Under-21 Squad

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Lads, we just got beaten by a team full of Serie A regulars.

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Not quite 'full' but some impressive performers in there alright. Obviously the goalkeeper is seen as the next big thing and the stats of Benassi and Berardi are seriously impressive for their age. All of the guys on loan or playing in Serie B have played little or nothing in Serie A. From midfield up they appear very strong and to be fair it usually takes a bit longer for defenders to develop anyway, especially centre backs.


Gianluigi Donnarumma (AC Milan, Serie A - Apps 22)

Andrea Conti (Virtus Lanciano on loan, Serie B)

Antonio Barreca (Cagliari on loan, Serie B)

Rolando Mandragora (Pescara on loan, Serie B)

Mattia Caldara (Cesena on loan, Serie B)

Alessio Romagnoli (AC Milan, Serie A - Apps 24)

Danilo Cataldi (Lazio, Serie A - Apps 32)

Marco Benassi (Torino, Serie A - Apps 56)

Valerio Rosseti (Cesena on loan, Serie B)

Domenico Berardi (Sassuolo, Serie A - Apps 81 Goals 37)

Gaetano Monachello (Atalanta, Serie A - Apps 7)


Subs used:

Luca Garritano (Modena on loan, Serie B)

Luca Mazzitelli (Sassuolo, Serie A - Apps 0)

Federico Ricci (Crotone, Serie B)

Conti is in Serie A this year with Atalanta.

Donnarumma is obviously the NBT. Benassi looks a cracking player. Romagnoli was signed by Milan for €25m and Berardi is likely to move for something similar this summer. He'd be in the senior squad if his goalscoring form was as good this season as last.

Byrne gave a slightly more understated interview post-match than he has done during the week: http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/jack-byrne/71334

Looking at that Italy squad, I was going to make an argument that maybe our young lads are afforded opportunities later at club level. Stick with me here...

I had a quick skim through past squads and arrived at this one which may be representative of how our under-21 squads tend to progress: http://www.fai.ie/ireland/news/king-...ith-montenegro

Aaron McCarey (Wolves)- Serial loanee but still with Wolves. His loans infer that L1 or L2 will be his level if he doesn't break into Wolves squad.
Sean McDermott (Sandnes Ulf)- Still in Norway.
Sean McGinty (Sheffield United - on-loan to Northampton)- High expectations but seemed to have disciplinary issues and has slipped down to Aldershot Town in the Conference.
Shane Duffy (Everton - on-loan to Yeovil Town)- PL footballer in the making and in the senior squad. We probably always thought he was might achieve this but it's taken longer than it could have. Maybe defenders aren't as trusted in England when they're that age?
Pierce Sweeney (Reading)- Still in their reserves.
Matt Doherty (Wolves)- Regular for Wolves and in the senior squad, at last.
Tommie Hoban (Watford)- Was very young here and could still achieve quite a lot. Might follow the career path of Duffy.
Jeff Hendrick (Derby County)- In the senior squad but needs a good run or promotion to become a PL player. Integral in the seniors though.
Jack Grealish (Aston Villa - on-loan to Notts County)- No comment.
Calum Reilly (Birmingham City)- Down at Burton in League One and not getting many games. They're going well and we've got former under 21 players Damien McCrory and Anthony O'Connor playing regularly there.
Anthony Forde (Wolves)- Regular at Walsall in L1.
Sean Murray (Watford)- Stagnated a lot. Will surely move on in the summer but will a Championship side take a punt with his past performances at that grade becoming distant memory?
Connor Smith (Watford - on-loan to Gillingham)- At AFC Wimbledon in L2. Stagnated at Watford but didn't have the game or ability under his belt that Murray did. Might carve out a good career.
Liam McAlinden (Wolves)- Serial loanee at Wolves also. Who knows how he'll go.
John Egan (Sunderland)- Falls into a bracket maybe just below Hoban. Garnering strong reviews and interest at Gillingham. A Championship move next season will tell a lot. Again, probably falls victim to issues with young centre halves.
Ken McEvoy (Tottenham)- Down at York in L2. Also stagnated at his club but might manage to rebuild his career back up to a good level. The jury is out on him.
Michael Drennan (Aston Villa - on-loan to Portsmouth)- Back in Ireland with Shamrock Rovers and has had good goalscoring streaks. Hard to know what the future holds for him. Seanie Maguire has come back for his first full season (after the half season at Dundalk) and has hit the ground running with Cork City like Drennan did last year so it is hard to tell.
Aiden O'Brien (Millwall - on-loan to Torquay United)- Important player for Millwall in L1 and hopefully can find his level at Championship and, who knows, perhaps the PL.

Not sure what I've gained from that exercise but I think it demonstrates somewhat that our players get less opportunities at PL or Championship sides at the same age. In some cases, they're not cut out at those levels and move down the ladder and stay down. Others move down and come back up to, primarily, Championship level. I don't think Irish players, for whatever reason, find their natural level as quick as our counterparts (maybe it's because they play some many other sports at a young age- a lot of lads who would have played GAA in the squad). That's probably demonstrated most vividly by the current senior squad where we have a host of late-bloomers such as Hoolahan, Long and McClean who stayed in Ireland and the likes of Whelan, Walters, Elliott, Randolph and even (but to a lesser extent) Brady who were all under 21's at PL or Championship clubs before moving down and are now almost all Premier League regulars.

Look at the uncapped and new call-ups in the squad for this week's games: Stephen Gleeson (Wolves, now Birmingham), Alan Judge (Blackburn, now Brentford) and Eunan O'Kane (Everton, now Bournemouth). All are in the second half of their 20's.

The thresholds for performance and standard levels for becoming an Irish international are obviously a lot lower for us. Furthermore, the Italian leagues are primarily full of Italian players whilst our players compete with a vast array of players of different nationalities, not to mention English players. But I think I'm right in saying that Robbie Brady and Jeff Hendrick managing to establish themselves as Irish senior players without stagnating too much at club level at their young age would make them real exceptions. I know Brady was at Man United and had to move but he did so for a decent fee and only went as far as a PL/Championship club in Hull and is quite clearly a top level player in England and will be so for a long time.

Playing the underdog card in experience or ability is not a valid reason why we don't compete at u21 level. Sweden won the 2015 competition, this year their squad is overwhelmingly from the Swedish league clubs. Denmark who have a similar level of success as Sweden, also have a home based centric squad.

Both those countries have a much higher level of success at u21 level than say France who haven't reached the last 5 finals,
yet France have a squad top heavy with very experienced French league players, not only that but they put enormous finance into their u21 set up, have a plane load of back room staff coaching observers who tag along for away games.

The smaller associations who have an equitable spread of development resources can put it up to the big time charlies at this level.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Playing the underdog card in experience or ability is not a valid reason why we don't compete at u21 level. Sweden won the 2015 competition, this year their squad is overwhelmingly from the Swedish league clubs. Denmark who have a similar level of success as Sweden, also have a home based centric squad.

Both those countries have a much higher level of success at u21 level than say France who haven't reached the last 5 finals,
yet France have a squad top heavy with very experienced French league players, not only that but they put enormous finance into their u21 set up, have a plane load of back room staff coaching observers who tag along for away games.

The smaller associations who have an equitable spread of development resources can put it up to the big time charlies at this level.

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Can't agree with your comparison in playing the cards of Sweden and Denmark.

What's the common denominator between Sweden and Denmark that you've mentioned? A majority of home-based players. We don't have a majority of home-based players because most see it as a better option to move to England. Furthermore, aren't the home-based leagues in which their players play stronger than our league here in Ireland?

I don't think your comparison sticks on these grounds.

I think the very fact that Sweden and Denmark provide an attractive domestic option for their young and senior players is exactly why they compete above their weight at youth and senior level. It's a no brainer that we lose a lot of potential success and kill talent by exporting all of our young talent at a very early age. So to compensate we try and recruit 1G and 2G foreign born players. It's a mess of a strategy and does not bode well for the future being any better or qualification becoming the rule instead of the exception.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

I think the very fact that Sweden and Denmark provide an attractive domestic option for their young and senior players is exactly why they compete above their weight at youth and senior level. It's a no brainer that we lose a lot of potential success and kill talent by exporting all of our young talent at a very early age. So to compensate we try and recruit 1G and 2G foreign born players. It's a mess of a strategy and does not bode well for the future being any better or qualification becoming the rule instead of the exception.

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I agree entirely. Until we establish an attractive domestic option then we won't be competitive at under 21 level like Sweden, Denmark and, to a higher degree, Italy.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Can't agree with your comparison in playing the cards of Sweden and Denmark.

What's the common denominator between Sweden and Denmark that you've mentioned? A majority of home-based players. We don't have a majority of home-based players because most see it as a better option to move to England. Furthermore, aren't the home-based leagues in which their players play stronger than our league here in Ireland?

I don't think your comparison sticks on these grounds.

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The leagues are different but in the first line i mentioned " Playing the underdog card in experience or ability is not a valid reason why we don't compete at u21 level"
The players we have are probably not much different in experience or ability than the players available to Sweden or Denmark, therefore the factors that are different come into the equation to explain why they have more success.
And it is interesting to note how France can repeatedly fail to qualify even though they care about succeeding whereas a team like Germany can take their foot off the pedal, according to priorities.

Text commentary of the qualifier against Slovenia: http://www.uefa.com/under21/season=2...&match=2016140
Half time, Ireland 1-0 down

stream here:

http://cricfree.tv/watch/live/sloven...live-streaming

no commentary... and few fans it seems.

Can anyone please tell me how Noel King still has a job?

Time to get a recent ex-player in there with a bit of hunger and ambition, and modern tactics.

Why a recent ex-player? Why not just whoever the best candidate is?

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Why a recent ex-player? Why not just whoever the best candidate is?

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I guess i was thinking of a Mentoring/inspirational figure with a bit of hunger, i'm just thinking of who may be possible for such a role, i'd like to see an up and coming LOI manager given a shot too maybe.
With a number of ex players doing licences recently in abbotstown, it might be an opportunity to get some return. having said that, i wouldn't mind seeing keano double job and do it either.

ultimately, i think a change is needed.

I like King but now is probably a good time to bring in somebody more progressive. I wouldn't have preconceived notions of who that might be - we're not exactly rammed with coaches who fit the description.

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Originally Posted by triggsrevenge

I guess i was thinking of a Mentoring/inspirational figure with a bit of hunger, i'm just thinking of who may be possible for such a role, i'd like to see an up and coming LOI manager given a shot too maybe.
With a number of ex players doing licences recently in abbotstown, it might be an opportunity to get some return. having said that, i wouldn't mind seeing keano double job and do it either.

ultimately, i think a change is needed.

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I agree, except the bit about Keano.

King out!!

Dunno how he's lasted this long. Total Rubbish

Article in the Sunday Independent lamenting our under 21 side and the side against Italy. Referring to our player at Braintree (Sean Long, didn't even mention his name) playing full-back lumping it to Conor Wilkinson, who is out of the team as much as he is in at Newport County. Also stated that there were only 4 Irish-born players in the side.

Sean Long didn't start. Wilkinson isn't at Newport anymore (he signed for promotion-chasing Portsmouth) and there were 4 Irish-born starters: the 2 Lenihans, Kevin O'Connor and Jack Byrne but that seems to ignore the fact that Rogers, according to Wiki, was born in America. I think his footballing education came in Ireland though. We also had a lot of injuries.

I will admit though that it's worrying when we're scouring for 1G and 2G players at League Two sides to make up our under 21 team. Connors didn't look particularly great the last night. O'Dowda, on the other hand, does look decent and has room to improve. The side was injury-stricken with a lot of important Irish and English-born players missing.

Instead of pointing out the number of Irish-born players in the recent U21 squad, why did nobody ask about the players who were omitted: http://irish-abroad.appspot.com/Blog...96461626438151

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Instead of pointing out the number of Irish-born players in the recent U21 squad, why did nobody ask about the players who were omitted: http://irish-abroad.appspot.com/Blog...96461626438151

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Good points about players not included in our underage squad and an antidote to some doom and gloom being bandied about regarding the future of the senior team off the back of some disappointing underage campaigns. I think Eamon Dunphy said that he feared for our future because he believed that Jack Byrne and Alan Browne were probably the only ones in the U-21 team who would make the step up to the senior squad. But when you look deeper at the squad (beyond the headline-makers that Dunphy sees) there's still plenty reason to think that far more than two of the current crop of players aged 19-21 will play a part in future senior squads - here are some of the players who have appeared in the current U-21 campaign:
- Ian Lawlor - like Jack Byrne, on the books for Manchester City and had a fairly successful loan spell at Bury, with seven clean sheets in fifteen appearances, including a heroic penalty shoot-out performance in the Cup (although there were a few drubbings in the other games)
- Darragh Lenihan - established himself in the Blackburn midfield and as such is already playing at the same level as Alan Browne and a number of other Irish senior internationals
- Tommie Hoban - plenty Championship experience - has had difficulty this season but if he can get back at even Championship level next season he immediately becomes a squad contender
- Josh Cullen - Talented midfielder - Made Premier League and European debuts for West Ham before going on loan to League One Bradford and establishing himself
- Callum O'Dowda - highly rated winger with over 100 appearances under his belt for Oxford united - will hopefully be playing in League One (at least) next season
- Reece Grego-Cox - Only one appearance in the League Cup for QPR's senior team this season but did break into the Premier League team last season.
- Connor DiMaio - cast aside by Sheffield United, he broke into the Chesterfield first team almost immediately and got his first professional goal
- Joshua Barrett - Has made his debut for Reading, while still being only 17, as you noted

And of course, like you mentioned there are those who didn't even appear - the Liverpool and Reading contingents, Sam Byrne and Steven Kinsella at Everton, 18-year-old Gerry McDonagh who has scored 6 times in eight appearances for Nottingham Forest's U-21s (and we could do with a young striker), Emmanuel Osadebe at Gillingham, who scored a wonder goal earlier this season, and I'm sure there are others at various academies or playing in the League of Ireland who will appear on the radar in the coming years and months.