Republic of Ireland V Gibraltar(A) 4th Sept & Georgia(H) 7th Sept 2015 - Euro 2016 Q

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

What media narrative?

---

That we need to play him, even thought he is a passenger, because he gets us important goals.

These are the goals that Robbie Keane scored for Ireland since signing for LA Galaxy:

Gibraltar (2) [1x pen]
Gibraltar (3) [1x pen]
Kazakhstan (1) [1x pen]
Sweden (1)
Faroe Islands (3)
Kazakhstan (1) [1x pen]
Estonia (2) [1x pen]

That's one goal of consequence, against Sweden. And it was two years ago, and now he has gone even more downhill.

Long has already been more meaningful than Robbie Keane in this campaign with his goal against Poland, which saved us a point and kept us in the group. All of Robbie's goals in this campaign have come against Gibraltar, who we would have beaten anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SkStu

I thought Christie, lovely goal aside, was very sloppy in possession especially in the first half but got better in the 2nd.

---

He does have a bit of a habit of over-dribbling into opponents/dead-ends and was caught out badly on one occasion especially, when the Irish defence was outnumbered by Gibraltarians racing forward after having stolen the ball from Christie. It could have proven costly if we'd been playing against a more clinical side with an ability to punish such slackness. Overall, I thought he did well though.

Big fan of what Brady brings too.

I had been thinking something looked slightly different or more striking when the team came out and realised it was the return of the traditional white shorts. Hope it stays that way; I'm not a fan of the all-green get-up. Good to see O'Neill back to his old touchline-hopping, tracksuit-wearing self as well!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brine3

That we need to play him, even thought he is a passenger, because he gets us important goals.

These are the goals that Robbie Keane scored for Ireland since signing for LA Galaxy:

Gibraltar (2) [1x pen]
Gibraltar (3) [1x pen]
Kazakhstan (1) [1x pen]
Sweden (1)
Faroe Islands (3)
Kazakhstan (1) [1x pen]
Estonia (2) [1x pen]

That's one goal of consequence, against Sweden. And it was two years ago, and now he has gone even more downhill.

Long has already been more meaningful than Robbie Keane in this campaign with his goal against Poland, which saved us a point and kept us in the group. All of Robbie's goals in this campaign have come against Gibraltar, who we would have beaten anyway.

---

That's still one goal more than Long has scored in his entire international career. And most of those goals have come in friendlies. And he had a bad miss before scoring last night, which unfortunately it typical of Long.

2 goals away to Estonia in a play-off and a last minute equaliser (earned by being fouled as he was about to score in open play, and immediately preceding Doyle's late winner) in Kazakhstan were of no consequence?


As they say now, there'll always be haters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brine3

That we need to play him, even thought he is a passenger, because he gets us important goals.

---

I'm not sure there is a single media narrative or orthodoxy. If anything, I find many in the Irish media don't pay Robbie the respect he deserves, despite his world-class record. I'd like to see Long given more opportunities myself (and I'd love even more if he took advantage of his opportunities), but Robbie's place in the starting line-up has frequently been the source of questions in the media for a few years now.

I'd describe last night as a professional performance, no more but no less either. I'd stil like at least on central midfielder to just jump out of his comfort zone and make an impact, though they were each tidy enough last night.

Clark makes himself noticed at set pieces and will sneak a goal soon. He also makes himself noticed at least once a game in his own box too though.

RTE saying Monday will be the defining game of O'Neill's tenure. I agree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I'd describe last night as a professional performance, no more but no less either.

---

Yep. I thought things just weren't quite coming off for Hoolahan at times. On another day, a couple of his passes would have been a foot to the left or right and Keane/Walters would have been through on goal. So it goes sometimes.

But 4-0, we hit the bar, had a goal ruled out, had a penalty call turned down and, ultimately, got three comfortable points against a Gibraltar team who weren't the complete shambles they were in Dublin. Happy with that. Move on.

Edit - wait - thought McGeady was awful when he came on. The scuffed shots were appalling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I'd describe last night as a professional performance, no more but no less either. I'd stil like at least on central midfielder to just jump out of his comfort zone and make an impact, though they were each tidy enough last night.

Clark makes himself noticed at set pieces and will sneak a goal soon. He also makes himself noticed at least once a game in his own box too though.

RTE saying Monday will be the defining game of O'Neill's tenure. I agree.

---

I think Clark is a good player and, you're right, he's a nuisance at set pieces which is great because our delivery from them is brilliant (thanks to Brady).

I hope the start against Gibraltar was a show of faith from O'Neill and now he's first choice to partner O'Shea. I do like Wilson and he hasn't done a pile wrong for us there but Clark is a better player and has a bright future there for us.

One thing I noticed about Clark last night is that he has gotten much physically stronger than he previously was. He needed to do that to become a regular at centre half, as opposed to left back. The size of Okore and Vlaar meant he probably needed to do that at Villa anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

That's still one goal more than Long has scored in his entire international career. And most of those goals have come in friendlies. And he had a bad miss before scoring last night, which unfortunately it typical of Long.

---

It's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

Robbie gets to start all the matches and plays 70-80 minutes, Long comes on for 10-20 minutes.

And then Long gets told he doesn't score as many goals.

It's starting to get tiring.

The fact is that Long has contributed more to this campaign than Robbie despite having much less minutes of play. Look at it this way: Robbie had 90 minutes to score against Poland and didn't. Long was given only seven minutes and he got us the equaliser which has kept us in this group.

Give Long 160 minutes against Gibraltar + plus penalty duty and I guarantee you he will get as many goals as Robbie did. And it will build his confidence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

2 goals away to Estonia in a play-off and a last minute equaliser (earned by being fouled as he was about to score in open play, and immediately preceding Doyle's late winner) in Kazakhstan were of no consequence?


As they say now, there'll always be haters.

---

It was a long time ago. Estonia was four years ago (and we were two up at that stage and Estonia were down to 10 and then 9 men). Kazakhstan three years ago. What has Robbie done lately?

Nobody should be in the team based on scoring a goal against Kazakhstan three years ago. If that's the bar we are setting, then Doyle should be starting every match.

Don't get me wrong, Robbie Keane has been a great player for Ireland, but we are flogging a dead horse at this stage. It's typical of Irish football really... we are constantly clinging to the glories of the past. Look at how we still think we can qualify for tournaments by "putting em under pressure" even though football has moved on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brine3

Give Long 160 minutes against Gibraltar + plus penalty duty and I guarantee you he will get as many goals as Robbie did. And it will build his confidence.

---

No he wouldn't. For starters, Long has never (well, bar one season) been the out and out goalscorer Keane is. He's only once managed more than ten league goals in a season, and that was in the second flight. Keane has done it 14 times. Long is a different forward, but for the minnows, you put in Keane and he delivers.

Long has had lots of sub appearances, granted, but when he starts, he misses at least one glaring chance for every one he scores.

His goal against Poland was arguably quite fluky too; weak shot and a big deflection. Who else has he scored against competitively? Of his 12 goals, at least seven were in friendlies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brine3

Look at how we still think we can qualify for tournaments by "putting em under pressure" even though football has moved on

---

I think this shows you either (a) haven't a clue what you're talking about, (b) are just trolling or (c) both.

Because I don't know where you could actually conclude that people think that.

The managers in charge of our team seem to think that way.

So you're saying we play the same style of football now as under Charlton?

Right so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

No he wouldn't. For starters, Long has never (well, bar one season) been the out and out goalscorer Keane is. He's only once managed more than ten league goals in a season, and that was in the second flight. Keane has done it 14 times. Long is a different forward, but for the minnows, you put in Keane and he delivers.

Long has had lots of sub appearances, granted, but when he starts, he misses at least one glaring chance for every one he scores.

---

Long only started once in this campaign.

Minutes played in each match:

LONG - KEANE
14 - 76
0 - 63
0 - 63
68 - 12
7 - 90
10 - 17
19 - 71

Total minutes/goals:

Keane 392 / 5 (Ratio of 1 goal per 78 minutes)
Long 118 / 2 (Ratio of 1 goal per 59 minutes)

It's also worth bearing in mind that Robbie Keane has scored zero goals in 258 minutes of football against teams that are not Gibraltar. If Long did that, he'd be getting a right bollocking.

Then you have to consider the other things Long brings to the table: Pace, power and aerial ability. Robbie Keane has none of these things any mroe. We sacrifice a lot of presence up front to accomodate Robbie Keane.

Robbie has been a legend for Ireland. I emphasise has. Sometimes I get the feeling that managers are picking the 35 year old Robbie Keane and expecting the 25 year old Robbie Keane.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

So you're saying we play the same style of football now as under Charlton?

Right so.

---

Not quite, but MON's stuff isn't exactly revolutionary.

Basically we have only one player with midfield technical ability and if we play him up front then there's nobody to get on the ball in our half.

Similar with Dundalk and Towell, when he's moved up behind the striker, there's a technical deficiency further back in midfield, except the other night when Towell had the energy to do it all his own and get up and down the pitch like a yoyo.

Unless McCarthy can find his personality I'd prefer if Wes's starting position is in front of our back 4.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brine3

That we need to play him, even thought he is a passenger, because he gets us important goals.

---

That's one media narrative. Another one is that he's a passenger and we can't afford to carry him. I'd say the latter was far more popular until he was dropped and the alternatives didn't do anything.

What do you all think the starting lineup will be vs Georgia?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brine3

It was a long time ago. Estonia was four years ago (and we were two up at that stage and Estonia were down to 10 and then 9 men). Kazakhstan three years ago. What has Robbie done lately?

Nobody should be in the team based on scoring a goal against Kazakhstan three years ago. If that's the bar we are setting, then Doyle should be starting every match.

Don't get me wrong, Robbie Keane has been a great player for Ireland, but we are flogging a dead horse at this stage. It's typical of Irish football really... we are constantly clinging to the glories of the past. Look at how we still think we can qualify for tournaments by "putting em under pressure" even though football has moved on.

---

look, you said his goals in those games were of no consequence. I called you on it.

Still, I'd say even at 35 he is still our best finisher and while he shouldn't be an automatic starter O'Neill was right to pick him yesterday and I think he is in with a good shout of being picked again on Monday, and deservedly so. Long has strong attributes too, as do Doyle and Walters. Walters did well last night I think.

I don't think it's a media narrative about Keane, it's just a fair call I think.

The goals per minutes stats are silly though as is the claim that someone is saying Keane is being picked because he scored against Kazakhstan 3 years ago and I think there is fair acceptance that hoofball isn't going to bring any success.

If I was the Georgian manager I'd say, press them high, press the attempts to play the ball out from the back and see how they struggle to cope.