Shannon Airport Discussion

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

As much as anyone else deserves one. I can't counter the stats you haven't presented for Cork being home to "more international businesses" but I could perhaps counter that Shannon has as large or even a larger hinterland.

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Shannon does not have a larger hinterland in terms of population as Cork Airport does. Nearly 500,000 in Cork County alone not including most of Kerry, large parts of Tipperary and Waterford where Cork Airport is more easily accessible than Shannon. All of Clare, Limerick, North Tipp would only account for a pop of around 350,000 add in Galway and it gets to 575,000 still less than Cork Airports hinterland.

In terms of companies unfortunately Limerick/Shannon region has one major multi national dominating employment and that is Dell. Cork fortunately has a broader spread with more companies therefore more business travel.

So in terms of air transport in and out of the South of the country Cork ticks more boxes for airlines wanting to do business, it also has not put all of its eggs in one basket (eg Ryan air sweet heart deals ****ing off the competition).

Also Shannon has been seen by other regions as having had its own way for far too long in terms of unfair advantages over other regions eg the Shannon Free Duty zone and the Shannon stop over so the plight of Shannon Airport is never going to get that much sympathy from other regions.

Maybe Cork is next, I don't know but it has survived far worse.

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Maybe you'd like to outline the factors keeping them in Cork that don't exist in Shannon? Aside from ease of access for Corkonians.
...for now Pete. I won't say I told you so when Corks turn comes ...and it's coming.

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Population, Tourism, Business Travel, etc. There is a big difference between the two regions on these terms. Them is just the facts.
As for Cork is next ..... we'll just wait and see.

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Originally Posted by rebs23

Population, Tourism, Business Travel, etc. There is a big difference between the two regions on these terms. Them is just the facts.
As for Cork is next ..... we'll just wait and see.

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Rebs -while I accept neither your sums nor "facts" -my question, in so far as it was one, was somewhat rhetorical as I don't see this as a Cork VERSUS Shannon issue. I'm merely saying they will walk out on Cork for the same reasons they've dumped on Shannon. I don't believe they should be doing either.

Since I last posted here a close relative of mine, a highly skilled craftsman -not someone in a "pleb job" on a Dell production line or similar (no disrespect intended) has told me they've basically been put on protective notice as two of his employers major contracts in the tourism sector have been cancelled (one was actually under way!!) due to the Heathrow flights being taken from Shannon. I report this at all just by way of example that this is REAL up here. It's happening ...it's not scaremongering or hysterics.

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Rebs -while I accept neither your sums nor "facts" -my question, in so far as it was one, was somewhat rhetorical as I don't see this as a Cork VERSUS Shannon issue. I'm merely saying they will walk out on Cork for the same reasons they've dumped on Shannon. I don't believe they should be doing either.

Since I last posted here a close relative of mine, a highly skilled craftsman -not someone in a "pleb job" on a Dell production line or similar (no disrespect intended) has told me they've basically been put on protective notice as two of his employers major contracts in the tourism sector have been cancelled (one was actually under way!!) due to the Heathrow flights being taken from Shannon. I report this at all just by way of example that this is REAL up here. It's happening ...it's not scaremongering or hysterics.

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But yet the ACTUAL figures I posted a few pages back show that the Aer Lingus flights don't bring in that many tourists (approx 20 on each flight).

Is it possible this is an easy scapegoat when laying off people rather than the truth, which is probably more to do with Ireland's uncompetiveness in the tourist sector in the face of rising prices and a very strong currency?

I can throw anecdotes back about lots of Americans I know not coming back to Ireland because its horrendously expensive for them these days.

You have basically ignored all the facts posted previously about Cork being a Aer Lingus hub which reduces their costs per seat and posted yet another anecdote in response.

The bottom line is that Aer Lingus are adding destinations out of Cork yet you are still spinning groundless stories about them being next!

All this debate about the economy of Shannon is really a separate topic.

Aer Lingus is a private company so has a duty to act in its shareholders best interests. They are no longer a semi-state company. Some local people may not like this but a majority of people voted for FF in the recent General Election so clearly it was not an important enough issue for them to change their votes.

As posted above the facts just don't back up the importance of a Heathrow link as clearly not enough passengers dependent on it. London is served by numerous other links & Gatwick has a lot of connections. I also see Ryanair is starting flights to Dublin which offers other options, you also have the possibility of CityJet from Paris offering even more options than Dublin.

If someone can't a flight via Gatwick, Dublin or Paris where exactly are they flying from? :confused:

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

But yet the ACTUAL figures I posted a few pages back show that the Aer Lingus flights don't bring in that many tourists (approx 20 on each flight).

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...still comes to about 20,000 tourists a year traveling through Shannon.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Is it possible this is an easy scapegoat when laying off people rather than the truth, which is probably more to do with Ireland's uncompetiveness in the tourist sector in the face of rising prices and a very strong currency?

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Absolutely there's an element of that. BUT the instances I refererred to aren't multi-nationals in the manufacturing sector that are going to move on anyway because that's just what they do ...these are high end/ high spend, long established tourist locations who's confidence is seriously shaken because of the removal of the Heathrow slots. They may well be making a knee jerk reaction but this is what's happening.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I can throw anecdotes back about lots of Americans I know not coming back to Ireland because its horrendously expensive for them these days!

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...and I'd likely agree with them. As I said in an earlier post I think they product offered to any tourist anywhere in Ireland is often shoddy and overpriced. Deserves a thread of it's own.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

You have basically ignored all the facts posted previously about Cork being a Aer Lingus hub which reduces their costs per seat and posted yet another anecdote in response.

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Yet another anecdote?:confused: Two relevant and related points ORA. Just two. The first from an interview with the american golf tourist who'd think twice about coming here if he can't get in through Shannon and the second concerning a local working in a support industry who's job is under threat exactly because that kind of tourist is being put off.
Nor have I ignored the facts about Cork being an Aer Lingus hub. As I've said I don't see this as either or.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

The bottom line is that Aer Lingus are adding destinations out of Cork yet you are still spinning groundless stories about them being next!

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Groundless stories? Where are you getting this stuff? I ventured an opinion and never claimed it to be more. Following the logic that has led Aer Lingus to up stumps from Shannon -they will go from Cork and anywhere else thereafter when they find a more lucrative route to transfer the slots to. As some keep reminding me ...to do otherwise is to default their shareholders. :rolleyes:

I see Shannon is to lose its weekly winter link to Minsk............its just one blow after another.....

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Originally Posted by pete

All this debate about the economy of Shannon is really a separate topic.

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In fairness the two are interlinked in a way and I suspect a lot of companies may be using the Shannon Heathrow line as an excuse to take the heat off them in terms of upcoming job losses and in one paticular company using it as an excuse to get the unions off their back.
I work a lot in the Mid West (at least 1 or 2 days a week) and it is a region that is facing a lot of problems in terms of the mix of industry present (too reliant on It manufacturing type industry), ending of stopover, etc, etc.
Tough times ahead but very little to do with the Shannon Heathrow link.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I see Shannon is to lose its weekly winter link to Minsk............its just one blow after another.....

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Its a blow for the children of Belarus that come over to Ireland on that flight, you smart arse.

I still don't understand what destinations are gone with the Heathrow flights? Please someone list a few of them...?

:confused:

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Originally Posted by Ceirtlis

Its a blow for the children of Belarus that come over to Ireland on that flight, you smart arse.

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Won't somebody please think of the children......

Sure it makes their journey a bit more difficult but the rest of the country manages to host Chernobyl kids without a direct link to Belarus.

What a waste of cabinet time discussing the Shannon thing all day.

Merrion Rd QBC discussion tomorrow?

Bet O'Dea is showing his true gombeen-ism as I speak.

FF muppets.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Merrion Rd QBC discussion tomorrow?

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The problem with that bus lane is that there's no room for a bus to overtake cyclists so it ends up moving as the speed of the slowest bike it comes up behind.

I was talking to an international businessman and a group of wealthy American tourists who say that they are seriously considering moving their business to the other side of Donnybrook over the issue.

My local councilor is threatening to resign over this neglect of the south east of the city but I think that anyone who voted for the FF/PD/GP axis can have no cause for complaint. The voters need to realise that the only way this country will make progress is by petty infighting between the regions and only voting on the basis of local issues.

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Originally Posted by Student Mullet

I was talking to an international businessman and a group of wealthy American tourists who say that they are seriously considering moving their business to the other side of Donnybrook over the issue.

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They are clearly trying to make the QBC an excuse for outsourcing those jobs to Tallaght. Could they not use the Stillorgan QBC?

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Originally Posted by pete

As posted above the facts just don't back up the importance of a Heathrow link as clearly not enough passengers dependent on it. London is served by numerous other links & Gatwick has a lot of connections. I also see Ryanair is starting flights to Dublin which offers other options, you also have the possibility of CityJet from Paris offering even more options than Dublin.

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I don't understand the major fuss over it all. If passengers want to go to London from Shannon, they can go from Shannon to Stansted with Ryanair with no trouble. :confused: Heathrow's only a cab/tube fare away.

On the other hand, the government's stance is staggering. "We can't intervene" they cry. Well, they could when Ryanair threatened to take over the airline. :rolleyes:

In reality, none of them, nor the public at large care very much about things in this country outside Dublin. If Aer Lingus threatened to pull out of Dublin, the clamour for the government to intervene would mean, that they would have to act, commercial decision or not.

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Originally Posted by mypost

In reality, none of them, nor the public at large care very much about things in this country outside Dublin.

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And that is something we can all agree on. An unfortunate fact of life.

I have just started reading thsi and cant believe how some people on here are so smarmy about this. The most important factor here is the buisiness Factor for the whole west coast from North Kerry to Mayo and not just the Shannon region as the FF Spin Doctors are trying to isolate it too.

Anyone working for any factory in that region dependent on bringing in Clients/Customers from around the world will feel this in the long term whether it be new projects or their own jobs being withdrawn.

The whole transferring of the slots to Belfast had to include Government participation and Bertie obviously thought that his massive reputation as a great political leader would be enhanced by this but he seemed to think the people of the west and midwest would just rollover and die.

We are spending close on €1 billion euro this year on projects in the north and that money is coming out of all of our pockets.

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Originally Posted by gufct

Anyone working for any factory in that region dependent on bringing in Clients/Customers from around the world will feel this in the long term whether it be new projects or their own jobs being withdrawn.

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Please give just one example of route that customers/clients cannot travel to Shannon from?

:rolleyes:

heres one route pete heathrow :rolleyes: . There are over 50 Routes 2 of the top of my head are shangai and hong kong that will no longer be able to get connecting flights to Shannon directly without having to get an extra flight or train or bus connection and if you have clients that you are selling your product or service too what do you tell them get a bus to stansted,gatwick or god forbid Luton.

Aer Lingus have carte blanche to pull all their routes out of any airport including Belfast now and the government surely cant make any intervention.

If the clients from Hong Kong and Shanghai, etc, really want to go to Shannon, they can go via Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, etc, etc. They will have to get a connecting flight anyway, so if not Heathrow, there are other options. If they don't want to do that, then they aren't very committed to investing in the Western region, are they??

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Originally Posted by gufct

I have just started reading thsi and cant believe how some people on here are so smarmy about this. The most important factor here is the buisiness Factor for the whole west coast from North Kerry to Mayo and not just the Shannon region as the FF Spin Doctors are trying to isolate it too.

Anyone working for any factory in that region dependent on bringing in Clients/Customers from around the world will feel this in the long term whether it be new projects or their own jobs being withdrawn.

The whole transferring of the slots to Belfast had to include Government participation and Bertie obviously thought that his massive reputation as a great political leader would be enhanced by this but he seemed to think the people of the west and midwest would just rollover and die.

We are spending close on €1 billion euro this year on projects in the north and that money is coming out of all of our pockets.

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Doesn't even merit a response.

Most, if not all of what you have said has been disproved earlier in the thread.