The Kevin Nolan saga

So if you were:

Born in London
Left there at 6 months
Lived in South Armagh for 10 years from then until 11
Lived in London for 10 years from 11 until 21
Lived in Mayo & Dublin for 9 years until now
Spent every summer in Mayo

Now, is this cut & dried?? I am Irish & have never seen myself as English or British as both my parents are Irish & I have an Irish passport, I don't think it is relevant were you are born!!

Sean

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

Origin - Where you're from
Birth - Where you're born
Naturalization - Which ever country will have you!

Appears Mr. Nolan is going down the naturalization road so cause he don't qualify through origin or birth!

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Will ya stop barking like a little dog!

Kevin Nolan is English. He wants to play for England but is not good enough. He has decided to review his options and hey presto, begora begora, slap him with a green stick, he's Irish! Sorry, it just doesn't wash.

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Originally Posted by SeanieBoy

So if you were:

Born in London
Left there at 6 months
Lived in South Armagh for 10 years from then until 11
Lived in London for 10 years from 11 until 21
Lived in Mayo & Dublin for 9 years until now
Spent every summer in Mayo

Now, is this cut & dried?? I am Irish & have never seen myself as English or British as both my parents are Irish & I have an Irish passport, I don't think it is relevant were you are born!!

Sean

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Sean, if you spent your formative years (i.e childhood) in a place, then that is where I would say you are from. In your case that would mean your origin was South Armagh. Whether that makes you British or Irish, well that's a debate for a different day. :D

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

Will ya stop barking like a little dog!

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Are you directing that at me? If so stop being so childish and argue the point and don't resort to personal abuse.

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Kevin Nolan is English. He wants to play for England but is not good enough. He has decided to review his options and hey presto, begora begora, slap him with a green stick, he's Irish! Sorry, it just doesn't wash.

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Under the constitution of this country he is entitled to an Irish Passport. The rights of which were only voted on recently in the Citizenship referendum. Under the regulations of FIFA he may be entitled to play for ireland.

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

Sean, if you spent your formative years (i.e childhood) in a place, then that is where I would say you are from. In your case that would mean your origin was South Armagh. Whether that makes you British or Irish, well that's a debate for a different day. :D

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Contradicting yourself there, aren't you?

Bored with this now :(

Kevin Nolan is not Irish. He does not want to be Irish. He wants to further his career by playing for an international team, the only one available to him happens to be Ireland. There is a huge difference!

Never In Green shall Kevin be Seen!

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

Bored with this now :(

Kevin Nolan is not Irish. He does not want to be Irish. He wants to further his career by playing for an international team, the only one available to him happens to be Ireland. There is a huge difference!

Never In Green shall Kevin be Seen!

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And what do you think of Ray Houghton? He considers himself Scottish. His preference was to play for Scotland. He declared for Ireland and invariably played to the maximum of his ability and with no little pride.

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Originally Posted by colster

And what do you think of Ray Houghton? He considers himself Scottish. His preference was to play for Scotland. He declared for Ireland and invariably played to the maximum of his ability and with no little pride.

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Yeah, it was during an argument regarding Ray a couple of weeks ago that I came up with my sig. Ray showed his true colours when he insulted an entire nation by prancing around a live television studio dressed as a leprechaun to hi-diddle-hi music! That's what happens when you allow people, who are not Irish, to become Irish! They just don't understand. Ray is Scottish, always was, always will be, never did he wish to be Irish, it just suited his career to play for Ireland more so than it would have to play for Scotland. Is that right? Like I have said, choice needs to be removed from international football.

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

Yeah, it was during an argument regarding Ray a couple of weeks ago that I came up with my sig. Ray showed his true colours when he insulted an entire nation by prancing around a live television studio dressed as a leprechaun to hi-diddle-hi music! That's what happens when you allow people, who are not Irish, to become Irish! They just don't understand. Ray is Scottish, always was, always will be, never did he wish to be Irish, it just suited his career to play for Ireland more so than it would have to play for Scotland. Is that right? Like I have said, choice needs to be removed from international football.

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We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I can't see how someone born in Ireland to say Russian parents is more entitled to play for Ireland that a person who is born in England (or wherever) to Irish parents. If you had your way, that's exactly what would happen.

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Originally Posted by colster

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

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For the first time on this tread, I am fully in agreement with you, cause it seems to me that if some lad can play a bit of ball and even once visited Ireland, you would give him a green jersey!

Agreeing to disagree, and, rest!

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

For the first time on this tread, I am fully in agreement with you, cause it seems to me that if some lad can play a bit of ball and even once visited Ireland, you would give him a green jersey!

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How do you make that out? If he's of Irish descent (2nd/3rd generation) then as far as the constitution of this country is concerned he's elligible to hold an irish passport regardless of whether he's visited the country or not.

You have a weird view of nationality that would only allow people born in Ireland. It wouldn't allow children born outside to irish born parents and ancestory yet would allow a person born in ireland to foreign parents with no connection whatsoever to ireland.
IMO they are both the same. They are both entitled to call themselves irish.

I have had this for most of my life, I can't understand how these high & mighty people who where born in Ireland & never even ventured away from Ireland can say that a person who was born in another country isn't Irish. Many Irish people had no choice but to leave Ireland in the 50's/60's/70's & 80's just to be able to feed their families...

I am happy with my nationality & would never consider playing for another country, certainly not England or Northern Ireland, but it is very narrow minded to think that you have to be born in Ireland to play for Ireland, Paul McGrath was born in England, what nationality is he??

I understand the problem that certain people could have with Morrison & Nolan, as they would prefer to play for England (well Morrison would probably prefer to stick with Ireland even if he got the chance to play for England), but how do you differentiate between who we think is Irish or not??

Born in Ireland??
Born in Ireland & was brought up in England - Finnan
Born in England & Live in Ireland for 20+ years?? Live in Ireland for 10+ years?? Live in Ireland for 5+ years??
Born in England & moved back to Ireland - McGrath
Born in England & brought up in England, but want's to play for Ireland & has supported Ireland all their life, e.g Breen, Kilbane, McCarthy....
Born in England & supported England & wants to play for England - Morrison, Nolan, Aldridge (not sure)

Is it the last type of Ireland player that you dislike??

Sean

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

For the first time on this tread, I am fully in agreement with you, cause it seems to me that if some lad can play a bit of ball and even once visited Ireland, you would give him a green jersey!

Agreeing to disagree, and, rest!

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

Ray showed his true colours when he insulted an entire nation by prancing around a live television studio dressed as a leprechaun to hi-diddle-hi music!

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You're talking about that time he was on Fantasy Football, right? If memory serves he also dressed up as an Irish dancer, an IRA man and a potato :D. Interesting that you were most offended by the leprechaun outfit (I hope you've never looked at the crowd during an Ireland game...). I don't think the sketch was performed live in a television studio either, by the way.

It could be seen as a swipe at people who think they are more Irish than the likes of Houghton...

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I am Irish!
I was born in Ireland!
I was reared in Ireland!
That makes me Irish!
...................................
What's your story?

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...that sort of thing. As a supposedly fake-Irishman, Houghton then has to "prove" that he really is Irish.

Can we set up a new rule as well? The minute a thread about a player who might not have been born in Ireland turns into a discussion on nationality, passports, birthrights, immigration/emigration, constitutions, etc, it should be locked. IT'S BEEN DONE!:o

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Originally Posted by colster

And what do you think of Ray Houghton? He considers himself Scottish. His preference was to play for Scotland. He declared for Ireland and invariably played to the maximum of his ability and with no little pride.

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I'm not entirely sure that is accurate. Evidently Houghton is a fairly serious Catholic so he had issues playing for Scotland. I got them from an article in the Times (London) from the early nineties so your mileage may vary.

Nolan will not declare for Ireland and nor should he. He's English and he wants to play for England. Good for him now let's move on.

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

Nolan will not declare for Ireland and nor should he. He's English and he wants to play for England. Good for him now let's move on.

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Surely the most sensible thing ever said by a Dublin City fan! ;)

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

Surely the most sensible thing ever said by a Dublin City fan! ;)

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Heh, I'm actually a Shel's fan I just prefer the jersey. Went to school just down the road from Tolka Park.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

I liked McAteer. Have quite a bit of contempt for the likes of Kelly and Carr too. But if you expect me to apologise for harbouring resentment towards players who declare for this country purely 100% to advance their career we're gonna fall out my friend. As far as I'm concerned Ireland means no more to Clinton Morrisson than Crystal Palace does (or indeed Birmingham City did). I think Morrison is over-rated by Irish fans anyway. He does a job for us and, as I've said in threads before, now that we have him I'm not suggesting that we cull him, but for me he's a mediocre footballer who's found his level in England's second tier and has delusions of grandeur above his station. And his application is all well and good now that he's tied to us but I've not forgotten his conveniant injury when first he was called up. I'm not suggesting that we pack him back from where we came at all but at the same time I think people should acknowledge that Clinton Morrison is a citizen of convenience. That's all. :D



I agree. In fact I'd love to play international football. However it looks unlikely that I'll ever reach that level with my country. However I haven't been desperately looking for American Samoan citizenship to bring that game to life. Nor would I. The whole idea of international football is about nations putting their best team together. Now maybe I'm some old before my time fogey who harks back to the days when international teams were full of players who actually considered themselves to be from the country they're representing but I can't help that. :) I take your point about the Houghton and Morris types from the golden era. The likes of Mick McCarthy and Phil Babb deserve better though, they were always aware of and took pride in their Irish roots. And of course I was a young, naive child back when all that occured and paid precious little attention to things like place of birth! :o

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Seems to me you consider the nationality a person thinks he is is more important than the persons actual nationality. Just because a person
doesn't understand his own nationality should not exclude him from representing his country.
I think basically you are excluding people because they are ignorant, that
is not necessarilly their fault.

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Originally Posted by SeanieBoy

Born in England & supported England & wants to play for England - Morrison, Nolan, Aldridge (not sure)

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I think you're off the mark regarding Aldo !!

I'd play Nolan for one game, that way at least he wouldnt be able to play for anyone else. If his attitude was good, then maybe consider playing him for more games. At least we'll snuff out the chances of him ever playing against us.

By all accounts Kerian Richardson wanted to play for us, but we never expressed an interest in him so he opted for England (like Keown ages ago), the same might happen with Steven Ireland

if we don't express an interest in Stephen Ireland, we may as well give up soccer as a national sport!!!!

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Seems to me you consider the nationality a person thinks he is is more important than the persons actual nationality. Just because a person doesn't understand his own nationality should not exclude him from representing his country.

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Excellent idea, let's pick a clear nationality rule and force it on players. If it's on birth then wasn't Michael Owen born just over the border in Wales? So I don't care what he says he's welsh. Or we can go on their bloodline, in which case we'll have Rooney.