Ireland 0-0 Germany- Post game thread

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15/10/2007, 2:39 PM
bigmac

correct me if i'm wrong, but did Keane not set up Stephen Ireland's goal against Wales with a lovely through ball? He also left a dummy run through to Ireland for his goal against Slovakia.
He's a good player playing in an average team. Week in, week out he plays in a better team and consequently scores more goals. His conversion rate of chances is not great, but that's just the way it is, and the team will just have to deal with it.
He has proven over the last few years that he is Ireland's best striker, so the question for those calling for his head is to identify a better partner ship than Keane and someone else.

I do agree though that he shouldn't be immune from substitutions.
15/10/2007, 2:43 PM
carloz

[QUOTE=bigmac;790847]
He has proven over the last few years that he is Ireland's best striker, so the question for those calling for his head is to identify a better partner ship than Keane and someone else.[QUOTE]

No he has proven he is a very good striker with Spurs. He has proved nothing with Ireland since the World Cup. He manages to score against Mickey Mouse(or as Dunphy would call them rinky dink) teams. On the big occasions when he is really needed time and time again he fails to deliver.
15/10/2007, 2:45 PM
mackannovic

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmac

correct me if i'm wrong, but did Keane not set up Stephen Ireland's goal against Wales with a lovely through ball? He also left a dummy run through to Ireland for his goal against Slovakia.
He's a good player playing in an average team. Week in, week out he plays in a better team and consequently scores more goals. His conversion rate of chances is not great, but that's just the way it is, and the team will just have to deal with it.
He has proven over the last few years that he is Ireland's best striker, so the question for those calling for his head is to identify a better partner ship than Keane and someone else.

I do agree though that he shouldn't be immune from substitutions.

David Healy has 12 goals, 4 times that of Robbie Keane and he's in a team that lets face it is full of sh*t.
15/10/2007, 2:45 PM
bigmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by carloz

No he has proven he is a very good striker with Spurs. He has proved nothing with Ireland since the World Cup. He manages to score against Mickey Mouse(or as Dunphy would call them rinky dink) teams. On the big occasions when he is really needed time and time again he fails to deliver.

He has scored more than any other Irish striker in both club and interntional games, who is a better striker than him in your opinion? :confused:
15/10/2007, 2:48 PM
carloz

Quote:

He has scored more than any other Irish striker in both club and interntional games, who is a better striker than him in your opinion?

Not this argument again, look at the opposition. On the big occasions he has not done it since the 2002 World Cup. Kevin Doyle has scored 2 significant goals in this campaign, Keane has scored none. Long, a squad player for Reading, looked more dangerous in his 20 mins on the pitch than Keane had in the whole game. Says it all really
15/10/2007, 2:57 PM
bigmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by carloz

Not this argument again, look at the opposition. On the big occasions he has not done it since the 2002 World Cup. Kevin Doyle has scored 2 significant goals in this campaign, Keane has scored none. Long, a squad player for Reading, looked more dangerous in his 20 mins on the pitch than Keane had in the whole game. Says it all really

Stephen Ireland scored 2 significant goals as well, let's play him up front.
Anyway, I didn't realise that scoring goals shouldn't be how a striker is measured. :rolleyes: If you reckon that Keane should be at best 3rd choice Irish striker at the moment then fine, we'll agree to differ.
At least he's getting himself in a position for chances, Keane had 2 good chances of which he should have converted at least one, so how does that make him less dangerous than Long?
15/10/2007, 3:14 PM
mackannovic

You have to agree that he should be making more of an impact than 3 goals in a nothing match, over the course of a qualifying campaign.
15/10/2007, 3:18 PM
Marked Man

Should and has.

Made the goal for Stephen Ireland against Slovakia. Did the same in the Wales game.
15/10/2007, 3:20 PM
lionelhutz

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmac

Stephen Ireland scored 2 significant goals as well, let's play him up front.Anyway, I didn't realise that scoring goals shouldn't be how a striker is measured. :rolleyes: If you reckon that Keane should be at best 3rd choice Irish striker at the moment then fine, we'll agree to differ.
At least he's getting himself in a position for chances, Keane had 2 good chances of which he should have converted at least one, so how does that make him less dangerous than Long?

That actually may not be a bad idea. He's an excellent finisher and has the skill to take on and beat players one on one. He disappears from games in centre mid but would definitely have the confidence to play as a striker

I'd love to see him given a go up top
15/10/2007, 3:22 PM
bigmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by mackannovic

You have to agree that he should be making more of an impact than 3 goals in a nothing match, over the course of a qualifying campaign.

Do I agree that he's playing below par for Ireland? Yes.
Do I think it's all his fault, or an atitude problem? No.
Do I think Ireland has the luxury of being able to drop him? No.

I don't think that he's been playing particularly well, and maybe the captaincy is impacting on him more than he lets on, however gaining the captaincy at Spurs seemed to imporve his game there so it's hard to know. I feel, and the fact that he's getting (and missing) chances backs this up, that he's Ireland's best chance of a goal in most of our games. Ideally, I'd like to see him be more clinical as this is the major let down in his game at the moment.
15/10/2007, 3:37 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Actually the indo said that given was telling kelly to push on for the corner in the last min and staunton told kelly to stay back. Which, if true, is a disgrace. Happy with a point that knocks us out of the euros for definite but keeps our 'magnificent' home record intact

Point taken and that's what was written, my misunderstanding.

If it�s true then maybe there is a point but not quite in the disgrace level.

Quite possibly it is not true, we had amazing accounts here and in the media of Kerr ordering an advancing Roy Keane backwards in the away game against Israel when the truth was that Kerr was warning Kilbane that he was about to be closed down and to get rid of the effin ball.
When there is an agenda, media use all sorts of sh'ite to back up a point.

The same feckers would have been heavily criticizing McCarthy for taking off Harte in that game against Switzerland.

The simple facts are enough to judge Stan as a manager. He did better in this game than earlier games. There are still 2 games for him to prove himself.
15/10/2007, 4:17 PM
mackannovic

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmac

Do I agree that he's playing below par for Ireland? Yes.
Do I think it's all his fault, or an atitude problem? No.
Do I think Ireland has the luxury of being able to drop him? No.

I don't think that he's been playing particularly well, and maybe the captaincy is impacting on him more than he lets on, however gaining the captaincy at Spurs seemed to imporve his game there so it's hard to know. I feel, and the fact that he's getting (and missing) chances backs this up, that he's Ireland's best chance of a goal in most of our games. Ideally, I'd like to see him be more clinical as this is the major let down in his game at the moment.

I think the reason he plays so well for Spurs is because he has the pressure of the bench behind him with Defoe and Bent there ready to come in. We need a manager bold enough to say "Look you aren't playing well, you haven't performed to the levels we want, we're gonna have to try something different" and stick the likes of Long, Stokes, Keogh on ahead of him, then see his reaction. I honestly believe we'd see a different player. Will it happen though? I can't see it, so perhaps he should take his take his 3 goals v San Marino in this campaign and realise to himself that it's not good enough.
15/10/2007, 5:56 PM
eirebhoy

I actually think the pressure needs to be off Keane. He's probably his own worst enemy. Put him in a position where we're not relying on his goals. Out wide in a 4-3-3 or something. I've seen him dominate games for Spurs out wide or behind the strikers. With the players we have I don't know why we're not playing a 4-3-3.
15/10/2007, 7:15 PM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Actually the indo said that given was telling kelly to push on for the corner in the last min and staunton told kelly to stay back. Which, if true, is a disgrace. Happy with a point that knocks us out of the euros for definite but keeps our 'magnificent' home record intact

And getting three points would have made much difference?? :confused:

This group was lost after losing to Cyprus last year. It's been a case of pising against the wind since.
15/10/2007, 10:03 PM
highlight100

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGeady10

Strange McGeady played left midfield for Celtic last season against the eventual European Champions twice as Celtic kept two clean sheets and his fullback wasn't destroyed... Also played against the European Champions last week and won and his fullback wasn't destroyed... hmmmm....

I hope he proves me wrong,but he is an over rated player playing in a mickey mouse league. Fair enough he done well enough when he came on,but would he of done well if he was on for the whole match?
So far overall he has not played very well for Ireland and he needs to prove the doubters wrong (like me).

Keogh did not have a brilliant game but i think he did well considering

A- He plays in the championship
B- He is a novice at this level
16/10/2007, 12:09 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I actually think the pressure needs to be off Keane. He's probably his own worst enemy. Put him in a position where we're not relying on his goals. Out wide in a 4-3-3 or something. I've seen him dominate games for Spurs out wide or behind the strikers. With the players we have I don't know why we're not playing a 4-3-3.

Especially as our best (only?) winger is crocked!

Just like in Stuttgart, I thought the distance between Keane, Doyle and our midfield was vast at times and it's hard for them to function in those circumstances. If we're to criticise Keane why not also criticise Doyle? He was chasing shadows and running into blind alleys all night but mainly because of the above, I'd contend. At least Riobbie had some chances.

Robbie's miss when through with Lehman was a shocker. He's always a poor finisher when he's got time IMHO, he's far better when he's instinctive.

I have seen no replays but was his miss in the first half bad? From my seat I though Lehmann was always clear favourite to win out. It'd have been a great goal.
16/10/2007, 12:40 PM
Wolfie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Robbie's miss when through with Lehman was a shocker. He's always a poor finisher when he's got time IMHO, he's far better when he's instinctive.

That gilt edged chance was THE moment to nick the win. Once Keane has too much time to think he tends to miss. Keane's goal against Israel at home is a good example - very little time to think and relied very much on split second instinct.

We're still sorely lacking a predatory and consistent striker particularly in a competitive game.

Why does Keane insist on running to the corner flag when we've a corner?

Its shame Hunt was out - he could have had a big impact on Saturday.
16/10/2007, 12:53 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Why does Keane insist on running to the corner flag when we've a corner?

That was clearly tactical. With Dunne told to stay back for corners there's really no point in sending the ball in.
16/10/2007, 1:11 PM
Wolfie

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

That was clearly tactical. With Dunne told to stay back for corners there's really no point in sending the ball in.

I'd prefer to see the strikers in the box for corners regardless of whether the ball is sent in directly or not.
16/10/2007, 1:48 PM
lionelhutz

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

Point taken and that's what was written, my misunderstanding.

If it�s true then maybe there is a point but not quite in the disgrace level.

Quite possibly it is not true, we had amazing accounts here and in the media of Kerr ordering an advancing Roy Keane backwards in the away game against Israel when the truth was that Kerr was warning Kilbane that he was about to be closed down and to get rid of the effin ball.
When there is an agenda, media use all sorts of sh'ite to back up a point.

The same feckers would have been heavily criticizing McCarthy for taking off Harte in that game against Switzerland.

The simple facts are enough to judge Stan as a manager. He did better in this game than earlier games. There are still 2 games for him to prove himself.

I agree that the media do put a spin on things to argue their point.

But I also believe Staunton was happy to take a point when there was still a chance - not a great chance, but still a chance - of qualifying if we won.

And i don't think it was that much of an outside chance, with germany well capable of beating the Czechs, Slovakia would be up for it against their neighbours and Cyprus have an excellent home record

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