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Doesn't have the Euro experience the other key players have, from the EL run.
It's a different ball game scoring at that level in crunch Euro games, whatever about ability but even the self confidence for it. Traditionally LOI strikers, even top top strikers, wouldn't be big scorers in Europe relatively (for example our top Euro scorer is Dan Murray)!
Seani surpassed Dan with his hattrick against Levadia.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
Totally agree but it is pretty indicative of the contempt that the FAI have, for even its premier club.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
Nothing that Dundalk could do to block it apparently but the least ANY club should expect is the courtesy of a “heads up” call.
The really is a complete disconnect between the League and the FAI.
Do we actually know for sure the FAI didn't contact Dundalk first?
The first Dundalk heard about Kenny taking the u21 job was a call in Saturday when the deal had been done.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
There were similar question marks over McMillan and him needing a number of chances to score, he wasnt as clinical as would be considered necessary for Europe where chances are limited. There was a general consensus, especially from Pats fans that he wasnt up to it. 2016 he certainly showed a cutting edge with the brace against BATE and how he was missed not starting v Alkmaar in Tallaght for example. Kilduff scored a couple of important goals but missed a sitter in Netanya that could have been crucial for getting to the last 32 if other results were going our way and I think he should have done better with the chance that hit the bar at Rosenborg. McMillan improved his goal to chance ratio and was arguably starting at a lower base level than Hoban will 2019. Hoban has also played in Europe in 2015 scoring away to Hadjuk. I think he is good enough especially if he is on a goal scoring streak but if his goalscoring form is patchy what he offers in terms of his hold-up and relieving pressure on defence or bringing midfield in to play is essential. If we are relying on Kelly who has had limited game time, but has some Euro experience, then its very much an unknown quantity.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
It is highly unlikely that Dundalk FC were appraoched by the FAI before Kenny simply on the basis that Kenny was turning down the u21 job and Dundalk seemed to be in the dark. It is possible that the CEO knew about the approach and didnt inform the board or owners but that would be highly irregular and unlikely. There is also the whole Giles being asked for advice though Kenny says he knows nothing about that. Going on form I doubt the FAI would have bothered going through the proper procedure for any approach especially when Delaney was scrambling to quell the growing questions on his position and performance. Imo Delaney tailored things for SK to either not want to say no or not able to say no if he wanted the Ireland job at any point in the future. One thing Delaney has down to a fine art its self preservation and compensation to Dundalk or SK knocking back a job offer wasnt going to stop his masterplan to deflect attention away from dissatisfaction in him in the media. If he put as much effort in to doing thing properly rather than hiding incompetance and cronyism we would have a football association that would outperform both the Croats and Belgians!!
That's what everyones saying alright but do we know it's true?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Well in fairness the club aren’t exactly going to come out and say these things. At the minute they’re trying to find a way to give Vinny Perth the job so unfortunately they have to keep the FAI onside so complaining about the process that took Kenny from Dundalk won’t help.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop
Like a lot of things in this league, the actual story never comes out officially, but if everyone, including well briefed journalists, is saying this then maybe you just have to accept it.
all the rumours /sources appear to indicate that there was no prior contact with Dundalk and my comments were predicated on that basis. if anyone knows to the contrary feel free to contribute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
what's the general consensus on Perth? Happy enough with that or a bit underwhelmed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
It seems perverse that you have identified Patrick Hoban, the leagues highest scorer in over 40 years, as being an obvious weak link or lacking in experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
Hopefully he will further improve - domestically and in Europe - with the benefit of a little more experience
He looked a bit out of his depth in that debacle out in Larnaca, but the entire team did, to be honest. I'd imagine that defeat kept Kenny awake at night for a while after. I would like to think the staff made a plan for how to improve going forward, an in doing so Hoban will have learned some tips and hints. I agree with Ezekial though in that I sincerely hope he takes his LOI goalscoring ability to the next level.
Vinny Perth can’t go in as ‘the manager’ as he doesn’t have his pro licence, but I think they are looking at some sort of dispensation to have him involved and with someone who has the badge. The problem is the rule changed this year as you need to have the badges as opposed to ‘be doing them’, so depending on who they chose he could end up as the defacto manager with another guy as his ‘assistant’ or to continue as the assistant, either way I don’t think he will be leaving, and personally I think its important that he stays on. He has been assistant from the start of 2013, that’s a decent stint, plus he seems to have that right link with the players, and their respect.
I think the club needs minimum disruption and a smooth process post SK, so Perth would fill that, but at the same time I do think he needs someone solid in there with him too, that would appear to be what the club are looking for this week, who that is, I have no idea, word is they want to have the appointments in place for the mgt team by this weekend.
So it looks like Perth will stay on, but at what role, its not too clear yet.
dont forget also that perth also has managerial experience from his time with malahide and he was caretaker manager for us ten years ago when aaron callaghan resigned and performed well for the remaining few months of that season but rather disappointedly for us Alan Gough got the job ahead of him at start of 09 season. but its the badges thats the problem!Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
Thats a bizarre interpretation of my post. I didn't at all say he would be a weak link.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
I was highlighting his lack of experience in relation to the discussion around the players euro experience filling any potential gap in a managers experience at that level.
The striker position is a significantly more difficult one IN Europe than most others.
I have no doubt Hoban will continue to perform incredibly domestically. He's proven his quality. Whether he can replicate it, and his style suits as well, in Europe is still to be seen. And that sort of unknown makes progress in Europe harder to guess at, especially without Kenny.
Hoban is overrated imo. Have said it a few times over the season. In the key games this season (Top 4 in league, and Europe) 18 games ( 6 v City, 4 v Shams, 4 v Waterford, 4 Eur) - just 4 goals - one a gift from yer buddy Mark McNulty is all he could manage. I'd go so far as to say if ye want to progress in Europe as ye could ( and bearing in mind Dundalk could be seeded all the way to the Europa League Group stages ) then ye need a better striker than Hoban.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
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Originally Posted by micls
I am far from sure that there is much point in engaging in this with you, as I suspect that you may be trying to wind up another long-running saga of a nonsensical tangle again.
It is clear to both of us that you were highlighting your view that there are key players at Dundalk lacking European experience. If you are highlighting Hoban as being the "stand out one" in this respect, surely it is reasonable to interpret this as suggesting that this is a weakness, ergo Hoban being a weak link in the context of European experience
Naturally some will have doubts about Patrick Hoban's ability to replicate his goal-scoring prowess in Europe (much as many doubted his abilities 12 months ago), and clearly it is more difficult to score in Europe, but there is no other centre forward in Ireland that I would rather have in the number 9 shirt for Dundalk next season.
He is a remarkably driven player and has improved significantly since he last played with Dundalk in 2014 - and at 27 he is probably approaching his peak. I expect he will comfortably top the national goal scoring charts again next season and is a key player in the context of possible Euro progression
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Originally Posted by micls
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Originally Posted by micls
Amazing post. Even to go into the detail of researching goals v teams that finished 2nd to 4th. Therefore just because he scored only one v Cork, I meant ‘City’, how would you rate him compared to previous strikers who scored less but who won leagues previously in the two division era ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Overrated with close on 30 goals in a PD season, that’s a good one.
I've no skin in the Hoban debate but I'd rate him not dissimilar to Twigg for us. A top class LOI striker but short of the package when you step up a level to European football. McMillan, while maybe less talented that Hoban, showed his ability to step up. Maybe Hoban still has it in him, so we'll see next year (and I recognise Hoban did score goals in Split a few years back).
You really make every conversation difficult with the nitpicking at every word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
The point was that a new manager is a risky time, and the continuity argument for Perth could be influenced by Europe.
Others said that the players experience in Europe should stand up and possibly bridge the Kenny gap there.
My point was not all your key players, including Hoban who will be vital, have that experience. He may be very successful, but we didn't see enough of that in Europe to make that assumption. So it's risky.
I don't have any interest in getting into your debate about what was meant by experience or if that means I think he's a weak link or not. It's nonsense. The point was he's an unknown at the level we're talking about, Group stage qualification, in a key position to