw in looked rehearsed). If thats the case expect O'Shea at centre half on Thursday.

PS Tardelli's reaction to the goal was like a flashback to the 82 WC Final.

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Originally Posted by finnpark

I can't remember the last time he produced a good performance for Ireland.

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Last night it seems he did everything that was asked of him.

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Going back to Kelly/Delaney and Murphy, maybe Trap has identified our need for more height in the team (Murphys knock on for the goal from the throw in looked rehearsed). If thats the case expect O'Shea at centre half on Thursday.

PS Tardelli's reaction to the goal was like a flashback to the 82 WC Final.

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There was a touch of the Jack Charlton's to yesterdays game. Large lads, long balls to the wings and a set piece that worked. Maybe Trap is a closet JC fan.

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Originally Posted by finnpark

Please give me his stats for the qualifiers for euro 2008 and the teams he scored against and his average rating. He is way over rated and I can't remember the last time he produced a good performance for Ireland.

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Oh dear.

His average rating? Your having a laugh mate. Where do you get that? From The Sun or somewhere. Robbie is our best attacking player and won't be dropped so I'm not going to waste my time pointing out the reasons why that is.

Thought we were decent last night. Whelan was impressive in spells. To be fair he showed for every ball from the back four but didn't always get it. He doesn't seem to do enough to be first choice but is worth a place in the squad.

McShane was poor again. He is getting slated too much, mostly probably by the same people who hailed him two years ago, but he's not good enough for the first team. O'Shea or one of the O'Brien's need to start there. Delaney, IMO, did well but he may not be good enough for a qualifying campaign. Miller was anonymous again, Hunt wasn't great but deserves another chance (I've always reckoned he's nothing more than an impact sub but he may prove me wrong) and Duff showed flashes of why we need him in top form.

Hard to judge the strikers, the service was muck. So too was Dunne's distribution, absolutely awful.

Decent start if a terrible game.

It has been a long season for all the players. I am sure Keane,Doyle,Dunne & co. are looking forward to well deserved break after a long and hard premiership season. To expect them to be firing on all cylinders against a young and energetic Serbian team is not being very realistic.

True that players should give 100% every time they pull on a green jersey but last night was merely a ice-breaker for Trap and team to get an introduction to the supporters of the green army. I felt the result accurately reflected the state of our national team post-Staunton.

Anyone who was at the game will have noticed the inexperienced referee Lee Evans from Wales (Welsh league referee) making an absolute haims of the game. Never playing advantage, slowing the game down for needless free-kicks and hop-balls, appeasing the young Serbian drama society made the game a slow and drippy one.

All in all this was a nothing game that is not worth reading a lot into. Considering we had a weakened and inexperienced team we came out ok and salvaged some dignity. We have learnt yesterday much of what we already know. McShane is not intelligent enough for top flight football, Miller is not influential enough, we need strength in Midfield and Defence, a job which Liam Brady will be extremely capable of given his scouting/coaching exploits for the Gooners.

Rome wasn't built in a day, see you in Craven cottage!



See post match analysis and interviews:-
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/audiovideo_index.html

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

There was a touch of the Jack Charlton's to yesterdays game. Large lads, long balls to the wings and a set piece that worked. Maybe Trap is a closet JC fan.

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Did we really play that many long balls? Was at the game and it seemed like the focus was keeping the ball even if it meant going back to one of the centre backs or Kiely. Looked nothing like a JC performance to me (although I might stand corrected).

What about Kelly at centre half with Dunne? Especially if Finnan returns.

Kelly has played for Birmingham at centre half at times.

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Originally Posted by barney

Did we really play that many long balls? Was at the game and it seemed like the focus was keeping the ball even if it meant going back to one of the centre backs or Kiely. Looked nothing like a JC performance to me (although I might stand corrected).

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Its true, the midfield was just negative, Miller does not inspire confidence and he never looked for the positive pass to Doyle, Keane, Duff every time it was layed back to Dunne for to be hoofed. It showed that there is little confidence amongst the team at the moment.

I have read on Whelan "Whelan is at home in a role of a midfield playmaker where his assets, such as creativity, great range of passing and fantastic first touch can be used to full effect." I did not see a great deal of this yesterday but given it was his debut the experience for him is greater than his performance.

Holy **** HM I didn't even realize it was you/that you were here too without your proper avatar

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

In fairness this has being only the first game for them and they maybe have made a couple of mistakes excluding the likes of St Ledger and Lawyrence, but as Ive said Im only going on other peoples opinions of St Ledger as I havent seen enough of him to agree or disagree with his exclusion. The qualifying campaign goes on for the best part of 2 years and I have enough faith in the current management team that they will get it right sooner rather than later even if initally they make the odd mistake... if St Ledger is good enough he will be in the team in the near future

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Thats a fair point, but they must stop listening and taking advice from DG, for me thats the root of the problem!

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Originally Posted by southbucket2001

What about Kelly at centre half with Dunne? Especially if Finnan returns.

Kelly has played for Birmingham at centre half at times.

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We can't play McShane as its like giving the opposition a goal start. The thought of Toni or Barbatov against McShane is scary stuff. Playing Kelly at center half is worth a tryout before the serious games start. I would even consider trying out Delaney at center half.

Watched a bit of it again there (sky plus). It ****es me off that the sky commentators cant even pronounce players names. Who is Andy Key-hoo. Reminds me of Mark Kin Sella. Idiots

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Originally Posted by the doc

Thats a fair point, but they must stop listening and taking advice from DG, for me thats the root of the problem!

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Definately, but I think that Givens was just used until they got bedded into the job and got to know the player pool...... hopefully

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

We can't play McShane as its like giving the opposition a goal start. The thought of Toni or Barbatov against McShane is scary stuff. Playing Kelly at center half is worth a tryout before the serious games start. I would even consider trying out Delaney at center half.

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Agree that Toni or Berbatov would be too good for McShane, particularly with his confidence as low as it is at present, but Kelly is not strong enough to be a centre back and is prone to the same mistakes as McShane but they are not as costly because of where he plays. Wouldn't even contemplate Delaney at centre back to be honest. Too inexperienced and showed nothing last night to suggest he could cope.

Has to be Joey O'Brien, Andy O'Brien or O'Shea.