Stephen Carr

it was finnan's man. straight from the training ground. liverpool had practiced that exact free kick in training and it was finnan's responsibility to pick up the run. benitez as much as admitted so in the interview after the game. and as the goal went in, their was a camera than panned over to benitez and he could be clearly seen to mouth the name of steve finnan in a very annoyed manner. defend him all you like, he was at fault for the goal and benitez knows it(oh, and it's his opinion that counts not some random internet poster).
as for benitez saying how great he is blah blah, how come he has tried to bring two new right backs to liverpool in his two years to try and get rid of him? sounds like a vote of confidence.
by the way, i have nothing personal against finnan, i just dont buy into the hype around him.

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

as for benitez saying how great he is blah blah, how come he has tried to bring two new right backs to liverpool in his two years to try and get rid of him? sounds like a vote of confidence.
by the way, i have nothing personal against finnan, i just dont buy into the hype around him.

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Well Josemi was a flop, Carragher got moved to centre half and the new guy hasn't had a look in yet. What about bringing in Sissoko, does that mean Benitez wants to get rid of Gerrard? All clubs bring in players to strengthen their squads.

Funny, maybe it's cause I'm in the UK, but I'm not aware of any hype around Finnan. He's hardly ever mentioned over here & of my mates who follow the Irish team they rarely refer to Finnan when they talk about any genuine quality we have in the Irish side. It's always Given, Robbie & Duff.

finnan had a great season when fulham first played in th eprem. very much like denis irwin: solid at th eback but also very positive going forward. could beat a man and brought the ball out of defense quite often. also had a good world cup for ireland. but nowadays he looks merely solid. maybe its the way liverpool play but he seems to hoof a lot of balls from the back. rarely see him taking anybody on these days and doesn't look confident coming forward.

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

it was finnan's man. straight from the training ground. liverpool had practiced that exact free kick in training and it was finnan's responsibility to pick up the run. benitez as much as admitted so in the interview after the game. and as the goal went in, their was a camera than panned over to benitez and he could be clearly seen to mouth the name of steve finnan in a very annoyed manner. defend him all you like, he was at fault for the goal and benitez knows it(oh, and it's his opinion that counts not some random internet poster).

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Show me what Benitez says and you might get some credit. Until then I've watched the goal about 30 times and from what I see Finnan is not at fault.

After reading your post and watching the goal again you've got to be joking if you haven't got some kind of bias against Finnan? Maybe you're trying to prove this so called hype wrong?

Watch the video that I posted, please. Here it is again:
http://s5.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3G...G0W5IYWFQF9YG6

In fact, look at this pic and then watch the clip a few times: :)
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4504/finnan9vf.jpg

You can't make much better than that on the training ground. The player that Hyypia was marking didn't try to get the ball, he ran away from the goal to make space for the centre half to run in. The player that scored was probably the biggest player on the pitch which is why Benitez is so annoyed that he wasn't being marked by someone earlier. There's a Liverpool player about to chase him but decides to stop. Finnan is the only player that chases him.

Here's something you might enjoy R2U: :)

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To the tune of Irish Rover:

We needed a right back to finish our plan
So we splashed out some money for Stevie Finnan,
We had Houghton and Whelan in great sides before,
Now the kop has a great irish hero once more.

And it's Stevie Finnan *insert claps* Stevie Finnan's a red,
He came out of Ireland and leaves wingers for dead.

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"he could be clearly seen to mouth the name of steve finnan in a very annoyed manner" :D

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

by the way, i have nothing personal against finnan, i just dont buy into the hype around him.

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What hype are you talking about? I think he's clearly our best full-back, not the best full-back ever or a God of football. In terms of hype, he's hardly David Beckham, is he?

and you obviously have not been listening to benitez rabbiting on and on for the past 2 season. i have just 2 words for you, "zonal" and "marking". that is why it was finnan's man! argue all you like, benitez knows who was at fault. even the lads in the studio after the game were talking about it being finnan's fault, and it was john toshack that picked up on benitez mouthing the name of finnan as the goal went in, when they showed the footage it was clear as day! and on that note the defense rests(or sleeps as in teh case of finnan ;-) ).

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Originally Posted by jimbob117

Agreed. Had this discussion in work today. I said that he was one of the top right backs in the world, making him world class. I was laughed at... and then I asked to name 5 right backs that were better..Noone in the prem was mentioned(bearing in mind Gallas in a Centre back essentially) and all I got were Cicinho, Cafu , Thuram 5 years ago.. and maybe Salgado... but I reckon he is a better RB than Thuram NOW so obviously that doesnt count... anyone agree with me??

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Cicinho? As in that scut who attempted to mark Reyes against Arsenal the other night? That diving, mouthy little plank spent the entire game making heroic forays into the Arsenal box only to achieve absolutely nothing except a gaping hole in Real's defence. When he wasn't doing this, he was getting himself booked for stupid challenges. In his spare time, he was diving all over the place. I think I might just go for Finnan over that.

Although I wouldn't consider Finnan to be truly world class, you're right Jimbob, there aren't that many out there that stand out as being streets ahead. Except Cafu, maybe.

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

and you obviously have not been listening to benitez rabbiting on and on for the past 2 season. i have just 2 words for you, "zonal" and "marking". that is why it was finnan's man! argue all you like, benitez knows who was at fault. even the lads in the studio after the game were talking about it being finnan's fault, and it was john toshack that picked up on benitez mouthing the name of finnan as the goal went in, when they showed the footage it was clear as day! and on that note the defense rests(or sleeps as in teh case of finnan ;-) ).

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Even if it was his fault, and I'm not sure it was, it was only one mistake. Compare that to Ian Harte, John O'Shea, Steve Carr, Gary Breen etc etc. He's our best full-back, I reckon. Who do you suggest?

I dont think LIverpool have a man makring system they have a zonal marking system so the Benfica player did not lose his man as there was no man to lose. It came into Hyppia zone as far as I can see and Finnan did his best also to stop the goal. I would blame Hyppipa for it. However as Zenden says LIverpool worked on this so they would no exactly who did not do their job as they had seen Benfica operate this free kick before and had practised for it.

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Originally Posted by Rover 2 U

and you obviously have not been listening to benitez rabbiting on and on for the past 2 season. i have just 2 words for you, "zonal" and "marking". that is why it was finnan's man! argue all you like, benitez knows who was at fault. even the lads in the studio after the game were talking about it being finnan's fault, and it was john toshack that picked up on benitez mouthing the name of finnan as the goal went in, when they showed the footage it was clear as day! and on that note the defense rests(or sleeps as in teh case of finnan ;-) ).

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shock news ! defender loses his man ! ffs he made a mistake get over it .. he has shown he is a quality defender and imo either him or gary neville are the best right backs in the prem .. Why do we always have to put down our own players ?

HANSEN: FINNAN'S BEST RIGHT BACK IN COUNTRY
Paul Eaton 23 February 2006

Alan Hansen has today hailed the performances of Steve Finnan and declared him 'the best right back in the Premiership'.
Finnan has enjoyed another outstanding season and has made the right back position his own under Rafael Benitez.

Hansen has been impressed with Finnan's improvement over recent months and believes his consistently excellent displays deserve more recognition than they're given.

"Steve has shown a massive improvement over the last eighteen months or so. I can't think of a better right back in the Premiership at the moment," the former Liverpool defender told LFC Magazine.

"The way he's been playing all season has been outstanding but he's a relatively unsung hero.

"You only have to look at his performances on a weekly basis to see how good he is now. I always thought Finnan was good on the ball but he's dramatically improved defensively since he's been at Liverpool.

"That defensive improvement also brings the best out of him when he's on the ball because of the confidence factor.

"If you go back to the start of last season when Carragher was switched to centre half, it looked like right back could be a problem position. Not any more it doesn't.

"Finnan has got to take all the plaudits for that because sometimes, when people aren't sure about you, it can transmit to a player and they sink. The opposite has happened to Finnan. He's grown in confidence and is now playing better and better and better."

Taken from www.liverpoolfc.tv
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Hard not to agree with the above, and on current form Stevie has to be one of the first names down on Steve Staunton's teamsheet. I could never understand why Brian Kerr didn't seem to utilise him better, especially considering his consistency for Liverpool. Even with Carr back (and he will probably never again be the player he was at Spurs), Finnan has to be the obvious choice for Right Back. He gives us a decent option at Right Midfield aswell where he did play under Kerr.

i think we should keep Finnan at RB where he is playing well for his club. Maybe Carr should be given a chance at RMF, if we can't find a decent alternative? He might be a happier player when his defensive responsibilities are reduced.

Stevie Finnan is way better than Carr!! the only way i'd play him is if you move finnan to the right wing and carr to right back! finnan could also do a good job a left-full

I always thought that Finnan was under rated in Japan/Korea, and one of the most consistent players.

If Carr comes back then he would want to put a smile on his face, if i played once for Ireland I would smile all day. He does not appreciate the position he is in, to represent his country is an honour not a burden.

The only thing I can offer in Carr's defence is that he clearly hated the Kerr way of doing things, probably more than anyone. There was talk of a fall out with Kerr when Carr couldn't see his family on one Dublin visit.

I agree with feo123 that Finnan is way better than Carr. But that's exactly why I'd consider trying Carr RHM with Finnan at full back, as Irish Praha says. If you have a genuine international quality full-back I think you should play him there. Even long before Carr retired I'd like to have seen him at RHM. He is more dynamic going forward than Finnan. His defensive instincts would allow Finnan to overlap anyway, but when it comes to the crunch Finnan is a better defender & makes fewer careless errors at the back than Carr so he's simply got to be the full-back.

Carr being back available for selection is good, for now. Kevin Foley should be allowed to develop in the U21s. Stephen Kelly isn't getting a regular start & shouldn't be considered our reserve full back until he is. Joey O'Brien, on current form, is our best back-up option to Finnan at the moment - but I'd prefer O'Brien had a few caps under his belt before choosing him ahead of a fully fit Carr in a big competitive game.

In slight contradiction to my view that we have to play our few real quality players in their natural positions, I'm a little torn as to whether to let Finnan fill the left-back slot as it's just such a problem position.

Picking Harte at left back means balance & dead ball ability. But we all know what the entry in the debit column is. Likewise O'Shea. Picking Finnan at LB is a solid option but it weakens the RB position & affects the team's balance. I honestly think Kilbane at LB is an option with Duff on the left-wing.


With Carr back in the fold I see our RHM options as Joey O'Brien, Steve Reid, Andy Reid, Liam Lawrence, Carr, McGeady (anyone left out?).

I see our Right Full Back options as Finnan, O'Brien, Carr & Kelly.

Overall not bad - there's definitely enough there to make a decent team - and with a bit of luck some of the rookies can get a good run at club level to make them more serious candidates. Stephen Kelly for example is very much "work in progress" & I'm very confident Kevin Foley could be a big player in a few years.

One of my biggest disappointments this year has been Clive Clarke's failure to make any impact at West Ham.

From this weekend's Sunday Times (Irish edition):

Robson’s last signing from his Newcastle United days, Stephen Carr, may be back in the Newcastle first team after lengthy injury trouble but his list of detractors on Tyneside has if anything grown. Chief among his baiters is the former Newcastle United striker Malcolm Macdonald, who has constantly been on the Dubliner’s back through his column in the city’s Evening Chronicle while blowing his own deafening trumpet at the same time.

‘Carr bothers me because he’s not great as a defender for a man with plenty of experience playing for Spurs and the Republic of Ireland,’ Macdonald writes. ‘When the ball is on the opposite flank he gets sucked in and takes up bad positions. In my day, Alan Kennedy used to suffer in exactly the same way. I remember when I was at Arsenal and we were playing Newcastle I told Alan Ball, who could drop a pass on a sixpence, that if we got a free-kick on our left to just whip the ball over above Kennedy’s head and I’d score. He did and I did with a header.’

Commenting on how Carr was skinned by Aaron Lennon for Spurs’ goal against Newcastle on April 2, Macdonald writes: ‘Carr, for all his experience, has never learnt how to jockey a winger in possession.’

The Chronicle’s veteran football writer Alan Oliver is also championing the cause of the young Englishman Peter Ramage as right-back ahead of Carr, saying: ‘Carr has not spoken to the media since he came from Spurs, allegedly because an Irish journalist gave him three marks out of 10 after a Republic international.’

Carr, who tends to go into his shell when criticised, would do well to take a few lessons from his Newcastle teammate Shay Given, the darling of the Newcastle press corps. Given has one year left to run on his contract at Newcastle but talks on a new one have stalled because the club finds itself in limbo after the sacking of Graeme Souness.

Given has been a vociferous advocate of Martin O’Neill taking over at Newcastle but, if the Ulsterman gets the England job instead, Given may finally decide his time on Tyneside is up after nearly 10 years.

heh heh

Malcolm doesn't seem to miss a chance to blow his own trumpet.
Why is it that all the past and present 3 club managers at Newcastle select Carr as first choice or can't wait to play Carr as soon as he recovers from injury? Yet more cheap shots being thrown at Carr's expense. P!ss poor journalism.

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Originally Posted by jimbob117

Agreed. Had this discussion in work today. I said that he [FINNAN] was one of the top right backs in the world, making him world class. I was laughed at... and then I asked to name 5 right backs that were better..Noone in the prem was mentioned(bearing in mind Gallas in a Centre back essentially) and all I got were Cicinho, Cafu , Thuram 5 years ago.. and maybe Salgado... but I reckon he is a better RB than Thuram NOW so obviously that doesnt count... anyone agree with me??

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You're not alone jimbob117. Check this out:

There was an article in today's Guardian saying a top Spanish journalist suggested that in the absence of star full backs in the world game, Arsenal's Eboue was possibly already the world's best right-back.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/champ...760663,00.html

Extract:

...think about it. Eboué's rivals are certainly thin on the ground. Gary Neville, of course, suggests himself. Cafu, Willy Sagnol and Michel Salgado are past their best. Cicinho is too raw. Gianluca Zambrotta, currently filling the position for Italy, is a natural left-back. So maybe it was not such an extraordinary statement.

Very similar to jimbob's remarks.

Anyway, this is sad, but I e-mailed the journalist, Richard Williams, and asked him for his views on Finnan. I suggested he was better than Neville, suffers in terms of recognition because he plays for a small country & I suggested some features to his game that I admire. Anyway, he just e-mailed back saying he agreed entirely, adding that he is diligent and steady but there is far more to him than that!